May I ask the owners of the smaller CDs what their head systems consist of?
After some back and forth with Peggy Hall, peghall@worldnet.att.net,
who I guess is the internet expert on proper head designs, I found out why mine is somewhat less than "spring fresh".
My 1975 CD25 flushes into a holding tank OK BUT it recirculates the "fluid" from the same tank to perform the flush.
I was hoping some "magic" potion would make this "stock" system satisfactory. Peggy says "no-way".
She reports that after the clean water act, Cape Dory must have installed this minimal system as an alternate to the Porta-Potty.
I guess one of the next winter projects will, at the minimum, include a thru hull intake for clean flush water. (Or possible another tee on the cockpit/sink drain thru hull?)
Thanks
Jim
jtstull@icubed.com
Flushing the head
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Bill Goldsmith
Re: Flushing the head
Sounds like a very strange installation. I can't imagine why anyone would have installed a head and a holding tank without any thru-hulls. It has the disadvantages of a head/hose/tank system with none of the benefits. It seems that you've got a very fancy not-so-porta-pottie. Is there at least a pump-out fitting?
My CD27 clearly was re-plumbed sometime since its manufacture, but it is clear that the two seacocks (one intake, one flush) are original. The head has the option of pumping into a holding tank under the v-berth or directly overboard (outside the 3-mile limit). The holding tank can be pumped out at a station, or overboard (outside the 3-mile limit). This setup makes for alot of hoses, valves and vented loops, but it works.
What you decide to do really depends upon your usage. If you're going to be daysailing or short weekending, you might consider ripping out the head and tank and going with a porta-pottie. Before doing that I might also try the following solution: Keep one or two gallon jugs clearly marked Head Flush Water on the boat and fill with tap water. Permanently keep the flush valve on the head so it flushes out but doesn't recycle. Use the gallon jugs to fill the bowl, and flush to the holding tank. Pump out the tank as soon as you can. This way you never recirculate effluent again.
If you want to complete a real head installation you're going to have to cut one or two holes in the hull this winter, one for a smaller (1"?) seacock for intake and a larger (1.5") for outflow. Of course, you could eliminate the outflow thru-hull if you'll only be pumping out. I would not recommend teeing into the sink or cockpit drain thru-hull for either intake or outflow. For intake, you need suction, and the drain hoses would eliminate suction (unless you became creative with valves). For outflow, pumping into the sink or cockpit drains would be smelly (back to where you started) at best or unsanitary at worst. If you put in seacocks, you'll also have to install a vented loop for each seacock to prevent siphoning of water into the boat.
I might suggest you take a look at Nigel Calder's book Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual, begining page 365. Also, the West marine and BOAT/US catalogs have a good sections for developing ideas about how you want to deal with this issue.
Bill Goldsmith
Second Chance
CD27
goldy@bestweb.net
My CD27 clearly was re-plumbed sometime since its manufacture, but it is clear that the two seacocks (one intake, one flush) are original. The head has the option of pumping into a holding tank under the v-berth or directly overboard (outside the 3-mile limit). The holding tank can be pumped out at a station, or overboard (outside the 3-mile limit). This setup makes for alot of hoses, valves and vented loops, but it works.
What you decide to do really depends upon your usage. If you're going to be daysailing or short weekending, you might consider ripping out the head and tank and going with a porta-pottie. Before doing that I might also try the following solution: Keep one or two gallon jugs clearly marked Head Flush Water on the boat and fill with tap water. Permanently keep the flush valve on the head so it flushes out but doesn't recycle. Use the gallon jugs to fill the bowl, and flush to the holding tank. Pump out the tank as soon as you can. This way you never recirculate effluent again.
If you want to complete a real head installation you're going to have to cut one or two holes in the hull this winter, one for a smaller (1"?) seacock for intake and a larger (1.5") for outflow. Of course, you could eliminate the outflow thru-hull if you'll only be pumping out. I would not recommend teeing into the sink or cockpit drain thru-hull for either intake or outflow. For intake, you need suction, and the drain hoses would eliminate suction (unless you became creative with valves). For outflow, pumping into the sink or cockpit drains would be smelly (back to where you started) at best or unsanitary at worst. If you put in seacocks, you'll also have to install a vented loop for each seacock to prevent siphoning of water into the boat.
I might suggest you take a look at Nigel Calder's book Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual, begining page 365. Also, the West marine and BOAT/US catalogs have a good sections for developing ideas about how you want to deal with this issue.
Bill Goldsmith
Second Chance
CD27
Jim Stull wrote: May I ask the owners of the smaller CDs what their head systems consist of?
After some back and forth with Peggy Hall, peghall@worldnet.att.net,
who I guess is the internet expert on proper head designs, I found out why mine is somewhat less than "spring fresh".
My 1975 CD25 flushes into a holding tank OK BUT it recirculates the "fluid" from the same tank to perform the flush.
I was hoping some "magic" potion would make this "stock" system satisfactory. Peggy says "no-way".
She reports that after the clean water act, Cape Dory must have installed this minimal system as an alternate to the Porta-Potty.
I guess one of the next winter projects will, at the minimum, include a thru hull intake for clean flush water. (Or possible another tee on the cockpit/sink drain thru hull?)
Thanks
Jim
goldy@bestweb.net
-
Bruce Bett
Re: Flushing the head
Jim:
My 77 cd25 has the re-circulating holding tank you describe. I find it adiquate if not really pleasent. On the Great Lakes dumping the stuff overboard is not allowed no matter how far offshore you go!!
My little brother who also has a 77 cd25 has altered his by adding a through hull for flush water. When he did that he found that the holding tank was too small. He found a larger one that fits, replaced it and now likes his system. He sometimes lurkes on this board so perhaps he'll tell you where he got the bigger tank.
Bruce
Sostenuto CD25 #496
Bett@smtp.munet.edu
My 77 cd25 has the re-circulating holding tank you describe. I find it adiquate if not really pleasent. On the Great Lakes dumping the stuff overboard is not allowed no matter how far offshore you go!!
My little brother who also has a 77 cd25 has altered his by adding a through hull for flush water. When he did that he found that the holding tank was too small. He found a larger one that fits, replaced it and now likes his system. He sometimes lurkes on this board so perhaps he'll tell you where he got the bigger tank.
Bruce
Sostenuto CD25 #496
Jim Stull wrote: May I ask the owners of the smaller CDs what their head systems consist of?
After some back and forth with Peggy Hall, peghall@worldnet.att.net,
who I guess is the internet expert on proper head designs, I found out why mine is somewhat less than "spring fresh".
My 1975 CD25 flushes into a holding tank OK BUT it recirculates the "fluid" from the same tank to perform the flush.
I was hoping some "magic" potion would make this "stock" system satisfactory. Peggy says "no-way".
She reports that after the clean water act, Cape Dory must have installed this minimal system as an alternate to the Porta-Potty.
I guess one of the next winter projects will, at the minimum, include a thru hull intake for clean flush water. (Or possible another tee on the cockpit/sink drain thru hull?)
Thanks
Jim
Bett@smtp.munet.edu
-
Bruce Bradford
Re: Flushing the head
I just bought a CD25, with the same recirculating head system. I didn't know about the "recirculating" part until reading your remarks (still figuring out lots of previous owner stuff, and the head is not the most interisting part so far). Thanks for explaining it to me.
Now, what can we do to live with this (at least for the rest of the season)? Seems like this means frequent pumpouts at the gas pump, which means backing up the dory under power, when people are watching ...
I guess I'm wondering if the enzymes or anerobic bacteria based products would work better in this system instead of the blue stuff.
mbbradford@yahoo.com
Now, what can we do to live with this (at least for the rest of the season)? Seems like this means frequent pumpouts at the gas pump, which means backing up the dory under power, when people are watching ...
I guess I'm wondering if the enzymes or anerobic bacteria based products would work better in this system instead of the blue stuff.
mbbradford@yahoo.com