I am starting my search for my third and final sailboat. I have had a 1993 classic yachts 26 footer, currently a 1987 34 foot hunter and my last choice will be a cape dory. I will be looking at the 25, 26 and 27 models. My question for now revolves around the crazing issue. We have a 31 cd in our marina that had it pretty bad. The owner sent it to the yard for repairs. I know he had a soft cockpit floor also. Anyway it came back looking like new for 10k.
Are all cape dory models subject to this? Are there certain models or years that are better or worse? Does anyone have one without crazing? I appreciate your help as I need to get up to speed with this as I need to be realistic on what I will find. CD owners please check in. craig
shavdog@aol.com
CD Owners Please Weigh in on Gelcoat Crazing
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Clay Stalker
Re: CD Owners Please Weigh in on Gelcoat Crazing
Craig:Craig wrote: I am starting my search for my third and final sailboat. I have had a 1993 classic yachts 26 footer, currently a 1987 34 foot hunter and my last choice will be a cape dory. I will be looking at the 25, 26 and 27 models. My question for now revolves around the crazing issue. We have a 31 cd in our marina that had it pretty bad. The owner sent it to the yard for repairs. I know he had a soft cockpit floor also. Anyway it came back looking like new for 10k.
Are all cape dory models subject to this? Are there certain models or years that are better or worse? Does anyone have one without crazing? I appreciate your help as I need to get up to speed with this as I need to be realistic on what I will find. CD owners please check in. craig
There has been a lot of discussion about this so you might find some stuff in the archives. Essentially, Cape Dory tended to apply the gelcoat quite thickly and it has cracked on lots of boats. The extent to which this is a real problem is sometimes hard to tell...it certainly looks scary in some cases. I have some cracking on my foredeck where the cabin top meets the deck and various other spots around the boat. When I had her surveyed before I purchased her, no significant moisture was present there, so I hope there is not a problem. I presently use Cap'n Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure regularly and suspect that this works quite well. The fix can be real expensive if you have a soggy core, but otherwise, some folks have painted with an epoxy primer, which seals the cracks, and then overcoat with polyurethane. This also can be expensive, but not as bad as a core repair. Fortunately, what money you invest in a Cape Dory to upgrade and repair will be money well-spent. As far as the cockpit sole, Cape Dory did not seal the penetration of the tiller post and many have become soggy. This can also be an expensive repair, but I was fortunate in that the former owner did this, and did a nice job. He recored and topped it off with teak...looks nice, but probably would've cost $2-3,000. if done by a yard! I suspect that you will get a number of good folks on this board help you with this issue...it is a prevalent one with Cape Dorys. Good luck in your search! You won't be sorry.
Clay Stalker
CD27 Salsa hull #247
Bristol, R.I.
cstalker@cheshire.net
-
Barry
I went for it
I struggled with the same issue when I was looking for a 33’, every boat I looked at had some cracking in the gel coat on the deck. When I finally settled on “the” boat (1981, Mimi-III) I had 2 surveyors check the cracks, they assured me it was only in the gel, there were no other problems. After two years in NE the cracks grew – I hated to look at them. I had another boat yard check the deck, and again they said it was only the gel coat, several thousand $ to fix it.
I did it myself, and recommend you try it if you’re at all handy. I started with a belt sander and smoothed down all of the non-skid. I then used a Dremel tool to groove out all the cracks down to the glass. I filled (over filled) each crack with epoxy, then sanded smooth. In areas where I had a bunch of cracks I laid down one layer of 6oz cloth, fairing out the edges.
From there, I simply followed the 2-part epoxy deck paint recommendations. It was a lot of work, but will worth it.
I did it myself, and recommend you try it if you’re at all handy. I started with a belt sander and smoothed down all of the non-skid. I then used a Dremel tool to groove out all the cracks down to the glass. I filled (over filled) each crack with epoxy, then sanded smooth. In areas where I had a bunch of cracks I laid down one layer of 6oz cloth, fairing out the edges.
From there, I simply followed the 2-part epoxy deck paint recommendations. It was a lot of work, but will worth it.
-
Zeida
Re: CD Owners Please Weigh in on Gelcoat Crazing
Craig: the hairline cracks on the CD's are not their biggest problem... THE BLISTERS ARE! Again, some boats got them, some do not. This is your foremost concern during the survey. You really need to have the boat out of the water for at least a day. If blisters are present, they will start appearing as tiny pin holes oozing liquid. Crack them open with your fingernail. If they are prevalent, ask for a BIG reduction in price, for you will need to address this problem yearly. Again, they are basically in the keel gelcoat, but can penetrate into the glass matt and become a bad problem. And do not waste your time on anything smaller than the 27 CD, probably their best boat ever. Wishing you the best in your search. If you find the right one, you will love her forever.
Zeida
zcecil@attglobal.net
Zeida
zcecil@attglobal.net
-
Hobbster
Re: CD Owners Please Weigh in on Gelcoat Crazing
Craig: Most boats (1976-1985) will have some gelcoat cracks. I just fixed some cracks on a very good quality boat only two years old. Most cracks come from thick gelcoat. The thermal expantion is not the same for Gelcoat as it is for fiberglass (over simplified but you get the point). Over time cracks appear. Very seldom will these cracks cause a coring problem. Coring that has gone bad is not a core problem but a Builder problem. Deck hardward, etc. was not sealed as it should of been. I looked at a 1976 CD 28 last weekend. There was a core problem at the stern of the cockpit floor and one in the core on the port side do to a large chip in the deck. The balance of the boat checked out fine.
I do not worry about blisters on older boats. Most of them have some form of blistering in the hull. Boats do not sink do to blisters. Most boats with blisters have blisters about the size of a dime or less. There may be about 1,000+/- on the hull. The 28 I looked at last weekend had some blisters. Blisters are repairable. Yes it cost money. You may or may not get the cost of a blister job back when you sell your boat.
I have a '74 or '76 Ty that I have rebuilt. This boat is better then new. The cost will be about $10,000+/- when we are done including new sails. Tell me, where can you go and buy a new 19' Ty for this price? The boat will fit the new owner. He picked out the colors and it has almost been like he was having a new boat built. I say go for it. Cape Dory's hold there value and VERY NICE one's bring a very good price. Remember, a new 28' Cape Dory today would cost over $75,000.00. Always do quality work on the boat and a Cape Dory will hold it's value or increase in value. It always bothers me to see a CD that has had bad workmanship done to it.
You will enjoy a Cape Dory and the looks you get when sailing one on good shape. The best of wind and seas to you in your search.
Glen Snader
glen@hobbymarine.com
I do not worry about blisters on older boats. Most of them have some form of blistering in the hull. Boats do not sink do to blisters. Most boats with blisters have blisters about the size of a dime or less. There may be about 1,000+/- on the hull. The 28 I looked at last weekend had some blisters. Blisters are repairable. Yes it cost money. You may or may not get the cost of a blister job back when you sell your boat.
I have a '74 or '76 Ty that I have rebuilt. This boat is better then new. The cost will be about $10,000+/- when we are done including new sails. Tell me, where can you go and buy a new 19' Ty for this price? The boat will fit the new owner. He picked out the colors and it has almost been like he was having a new boat built. I say go for it. Cape Dory's hold there value and VERY NICE one's bring a very good price. Remember, a new 28' Cape Dory today would cost over $75,000.00. Always do quality work on the boat and a Cape Dory will hold it's value or increase in value. It always bothers me to see a CD that has had bad workmanship done to it.
You will enjoy a Cape Dory and the looks you get when sailing one on good shape. The best of wind and seas to you in your search.
Glen Snader
glen@hobbymarine.com
-
John R.
Re: CD Owners Please Weigh in on Gelcoat Crazing
We have a CD30 and it has some gel crazing. These small and random hairline fractures are primarily located just outboard and ahead of the coaming forward ends only in the non skid area. That means the non skid gel was apparently too hot of a mix and too thickly applied and most likely cured too quickly making it more brittle than usual. We had problems at Morgan like that for awhile and it was found the MEK was not being measured correctly. Who knows if that was CD's problem. It could be a latent problem as a result of a thermal situation such as an overly hot gel mix applied into a quite cold mold. Maybe they formulated to try and compensate for the cold.
Anyway the hairline fractures are not serious if they are indeed from a gel application that was too thick and hot and not originating from a stress related situation. Most CD's I have seen with the problem have been from the early '80's. Perhaps in time maybe some of the later CD's will develop the problem as well. Nonetheless it is quite obvious the thing to do is have the boat you are interested in inspected by someone that thoroughly understands gel crazing and it's underlying causes. That doesn't necessarily mean a surveyor understands gelcoat. It can be just as valuable if not more so if you can locate someone that is highly experienced in using gelcoat and has been working with it and glass for years.
One way or another sooner or later they need to be repaired before moisture penetrates the glass and gets to the core. This problem is probably more of a concern up north. I would think expansion and contraction from summer to winter might worsen the situation.
Most CD's that I have seen with the crazing problem have had the problem limited to being only cosmetic in nature.
Anyway the hairline fractures are not serious if they are indeed from a gel application that was too thick and hot and not originating from a stress related situation. Most CD's I have seen with the problem have been from the early '80's. Perhaps in time maybe some of the later CD's will develop the problem as well. Nonetheless it is quite obvious the thing to do is have the boat you are interested in inspected by someone that thoroughly understands gel crazing and it's underlying causes. That doesn't necessarily mean a surveyor understands gelcoat. It can be just as valuable if not more so if you can locate someone that is highly experienced in using gelcoat and has been working with it and glass for years.
One way or another sooner or later they need to be repaired before moisture penetrates the glass and gets to the core. This problem is probably more of a concern up north. I would think expansion and contraction from summer to winter might worsen the situation.
Most CD's that I have seen with the crazing problem have had the problem limited to being only cosmetic in nature.
Craig wrote: I am starting my search for my third and final sailboat. I have had a 1993 classic yachts 26 footer, currently a 1987 34 foot hunter and my last choice will be a cape dory. I will be looking at the 25, 26 and 27 models. My question for now revolves around the crazing issue. We have a 31 cd in our marina that had it pretty bad. The owner sent it to the yard for repairs. I know he had a soft cockpit floor also. Anyway it came back looking like new for 10k.
Are all cape dory models subject to this? Are there certain models or years that are better or worse? Does anyone have one without crazing? I appreciate your help as I need to get up to speed with this as I need to be realistic on what I will find. CD owners please check in. craig
-
Carl Jones
Re: I went for it
Barry,Barry wrote: I struggled with the same issue when I was looking for a 33’, every boat I looked at had some cracking in the gel coat on the deck. When I finally settled on “the” boat (1981, Mimi-III) I had 2 surveyors check the cracks, they assured me it was only in the gel, there were no other problems. After two years in NE the cracks grew – I hated to look at them. I had another boat yard check the deck, and again they said it was only the gel coat, several thousand $ to fix it.
I did it myself, and recommend you try it if you’re at all handy. I started with a belt sander and smoothed down all of the non-skid. I then used a Dremel tool to groove out all the cracks down to the glass. I filled (over filled) each crack with epoxy, then sanded smooth. In areas where I had a bunch of cracks I laid down one layer of 6oz cloth, fairing out the edges.
From there, I simply followed the 2-part epoxy deck paint recommendations. It was a lot of work, but will worth it.
My boat also has gel coat crazing in the non-skid that needs to be repaired. Probably the best approach would be to grind off the gel-coat and put new gel coat on, but that would also be the most expensive. In Don Casey's book on Hull and Deck repair, he suggests doing what you did as a practical alternative. How long has it been since you made this repair and how is it holding up? Are the cracks reappearing through the paint? Thanks.
Carl Jones
s/v Spanish Eyes, CD30 Cutter
Gulf Coast Fleet
GreatCells@aol.com