Hello all, I wondered if anyone had hints or tidbits of advice for me regarding starting the Universal 24 Hp diesel in cold weather (no glow plugs). I plan on replacing the Fram water seperator with a Racor so looking for hints on bleeding, common problems/prevention etc.
Also, any experience with the operation/maintenance of the old Benmar Autopilot? I understand it was built to military specs and that parts are available through Raytheon. Any thoughts?
Spring is almost here!
Paul Danicic
CD 33 #77
Mpls MN
nyeme001@tc.umn.edu
Call for Benmar & Universal 24 hp Advice - CD 33
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Ken Cave
Re: Call for Benmar & Universal 24 hp Advice - CD 33
Paul:
I replaced my old Racor Fuel/Water Separator with a new Racor Filter System with a primer pump and see thru bowl. They are a tad spendy, but you can change the filter, pump the fuel into the filter system, and be "on the road again" in minutes without the worry of bleeding the system! That alone is worth the price of a new unit!
Easy to install-and the only extra part (apart from the extra filters) that I purchased is a filter strap to spin off the filter. They come in different sizes as well as for different gph flows. The smallest unit is the one I purchased-a little over a hundred dollars.
Hope this helps
Ken Cave
Dragon Tale out of Anacortes WA.
bcave@whidbey.net
I replaced my old Racor Fuel/Water Separator with a new Racor Filter System with a primer pump and see thru bowl. They are a tad spendy, but you can change the filter, pump the fuel into the filter system, and be "on the road again" in minutes without the worry of bleeding the system! That alone is worth the price of a new unit!
Easy to install-and the only extra part (apart from the extra filters) that I purchased is a filter strap to spin off the filter. They come in different sizes as well as for different gph flows. The smallest unit is the one I purchased-a little over a hundred dollars.
Hope this helps
Ken Cave
Dragon Tale out of Anacortes WA.
bcave@whidbey.net
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Dennis Ward
Re: Call for Benmar & Universal 24 hp Advice - CD 33
Paul, I have a Volvo MD11C without glow plugs in my CD33. The best cold weather starting procedure I have found is this: Without the engine seacock opened (so your not pumping water into the exhaust system) select the house battery and turn the engine over for @15 seconds (throttle opened about half). Let the engine set for a minute to allow the fuel time to seal the rings and the starter time to cool. Open the engine seacock (don't forget this!!!), select your starting battery and start the engine. This works for me.Paul D. wrote: Hello all, I wondered if anyone had hints or tidbits of advice for me regarding starting the Universal 24 Hp diesel in cold weather (no glow plugs). I plan on replacing the Fram water seperator with a Racor so looking for hints on bleeding, common problems/prevention etc.
Also, any experience with the operation/maintenance of the old Benmar Autopilot? I understand it was built to military specs and that parts are available through Raytheon. Any thoughts?
Spring is almost here!
Paul Danicic
CD 33 #77
Mpls MN
Dennis Ward, Little Rock, AR
CD33 S/V WindWard Grace
dward34@aristotle.net
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M. R. Bober
Winter in AR not equal to winter in MN
Captains,
I could be wrong but...
Winter in Arkansas might be more like summer in Minnesota (than winter).
Warm wishes,
Mitchell Bober
RESPITE
CD330
Annapolis, MD
I could be wrong but...
Winter in Arkansas might be more like summer in Minnesota (than winter).
Warm wishes,
Mitchell Bober
RESPITE
CD330
Annapolis, MD
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Richard Smith
Diesel starting in cold weather
Although not mounted in a CD I had this issue with an older 12hp Yanmar. The only way I could get it going below 60 degrees was by a little squirt of diesel starting fluid.
Yes I know that many warn against doing this but the procedure was sanctioned by Yanmar in the manual. Assuming your batteries are topped up it will work.
Some people have had luck spraying WD-40 into the intake. It's rumored to have Butane in the propellant. My luck with that procedure was ZERO!
Others suggest spraying alcohol (the stuff you buy in Home Depot) into the intake. Again my experience was zero success.
Some suggest releasing the compression and cranking. Then when the engine is spinning fast release the decompression lever. That worked about 10% of the time. Forget about hand cranking. Your more likely to break your arm then start the engine.
I no longer own the boat but I would never buy another diesel powered boat with plugs.
sailnut@asan.com
Yes I know that many warn against doing this but the procedure was sanctioned by Yanmar in the manual. Assuming your batteries are topped up it will work.
Some people have had luck spraying WD-40 into the intake. It's rumored to have Butane in the propellant. My luck with that procedure was ZERO!
Others suggest spraying alcohol (the stuff you buy in Home Depot) into the intake. Again my experience was zero success.
Some suggest releasing the compression and cranking. Then when the engine is spinning fast release the decompression lever. That worked about 10% of the time. Forget about hand cranking. Your more likely to break your arm then start the engine.
I no longer own the boat but I would never buy another diesel powered boat with plugs.
sailnut@asan.com
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Joe Mac Phee
Cetec Benmar autopilot
Paul,
My 1977 Cape Dory 30 ketch has the Cetec Benmar CS21R autopilot. It has the Pilot House control (mounted on deck under the teak box for the worm gear steerer). The standard (electric) power unit is connected with chain and sprocket to the Edson steerer. The power unit is below deck. The autopilot is an analog design (not digital) with a (separate) glass plate compass. I have the compass in the port cockpit locker.
I was unaware of the parts availability from Raytheon. I have obtained parts and repair work from Weeks Electronics (Loring S. Weeks) in New Bedford, MA. I have the instruction manual and schematics for my unit. If you have any specific questions, I can try to answer and/or refer you to Loring.
Joe Mac Phee
S/V Iolanthe
CD-30/K
Bristol RI
jvmacphee@aol.com
My 1977 Cape Dory 30 ketch has the Cetec Benmar CS21R autopilot. It has the Pilot House control (mounted on deck under the teak box for the worm gear steerer). The standard (electric) power unit is connected with chain and sprocket to the Edson steerer. The power unit is below deck. The autopilot is an analog design (not digital) with a (separate) glass plate compass. I have the compass in the port cockpit locker.
I was unaware of the parts availability from Raytheon. I have obtained parts and repair work from Weeks Electronics (Loring S. Weeks) in New Bedford, MA. I have the instruction manual and schematics for my unit. If you have any specific questions, I can try to answer and/or refer you to Loring.
Joe Mac Phee
S/V Iolanthe
CD-30/K
Bristol RI
jvmacphee@aol.com
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Dennis Ward
Re: Winter in AR not equal to winter in MN
You'r right of course, we only get into the teens. I usually skip sailing when the temp drops into the 40's, unless its New Years Day!M. R. Bober wrote: Captains,
I could be wrong but...
Winter in Arkansas might be more like summer in Minnesota (than winter).
Warm wishes,
Mitchell Bober
RESPITE
CD330
Annapolis, MD
Dennis, Little Rock 23 last night 45 at 2:oopm today!
dward34@aristotle.net
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Paul D.
Re: Call for Benmar & Universal 24 hp Advice - CD 33
Ken,
Thanks. I was looking at the catalog for the two filters and was wondering about getting the pump or not. I hate bleeding diesels, though it makes me feel like I actually know something. I think that is the one I will get with the 2 micron filter and the 15 gph flow rate. Thanks for the advice.
Paul
nyeme001@tc.umn.edu
Thanks. I was looking at the catalog for the two filters and was wondering about getting the pump or not. I hate bleeding diesels, though it makes me feel like I actually know something. I think that is the one I will get with the 2 micron filter and the 15 gph flow rate. Thanks for the advice.
Paul
nyeme001@tc.umn.edu
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Ken Coit
Car Guys Solution
Click and Clack had a Puzzler like this some time ago.
Something along the lines of why it was that when the mechanic arrived and tried to start the diesel, it would simply start and, yet, the owner could not get it to start. It all had to do with the engine gaining some warmth from being turned over and the rings having a chance to seal tight with fuel resulting in better compression. The mechanic always insisted that the owner not try it while he was coming, ostensibly becase he didn't want to have to deal with a dead battery, but probably he didn't want the owner to discover the trick.
It might even work in MN.
Where do you sail that 33 in AR? We have many friends in the LR and Fayetteville areas.
Ken Coit
CD/36 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC
parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com
Something along the lines of why it was that when the mechanic arrived and tried to start the diesel, it would simply start and, yet, the owner could not get it to start. It all had to do with the engine gaining some warmth from being turned over and the rings having a chance to seal tight with fuel resulting in better compression. The mechanic always insisted that the owner not try it while he was coming, ostensibly becase he didn't want to have to deal with a dead battery, but probably he didn't want the owner to discover the trick.
It might even work in MN.
Where do you sail that 33 in AR? We have many friends in the LR and Fayetteville areas.
Ken Coit
CD/36 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC
Dennis Ward wrote:Paul, I have a Volvo MD11C without glow plugs in my CD33. The best cold weather starting procedure I have found is this: Without the engine seacock opened (so your not pumping water into the exhaust system) select the house battery and turn the engine over for @15 seconds (throttle opened about half). Let the engine set for a minute to allow the fuel time to seal the rings and the starter time to cool. Open the engine seacock (don't forget this!!!), select your starting battery and start the engine. This works for me.Paul D. wrote: Hello all, I wondered if anyone had hints or tidbits of advice for me regarding starting the Universal 24 Hp diesel in cold weather (no glow plugs). I plan on replacing the Fram water seperator with a Racor so looking for hints on bleeding, common problems/prevention etc.
Also, any experience with the operation/maintenance of the old Benmar Autopilot? I understand it was built to military specs and that parts are available through Raytheon. Any thoughts?
Spring is almost here!
Paul Danicic
CD 33 #77
Mpls MN
Dennis Ward, Little Rock, AR
CD33 S/V WindWard Grace
parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Cold Starting Tips from a fellow frozen sailor..
Hi Paul,
What we use up on Superior, in April or May when it's in the 30's to 40's out, is to simply advance the throttle as you crank it over. It will fire eventually on one cylinder then the rest, so retard the throttle as the engine continues to come alive.
There are some caveats about this technique, that you must be wary of. If you crank a lot of fuel into the engine, it can wash the rings free of lubrication, which is not good. Also, excessive cranking is likely to fill your exhaust system with water, overflowing into the engine, flooding the cylinders with water..and that is serious. Again, use caution or remove the drain plug on the waterlift muffler. Also, the starter will heat up, so provide periods of cooling off if heavy cranking is involved. So be sensitive to these dangers if you need to crank for long periods. Long term, get the engine checked out.
We also have no glow plug on our Volvo MD7B, so the engine is dead cold when we use this method. Also, the engine is recently rebuilt (400 hrs. ago).
Previous to the rebuild, we had poor compression and many other small irritations with the engine, which made cold weather starting very hard. Tricks that we found useful: Flywheel starting, where the decompression lever is activated and the engine cranked for 3-5 sec, then the decompression lever is shut quickly and the throttle is slowly advanced until the engine starts to fire.
..Or, if this fails, allow the engine to sit for 5 minutes and absorb the heat generated in the past start attempt. Repeat the same procedure entirely.
In all cases:
**Use your starting battery -not the house battery unless the starting bank is depleted**
The reason here is that the starting battery has a higher instantaneous current ability, so will spin the starter about 5-10% faster..and it is noticeable as higher compression which generates additional heat that leads to the engine firing faster.
**WD40 no longer will start a diesel engine as it used to**
The reason is that they have taken propane out as the propellant. This happened about 2-3 years ago I believe. Formerly, it was a great starter fluid for diesels.
**Diesels need three things to run well...Clean Air, Clean Fuel, Sufficient Heat**
There is no substitute for clean fuel or air, so these systems must be in top order. Sufficient heat can be augmented by blowing warm air into the air intake manifold as the engine is cranked over. Along with the other tricks, this should get it going for you.
Contact me via e-mail Paul, if you think the engine needs a rebuild or other major service. I know (well) a great german mechanic (owns our marina)who is a genius with diesels, and rebuilds 20-30 a year.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Sailing the Apostle Islands of Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
What we use up on Superior, in April or May when it's in the 30's to 40's out, is to simply advance the throttle as you crank it over. It will fire eventually on one cylinder then the rest, so retard the throttle as the engine continues to come alive.
There are some caveats about this technique, that you must be wary of. If you crank a lot of fuel into the engine, it can wash the rings free of lubrication, which is not good. Also, excessive cranking is likely to fill your exhaust system with water, overflowing into the engine, flooding the cylinders with water..and that is serious. Again, use caution or remove the drain plug on the waterlift muffler. Also, the starter will heat up, so provide periods of cooling off if heavy cranking is involved. So be sensitive to these dangers if you need to crank for long periods. Long term, get the engine checked out.
We also have no glow plug on our Volvo MD7B, so the engine is dead cold when we use this method. Also, the engine is recently rebuilt (400 hrs. ago).
Previous to the rebuild, we had poor compression and many other small irritations with the engine, which made cold weather starting very hard. Tricks that we found useful: Flywheel starting, where the decompression lever is activated and the engine cranked for 3-5 sec, then the decompression lever is shut quickly and the throttle is slowly advanced until the engine starts to fire.
..Or, if this fails, allow the engine to sit for 5 minutes and absorb the heat generated in the past start attempt. Repeat the same procedure entirely.
In all cases:
**Use your starting battery -not the house battery unless the starting bank is depleted**
The reason here is that the starting battery has a higher instantaneous current ability, so will spin the starter about 5-10% faster..and it is noticeable as higher compression which generates additional heat that leads to the engine firing faster.
**WD40 no longer will start a diesel engine as it used to**
The reason is that they have taken propane out as the propellant. This happened about 2-3 years ago I believe. Formerly, it was a great starter fluid for diesels.
**Diesels need three things to run well...Clean Air, Clean Fuel, Sufficient Heat**
There is no substitute for clean fuel or air, so these systems must be in top order. Sufficient heat can be augmented by blowing warm air into the air intake manifold as the engine is cranked over. Along with the other tricks, this should get it going for you.
Contact me via e-mail Paul, if you think the engine needs a rebuild or other major service. I know (well) a great german mechanic (owns our marina)who is a genius with diesels, and rebuilds 20-30 a year.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Sailing the Apostle Islands of Lake Superior
Paul D. wrote: Hello all, I wondered if anyone had hints or tidbits of advice for me regarding starting the Universal 24 Hp diesel in cold weather (no glow plugs). I plan on replacing the Fram water seperator with a Racor so looking for hints on bleeding, common problems/prevention etc.
Also, any experience with the operation/maintenance of the old Benmar Autopilot? I understand it was built to military specs and that parts are available through Raytheon. Any thoughts?
Spring is almost here!
Paul Danicic
CD 33 #77
Mpls MN
demers@sgi.com
-
sylvia mcchesney
Re: Cetec Benmar autopilot
we have cetec benmar 21 do you know where we can get user manual?Joe Mac Phee wrote: Paul,
Joe Mac Phee wrote: My 1977 Cape Dory 30 ketch has the Cetec Benmar CS21R autopilot. It has the Pilot House control (mounted on deck under the teak box for the worm gear steerer). The standard (electric) power unit is connected with chain and sprocket to the Edson steerer. The power unit is below deck. The autopilot is an analog design (not digital) with a (separate) glass plate compass. I have the compass in the port cockpit locker.
I was unaware of the parts availability from Raytheon. I have obtained parts and repair work from Weeks Electronics (Loring S. Weeks) in New Bedford, MA. I have the instruction manual and schematics for my unit. If you have any specific questions, I can try to answer and/or refer you to Loring.
Joe Mac Phee
S/V Iolanthe
CD-30/K
Bristol RI
elsid@warwick.net