Florida

[Bob Herrick]

We're beginning to explore potential retirement sites--or at least a place to winter and sail when the season ends on Lake Michigan. We really ought to look at Florida but there appear to be a zillion coastal places to live and another zillion marinas nearby--a daunting task. Before launching an exhaustive internet search what suggestions might you Floridians or winter transplants have for nice sailing areas?

Bob Herrick
CD Ty Senior



rherrick01@earthlink.net

[Jack Jo Chamberlain]

Bob, you can't beat the Chesapeake Bay and its rivers for great cruising and exploring. You go right through it on your way to Florida. We have lived here, on the Rappahannock River, just 12 miles from the bay, for 10 years. We know folks from Australia who have stayed here for over two years, and there's no sign they're leaving. Good hunting.



jchamber@crosslink.net

[Bob B]

The same is true for the sounds of North Carolina. Great sailing, little tide effect and plenty of coves and cruising destinations. We've sailed year round and spent much of the time with a reef in the main. Check out Oriental (more sailboats than people), New Bern, the Outer Banks, or Washington, NC. Also, it is just a day away from the Chesapeake through the canal.

Bob B.



BundyR@aol.com

[John R.]

I've been living on Florida's west coast for 20 years. Sailing on the west coast is interesting to say the least. It is very shallow, lots of shoaling, many shifting. Obviously there is always the tropical weather threat during 6 months of the year, sometimes even longer. The Gulf water on this coast is not clear like around Miami or the Keys. Marinas are crowded as to be expected. Some marinas have waiting lists. It is far easier to secure a slip in the summer than in the winter. It is best to have a home or condo on a canal or basin with the boat docked at your back door (my situation). Winds are extremely light in the summer months until the advent of late day thunderstorms (set your watch by them). During winter months and we get weather fronts that dip down and scoot across from the northern Gulf states bringing us good consistent sailing breezes. In the winter you can make long N-S reaches due to westerlies. Uncountable points of interest and ports of call. The Keys obviously can be crowded. Crossing "the ditch" is a nice and interesting trip from the west to east coast. St. Pete, Clearwater, Sarasota, Tampa area is a wonderful place to sail. Ft.Myers, Sanibel, Captiva, Charlotte Harbor/Boca Grande is a nice area also, but different. Then further south you get to Naples, Marco, Everglades City which is even different yet. I've lived in both the St. Pete area (Treasure Island) and in Ft. Myers area (currently) and I prefer the St. Pete area from a sailing perspective because of generally deeper water and a better intercoastal. There is far more to do in the greater Tampa Bay area.

It gets hot here in the summer (some would say that is an understatement). Some people love it and some hate it. The heat, moisture and sun is hard on a boat down here. Maintenance is quite high. Mildew is a constant battle, cleaning is a constant job during the summer months (in the heat, makes it laborious). Storm preperation is a lot of hard work in the heat of the summer and it gets worse during the approach of a tropical system. Storm preperation is very under estimated by people that come down from up north. It is a hell of a lot of work in 90+ heat but must be done, many simply don't bother making it worse for the rest of us.

Doing basic maintenance chores like repainting, varnishing is best done in the winter months. Below deck maintenance is tough during the hot summer months unless you have A/C on board. I remember times when it was 140 below deck servicing customers boats. Very difficult conditions to work in, even doing minor maintenance. Summer humidity levels make it difficult for finishes like paints and varnishes to cure unless they are two part systems. Our very strong sun is hard on running rigging, plastic cowls, or anything made of plastic. Heavy rains will locate the tiniest leak.

You have to think "different" when you come down here. Everything has to be done differently regarding your boat. The heat and moisture cause all sorts of problems when storing items. Things melt, rust, mildew, rot. Many things you do up north and products you use simply can't be done or used down here. It's a long learning curve in adapting to this climate. People that only visit during the winter get the wrong impression and think how wonderful it would be to live here year round. It is wonderful but there are some big changes you have to make in ones style of living compared to up north.

Back to sailing...... You want to keep the draft of a boat to a minimum. Best not to be over 4.5' max, even at that your navigational areas are quite limited. That's why many folks have shoal keel centerboard designed boats. I think they are a maintenance headache. CD's of course don't fall into that category. Rig height is a major consideration due to bridges on the intercoastal waterways. Refer to charts for any particular areas bridge restrictions. Facilities for diesel, stores are everywhere down here, pump out stations are not plentiful but they are around. Most marina facilities are pretty good, some are lousy. Consult cruising guides for overview. Many boaters here are not savy when it comes to seamanship, too many tourists. There is plenty of patrol by the marine patrol, local municipalities and coast guard that try and stay on top of them. You still must stay alert especially in the intercoastal. On the other hand there are many highly experienced sailors and boaters down here that are friendly and helpful if the need arises. Marina and slip rates are cheaper here than up north. DIY yards are getting scarce down here due to insurance regulations and EPA constraints. The ones that are around are getting crowded and are becoming more costly.

In summary.........I don't think retirement here is what it used to be say back in the 70's or 80's. Costs are higher, more people, less space, more rush, more commercialism, more development, more boats. You get the idea, simply not what it used to be, not even like ten years ago. It's changed big time. It was wonderful in the 80's. If you are just going to cruise you would be quite happy. If you want to move here and live a quiet laid back life you better think about central Florida rather than coastal. Hope this info helps a bit.

( : We're beginning to explore potential retirement sites--or at least a place to winter and sail when the season ends on Lake Michigan. We really ought to look at Florida but there appear to be a zillion coastal places to live and another zillion marinas nearby--a daunting task. Before launching an exhaustive internet search what suggestions might you Floridians or winter transplants have for nice sailing areas?

Bob Herrick
CD Ty Senior

[Clay Stalker]

I've been living on Florida's west coast for 20 years. Sailing on the west coast is interesting to say the least. It is very shallow, lots of shoaling, many shifting. Obviously there is always the tropical weather threat during 6 months of the year, sometimes even longer. The Gulf water on this coast is not clear like around Miami or the Keys. Marinas are crowded as to be expected. Some marinas have waiting lists. It is far easier to secure a slip in the summer than in the winter. It is best to have a home or condo on a canal or basin with the boat docked at your back door (my situation). Winds are extremely light in the summer months until the advent of late day thunderstorms (set your watch by them). During winter months and we get weather fronts that dip down and scoot across from the northern Gulf states bringing us good consistent sailing breezes. In the winter you can make long N-S reaches due to westerlies. Uncountable points of interest and ports of call. The Keys obviously can be crowded. Crossing "the ditch" is a nice and interesting trip from the west to east coast. St. Pete, Clearwater, Sarasota, Tampa area is a wonderful place to sail. Ft.Myers, Sanibel, Captiva, Charlotte Harbor/Boca Grande is a nice area also, but different. Then further south you get to Naples, Marco, Everglades City which is even different yet. I've lived in both the St. Pete area (Treasure Island) and in Ft. Myers area (currently) and I prefer the St. Pete area from a sailing perspective because of generally deeper water and a better intercoastal. There is far more to do in the greater Tampa Bay area.

It gets hot here in the summer (some would say that is an understatement). Some people love it and some hate it. The heat, moisture and sun is hard on a boat down here. Maintenance is quite high. Mildew is a constant battle, cleaning is a constant job during the summer months (in the heat, makes it laborious). Storm preperation is a lot of hard work in the heat of the summer and it gets worse during the approach of a tropical system. Storm preperation is very under estimated by people that come down from up north. It is a hell of a lot of work in 90+ heat but must be done, many simply don't bother making it worse for the rest of us.

Doing basic maintenance chores like repainting, varnishing is best done in the winter months. Below deck maintenance is tough during the hot summer months unless you have A/C on board. I remember times when it was 140 below deck servicing customers boats. Very difficult conditions to work in, even doing minor maintenance. Summer humidity levels make it difficult for finishes like paints and varnishes to cure unless they are two part systems. Our very strong sun is hard on running rigging, plastic cowls, or anything made of plastic. Heavy rains will locate the tiniest leak.

You have to think "different" when you come down here. Everything has to be done differently regarding your boat. The heat and moisture cause all sorts of problems when storing items. Things melt, rust, mildew, rot. Many things you do up north and products you use simply can't be done or used down here. It's a long learning curve in adapting to this climate. People that only visit during the winter get the wrong impression and think how wonderful it would be to live here year round. It is wonderful but there are some big changes you have to make in ones style of living compared to up north.

Back to sailing...... You want to keep the draft of a boat to a minimum. Best not to be over 4.5' max, even at that your navigational areas are quite limited. That's why many folks have shoal keel centerboard designed boats. I think they are a maintenance headache. CD's of course don't fall into that category. Rig height is a major consideration due to bridges on the intercoastal waterways. Refer to charts for any particular areas bridge restrictions. Facilities for diesel, stores are everywhere down here, pump out stations are not plentiful but they are around. Most marina facilities are pretty good, some are lousy. Consult cruising guides for overview. Many boaters here are not savy when it comes to seamanship, too many tourists. There is plenty of patrol by the marine patrol, local municipalities and coast guard that try and stay on top of them. You still must stay alert especially in the intercoastal. On the other hand there are many highly experienced sailors and boaters down here that are friendly and helpful if the need arises. Marina and slip rates are cheaper here than up north. DIY yards are getting scarce down here due to insurance regulations and EPA constraints. The ones that are around are getting crowded and are becoming more costly.

In summary.........I don't think retirement here is what it used to be say back in the 70's or 80's. Costs are higher, more people, less space, more rush, more commercialism, more development, more boats. You get the idea, simply not what it used to be, not even like ten years ago. It's changed big time. It was wonderful in the 80's. If you are just going to cruise you would be quite happy. If you want to move here and live a quiet laid back life you better think about central Florida rather than coastal. Hope this info helps a bit.

( : We're beginning to explore potential retirement sites--or at least a place to winter and sail when the season ends on Lake Michigan. We really ought to look at Florida but there appear to be a zillion coastal places to live and another zillion marinas nearby--a daunting task. Before launching an exhaustive internet search what suggestions might you Floridians or winter transplants have for nice sailing areas?

Bob Herrick
CD Ty Senior

You may not win the Florida Bureau of Tourism Award of the Year, but I appreciate your very accurate, balanced, and unbiased portrayal of your area. This type of candid information is what makes this board so valuable....some folks just sugar-coat everything without the other side to consider. Thanks for taking the time to write your narrative.

Clay Stalker



cstalker@cheshire.net

[Eric]

I moved to the St. Pete area from 1992 through 1997 and gave up sailing entirely during that time. It's the only time in 25 years when I was not sailing almost every weekend. Why? The weather was too hot/no wind most of the year. The coastline was simply boring as heck to my New England eyes and the sailors I met didn't seem to know the first thing about the water, safety, boating or much of anything you would want near the water. I won't even get into the constant buzz of jet skis and drunken speed-boaters/para-sailors and other insects of the sea.

Just one person's experience. I'm sure others see it differently.

I've been living on Florida's west coast for 20 years. Sailing on the west coast is interesting to say the least. It is very shallow, lots of shoaling, many shifting. Obviously there is always the tropical weather threat during 6 months of the year, sometimes even longer. The Gulf water on this coast is not clear like around Miami or the Keys. Marinas are crowded as to be expected. Some marinas have waiting lists. It is far easier to secure a slip in the summer than in the winter. It is best to have a home or condo on a canal or basin with the boat docked at your back door (my situation). Winds are extremely light in the summer months until the advent of late day thunderstorms (set your watch by them). During winter months and we get weather fronts that dip down and scoot across from the northern Gulf states bringing us good consistent sailing breezes. In the winter you can make long N-S reaches due to westerlies. Uncountable points of interest and ports of call. The Keys obviously can be crowded. Crossing "the ditch" is a nice and interesting trip from the west to east coast. St. Pete, Clearwater, Sarasota, Tampa area is a wonderful place to sail. Ft.Myers, Sanibel, Captiva, Charlotte Harbor/Boca Grande is a nice area also, but different. Then further south you get to Naples, Marco, Everglades City which is even different yet. I've lived in both the St. Pete area (Treasure Island) and in Ft. Myers area (currently) and I prefer the St. Pete area from a sailing perspective because of generally deeper water and a better intercoastal. There is far more to do in the greater Tampa Bay area.

It gets hot here in the summer (some would say that is an understatement). Some people love it and some hate it. The heat, moisture and sun is hard on a boat down here. Maintenance is quite high. Mildew is a constant battle, cleaning is a constant job during the summer months (in the heat, makes it laborious). Storm preperation is a lot of hard work in the heat of the summer and it gets worse during the approach of a tropical system. Storm preperation is very under estimated by people that come down from up north. It is a hell of a lot of work in 90+ heat but must be done, many simply don't bother making it worse for the rest of us.

Doing basic maintenance chores like repainting, varnishing is best done in the winter months. Below deck maintenance is tough during the hot summer months unless you have A/C on board. I remember times when it was 140 below deck servicing customers boats. Very difficult conditions to work in, even doing minor maintenance. Summer humidity levels make it difficult for finishes like paints and varnishes to cure unless they are two part systems. Our very strong sun is hard on running rigging, plastic cowls, or anything made of plastic. Heavy rains will locate the tiniest leak.

You have to think "different" when you come down here. Everything has to be done differently regarding your boat. The heat and moisture cause all sorts of problems when storing items. Things melt, rust, mildew, rot. Many things you do up north and products you use simply can't be done or used down here. It's a long learning curve in adapting to this climate. People that only visit during the winter get the wrong impression and think how wonderful it would be to live here year round. It is wonderful but there are some big changes you have to make in ones style of living compared to up north.

Back to sailing...... You want to keep the draft of a boat to a minimum. Best not to be over 4.5' max, even at that your navigational areas are quite limited. That's why many folks have shoal keel centerboard designed boats. I think they are a maintenance headache. CD's of course don't fall into that category. Rig height is a major consideration due to bridges on the intercoastal waterways. Refer to charts for any particular areas bridge restrictions. Facilities for diesel, stores are everywhere down here, pump out stations are not plentiful but they are around. Most marina facilities are pretty good, some are lousy. Consult cruising guides for overview. Many boaters here are not savy when it comes to seamanship, too many tourists. There is plenty of patrol by the marine patrol, local municipalities and coast guard that try and stay on top of them. You still must stay alert especially in the intercoastal. On the other hand there are many highly experienced sailors and boaters down here that are friendly and helpful if the need arises. Marina and slip rates are cheaper here than up north. DIY yards are getting scarce down here due to insurance regulations and EPA constraints. The ones that are around are getting crowded and are becoming more costly.

In summary.........I don't think retirement here is what it used to be say back in the 70's or 80's. Costs are higher, more people, less space, more rush, more commercialism, more development, more boats. You get the idea, simply not what it used to be, not even like ten years ago. It's changed big time. It was wonderful in the 80's. If you are just going to cruise you would be quite happy. If you want to move here and live a quiet laid back life you better think about central Florida rather than coastal. Hope this info helps a bit.

( : We're beginning to explore potential retirement sites--or at least a place to winter and sail when the season ends on Lake Michigan. We really ought to look at Florida but there appear to be a zillion coastal places to live and another zillion marinas nearby--a daunting task. Before launching an exhaustive internet search what suggestions might you Floridians or winter transplants have for nice sailing areas?

Bob Herrick
CD Ty Senior

You may not win the Florida Bureau of Tourism Award of the Year, but I appreciate your very accurate, balanced, and unbiased portrayal of your area. This type of candid information is what makes this board so valuable....some folks just sugar-coat everything without the other side to consider. Thanks for taking the time to write your narrative.

Clay Stalker

[Boyd]

Hi Bob...

I have lived in Fort Lauderdale for over 20 years and have been sailing here about 15. First I had a trailer sailer in my drive way then graduated to a CD 30 MkII which I kept behind someone elses house and paid rent on the dock. It was about $250 per month and way up river (2 1/2 hours to the ocean). The trip up middle river is nice though if you avoid the high traffic times like sunday afternoon. I bought a waterfront house that I keep Tern behind. Its expensive. The house and taxes (they rape the waterfront homeowners) are quite high. But I figured the dock rent goes to my mortgage now not someone elses. I am about 1 1/2 hours to the ocean out Port Everglades. Its about 6 hours to Miami and Biscayne bay either on the outside or down the ditch.

Like every place there is much to not like about this area and much to like. I think its all a trade. This area is dominated by the big dollar powerboat crowd.

Dock space to rent is fairly available especially if you are ok being behind someones house. The bigger docks on deeper waters get premium prices. The number of boat yards is limited and they are sharks. Seems like they think we are all part of the more money than brains crowd. There are so many boaters around here that have mega bucks that the marine industry is busy chasing the quick and easy stupid money boaters. Us sailboat types have a hard time getting services at reasonable prices. There are not many do it yourself yards.

Bay sailing and the northern keys are great most of the time. The winters are harder to sail because the fronts always come on the weekends. The weather can be down right rough at times. If you are retired then it would be easier. Today wind is east 10-15 with seas 3-5 higher in the gulf. Pretty ok sailing. Summer (May to September) is pretty consistant winds SE 10-15 or less and seas 2-4 or less. Except when a Hurricane or other tropical storm is passing. Hurricanes or lesser events occur frequently and are a source of concern. I live up river a ways and feel pretty protected. Fruther east around the intercoastal its a good idea to have another place for your boat if a real hurricane drops by.

Winds here are always more than the West coast. The humidity is also brutal but the wind helps diminish its impact somewhat. I dont do cold weather so I am happy when its hot. Winter here is like eternal summer, pleasant and dryer. We have bugs all year long.

The keys are good to cruise also. But marina space is quite limited and expensive.

Then we have the Bahamas...12 to 18 hours to sail to Bimini. what an adventure to cross over and spend time there. Almost infinite places to sail, dive, fish etc. But its blue water sailing to get there.

The east coast is mostly populated by transplanted New York, NJ,north easterners. I am from the midwest and feel out of place here a lot. I have always been more comfortable with the people on the west coast who are from the midwest.

I dont know much about a TY senior but sailing out of Ft. Laud. is really open ocean stuff especially on a day with some wind and seas. You may find you would like a bigger boat. If you sail in Biscayne bay then I think the smaller boat would be fine. The water gets pretty skinny in the bay and keys. I used to sail a Hunter 23 and although I never felt unsafe in it I never went out on rough days. My CD30 MkII got me to Miami in 6-9 ft. seas and 25kt winds one night. It was a wild ride and I had some sick crew. But not uncommon conditions for winter here.

I draw 4.5' and have been aground in the Bay. There is a lot of water there that is less than 4'. The Bahamas are pretty much the same. Lots of skinny water.

If you would like to talk more just e-mail me. If you are in the area I would be happy to show you around or go sailing.

Good luck on your search.

Boyd

We're beginning to explore potential retirement sites--or at least a place to winter and sail when the season ends on Lake Michigan. We really ought to look at Florida but there appear to be a zillion coastal places to live and another zillion marinas nearby--a daunting task. Before launching an exhaustive internet search what suggestions might you Floridians or winter transplants have for nice sailing areas?

Bob Herrick
CD Ty Senior

tern30@aol.com

[Paul]

Florida is a good choice, especially Tampa. I sail mainly in Tampa Bay. The summer can have quickly changing conditions due to the sea breezes from two sides ( Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico). But the weather here in the fall, winter, spring is great.
Areas to avoid if you don't like crowds would be the beach areas/St. Pete. Tampa is located on the Bay as opposed to open Gulf. Protected sailing almost any time. Summer brings informal races from the two yacht clubs in town.
Being a Realtor in the city, I find many water front properties to be very affordable. There are lots of good homes with deep water canals, no bridges, and either bay or gulf access. And with no state income tax, not a bad place to call home.
Hope this gives you a new perspective of Florida.
And , yes, I too am originally from "The North"



Einselen@aol.com

[Mario]

We're beginning to explore potential retirement sites--or at least a place to winter and sail when the season ends on Lake Michigan. We really ought to look at Florida but there appear to be a zillion coastal places to live and another zillion marinas nearby--a daunting task. Before launching an exhaustive internet search what suggestions might you Floridians or winter transplants have for nice sailing areas?

Bob Herrick
CD Ty Senior

We have some marina-mates who divide their time between Florida in the cold months and the Chesapeake Bay in the warm months. Sort of water snowbirds. It does create some logistical issues, but being retired they have all the time they need to manage them.

Mario



capedory252@aol.com

[Larry DeMers]

What do you consider affordable? For instance a 2 or 3 BR smaller retirement home in the 1200 sqft. category with a normal sized yard and nothing special about it..but maybe on one of the rivers that would allow a small dock for a 30 ft Cape Dory to reside at.

Larry DeMers

Florida is a good choice, especially Tampa. I sail mainly in Tampa Bay. The summer can have quickly changing conditions due to the sea breezes from two sides ( Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico). But the weather here in the fall, winter, spring is great.
Areas to avoid if you don't like crowds would be the beach areas/St. Pete. Tampa is located on the Bay as opposed to open Gulf. Protected sailing almost any time. Summer brings informal races from the two yacht clubs in town.
Being a Realtor in the city, I find many water front properties to be very affordable. There are lots of good homes with deep water canals, no bridges, and either bay or gulf access. And with no state income tax, not a bad place to call home.
Hope this gives you a new perspective of Florida.
And , yes, I too am originally from "The North"

demers@sgi.com

[John R.]

Larry,

I'm not a realtor (I guesss thats a blessing), but I have seen a lot of waterfront properties in my over 20 years of living on Florida's west coast and having spent a lot of time always looking at properties.

Your question is difficult because it depends on so many factors regarding area, waterway etc.,.

Any riverfront like you mention is going to be higher $$ because of the view those properties usually present. Secondly, that is not a good place to dock your CD30, too much boat traffic creating wakes and absolutely no storm protection. A canal is what you need to consider.....best if it is a dead end canal, mean high water height at least several feet below the residence slab (flood elevation). My house is 8' above mean high water in the canal. That's a nice cushion in the event of a hurricane, doesn't help the boat much though! Narrow canals afford more protection for a boat then broad canals. Although they can make manuvering a little tighter. My canal is 85' across and I also have a CD30 as you know. You want more than a small dock (as you mentioned) because of potential hurricane threat and you will need deeply set storm pilings to be able to tie to in keeping the boat away from the dock in event of a storm. There neds to be plenty of space between the boat and piling, and dock location so storm lines with plenty of scope can be utilized to compensate for high storm tides and surge. Don't overlook those all important points! best to find a property that already has the docking you need in place, new permits, impact fees, codes are terrible anymore. The enviroment is the primary concern down here anymore so any construction that affects the waterways is highly scrutinized. Better to find stuff that is grandfathered in or have deeeeeeep pockets!

If you looked for a property in my locale (Ft.Myers area) that is small and basic, no pool, single garage or carport, 2 Bdrm, 1 bth, older home on a direct access canal with no bridges leading to the river which leads to the open Gulf you would be in the roughly $109,000 and up category dependent on the particular property. It was a whole different story a few years ago. The land alone on a canal starts in the area of $45k and up and that's a good price. When I first moved here you could buy these properties for less then 10k, those days are long gone.

As of 01/02 there is a new code going into effect requiring all new homes to be fitted with hurricane shutters and other storm code improvements of one type or another and that is going to add considerably to a new house, many thousands of $$. Right now there is a building boom here to try and beat the new code requirements.

There are still some older home (they are better built) bargains to be found down here if a person is willing to do some work. Properties easily become neglected here because of the high maintenance, that along with inheritances that are never used, foreclosures, etc., creates some good deals if you look around. St. Pete / Tampa area is going to be more expensive because of the more urban settings and far higher taxes. Tampa is prone to flooding, not a good place to live on a canal in my opinion. Tampa Bay piles up at the north end of the bay when tropical systems approach from the SW, S, SE. Downtown St. Pete area is also vulnerable that way. Charlotte Harbor in SW Florida just north of me is also susceptible in that manner.

You may want to consider a condo (not cheap either), prefab housing (lots of those on suitable canals), renting.

Drop me an e-mail if I can be of any help with more info.

What do you consider affordable? For instance a 2 or 3 BR smaller retirement home in the 1200 sqft. category with a normal sized yard and nothing special about it..but maybe on one of the rivers that would allow a small dock for a 30 ft Cape Dory to reside at.

Larry DeMers

Florida is a good choice, especially Tampa. I sail mainly in Tampa Bay. The summer can have quickly changing conditions due to the sea breezes from two sides ( Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico). But the weather here in the fall, winter, spring is great.
Areas to avoid if you don't like crowds would be the beach areas/St. Pete. Tampa is located on the Bay as opposed to open Gulf. Protected sailing almost any time. Summer brings informal races from the two yacht clubs in town.
Being a Realtor in the city, I find many water front properties to be very affordable. There are lots of good homes with deep water canals, no bridges, and either bay or gulf access. And with no state income tax, not a bad place to call home.
Hope this gives you a new perspective of Florida.
And , yes, I too am originally from "The North"

[Larry DeMers]

John,

Wow..thanks for the detailed help in deciding where 'retirement', should it happen, could find us living. Ft.Meyers is a nice place..grandparents used to go there a lot in the winter and loved it. How is the weather compared say to Miami or West Palm? The humidity seems to be omnipresent all over Florida..is that true? I have lived in Hollywood and Fort Lauderdale while doing a big system install a while back, and in West Palm Beach for the same reason. How do you work aroundt he humidity and temps..or do you just get used to them?
I suspect that your weather is a bit nicer in Ft. Meyers Beach than the more southern towns. True?
It may be time to visit your area during a winter vacation sometime..

Thanks for the time and thought you putinto this ..I *know* what it took to write that piece.

Thanks John,

Larry

Larry,

I'm not a realtor (I guesss thats a blessing), but I have seen a lot of waterfront properties in my over 20 years of living on Florida's west coast and having spent a lot of time always looking at properties.

Your question is difficult because it depends on so many factors regarding area, waterway etc.,.

Any riverfront like you mention is going to be higher $$ because of the view those properties usually present. Secondly, that is not a good place to dock your CD30, too much boat traffic creating wakes and absolutely no storm protection. A canal is what you need to consider.....best if it is a dead end canal, mean high water height at least several feet below the residence slab (flood elevation). My house is 8' above mean high water in the canal. That's a nice cushion in the event of a hurricane, doesn't help the boat much though! Narrow canals afford more protection for a boat then broad canals. Although they can make manuvering a little tighter. My canal is 85' across and I also have a CD30 as you know. You want more than a small dock (as you mentioned) because of potential hurricane threat and you will need deeply set storm pilings to be able to tie to in keeping the boat away from the dock in event of a storm. There neds to be plenty of space between the boat and piling, and dock location so storm lines with plenty of scope can be utilized to compensate for high storm tides and surge. Don't overlook those all important points! best to find a property that already has the docking you need in place, new permits, impact fees, codes are terrible anymore. The enviroment is the primary concern down here anymore so any construction that affects the waterways is highly scrutinized. Better to find stuff that is grandfathered in or have deeeeeeep pockets!

If you looked for a property in my locale (Ft.Myers area) that is small and basic, no pool, single garage or carport, 2 Bdrm, 1 bth, older home on a direct access canal with no bridges leading to the river which leads to the open Gulf you would be in the roughly $109,000 and up category dependent on the particular property. It was a whole different story a few years ago. The land alone on a canal starts in the area of $45k and up and that's a good price. When I first moved here you could buy these properties for less then 10k, those days are long gone.

As of 01/02 there is a new code going into effect requiring all new homes to be fitted with hurricane shutters and other storm code improvements of one type or another and that is going to add considerably to a new house, many thousands of $$. Right now there is a building boom here to try and beat the new code requirements.

There are still some older home (they are better built) bargains to be found down here if a person is willing to do some work. Properties easily become neglected here because of the high maintenance, that along with inheritances that are never used, foreclosures, etc., creates some good deals if you look around. St. Pete / Tampa area is going to be more expensive because of the more urban settings and far higher taxes. Tampa is prone to flooding, not a good place to live on a canal in my opinion. Tampa Bay piles up at the north end of the bay when tropical systems approach from the SW, S, SE. Downtown St. Pete area is also vulnerable that way. Charlotte Harbor in SW Florida just north of me is also susceptible in that manner.

You may want to consider a condo (not cheap either), prefab housing (lots of those on suitable canals), renting.

Drop me an e-mail if I can be of any help with more info.

What do you consider affordable? For instance a 2 or 3 BR smaller retirement home in the 1200 sqft. category with a normal sized yard and nothing special about it..but maybe on one of the rivers that would allow a small dock for a 30 ft Cape Dory to reside at.

Larry DeMers

Florida is a good choice, especially Tampa. I sail mainly in Tampa Bay. The summer can have quickly changing conditions due to the sea breezes from two sides ( Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico). But the weather here in the fall, winter, spring is great.
Areas to avoid if you don't like crowds would be the beach areas/St. Pete. Tampa is located on the Bay as opposed to open Gulf. Protected sailing almost any time. Summer brings informal races from the two yacht clubs in town.
Being a Realtor in the city, I find many water front properties to be very affordable. There are lots of good homes with deep water canals, no bridges, and either bay or gulf access. And with no state income tax, not a bad place to call home.
Hope this gives you a new perspective of Florida.
And , yes, I too am originally from "The North"

demers@sgi.com

[John R.]

Larry,

Ft. Myers today is probably far different from when your grandparents lived here assuming it was some time ago. Today, it is bustling, growing too fast, heavy traffic and heavy impact, much tourism, lots of foreign investment and residents. Rising costs and taxes, but still we have no snow and ice.

To answer your questions and more:

Weather differences between here and say West Palm and Miami are variable. There isn't much change between here and say south to Key West. My observations over the years indicate to me that they get a nice sea breeze during the summer months and we don't. They get more rain. Humidity is about the same across the entire southern area of the state. In the summer months we get most weather out of the SE, in the winter it is from the WNW. It becomes very arrid here in the winter, things dry out and turn brown, not too tropical looking. In the summer it is pretty lush with constant thunderstorms and heavy tropical rains. Miami seems to fall victim to flooding problems at times in the summer months. Same with Ft. Lauderdale. West Palm I would say is less prone to those problems. The temps seem to me to be higher on average here than on the east coast, not by any great degree. Once you hit 90* and 100% humidity temperature differences become rather irrelevant unless you are a meteorologist.

To me the dew point is the measurement I use to gauge the degree of uncomfortable weather conditions down here and whether or not i'm going to work or spend time on the boat. The absolute worst weather down here as far as discomfort is concerned is when a tropical weather system is in the vicinity. As they approach or pass by the air becomes dead, thick and heavy, saturates you within a couple minutes, feels like you have been tramping through a swamp for a week. That is what you can expect to work in when you prepare your boat for storm conditions. Zeida and I have communicated many a time on the drudgery of preparing our boats when storms approach or threaten south Florida. We both take absolute full measures in prepping our boats and we work our butts off in stiffling weather. We know Florida weather from a boaters point of view! The west coast gets a very light breeze in the summer off and on, rarely more then 10-15 mph. Mornings are dead still, so are nights, late days expect thunderstorms with associated winds, some quite strong, lots and lots of lightning. Tampa/St.Pete gets the worst lightning I've ever seen......you have to live there to understand what I'm saying, it is unbelievable at times. I used to love to sit and watch it, like the 4th of July every afternoon at 4:30 through the evening. Amazing stuff.

I believe the west coast offers better sailing in the winter months, we get nice westerlies while the east coast gets the same winds but it causes the Gulf Stream to get rough. I've heard a lot of people complain about it. Perhaps someone that sails that coast during the winter can elaborate on that point for you.

It's definitely asymmetrical or 150 genoa sailing here on the west coast in the summer. In fact, I think the last time the yankee was ever used on the boat was back around '87. The weather conditions here create a lot of mold, it's basically the same across the southern part of the state. St.Pete/Tampa wasn't as bad, amazing the difference 150 miles can make. All in all I'd say the weather between here and the other coast is much the same except for the amount of rainfall and the breezes at different times of the year. Temps and humidity levels are very close. As an example of weather, today it is like Hawaii outside, mid eighties, blue sky, light steady breeze and Olga travelling northward off the east coast somewhere.

Working around the heat and humidity is not easy, just like working around freezing temps, ice and snow isn't easy. The key is learning how to deal with it. I drink a hell of a lot of water, no beer, soda, or any other typical beverage. Wear light colored clothing made of lightweight material. Work in early am or in the evening after the sun is on the horizon, obviously work as much as possible on overcast days which are rare. In my opinion september is the worst month typically. August can be tough also but it is definitely worse here in september.

I take lots of breaks, don't eat much, that just gets your body temp up. Work slowly at a measured pace. Allow plenty of time to get a project done. "Think shade" all the time, look for every opportunity. Lots of fans, I have 4 large oscillating fans in my garage to keep the air moving, three in the boat plus A/C; keeping the air moving makes a huge difference, when you perspire the fans help keep you cooler, the caveat is that you feel damn hot even when you are cool. You just have to get used to it and it takes a long time for that tolerance to develop.

It will be very difficult for someone like you that has been living in such a cool, dry climate. I've been here a long time and it still gets to me sometimes, of course so did the cold in upstate N.Y. long ago. When it breaks below 70 here I'm cold, you heard right! As you know I have central A/C on the boat, in my opinion it is essential to make the cabin reasonably comfortable. At anchor you just hope for a lot of breeze or buy a bigger boat that has a genset so you can run the A/C.

The ideal setup in a CD30 would be to have the central A/C plus have a CruiseAir carry on unit in the main salon hatch when the boat is at the dock. Zeida has one on her 33. You can leave the Cruiseair on at all times without concern (not plugged into boat AC power though) because you don't need to leave a seacock open for a built in A/C unit obtain cooling water. That way you can keep the cabin cool and dry all through the summer. I NEVER leave the built in A/C on for any lengthly period without being on board, they require the seacock to be open to pass cooling water and that is a risky scenario in the event a leak should occur. Marine A/C coils in general are not well made, I've seen the potential coil leak hazards develop up close and personal. No way ever think that you can just install a raw water cooled A/C unit and let it run unattended to keep your boat cool all the time in the summer in Florida or anywhere else for that matter. That is a formula for disaster. To do that you should use a hatch mounted CruiseAir unit. Problem is you can't take that with you on a cruise or sail with it in the hatch. That's where the built in A/C comes in. You need both. Figure about a $1700 investment in new gear. Less then a grand for used.

I put in long hours working on the boat from late october through mid march on average. That period can change with the weather. Some years are cooler longer and some are hotter longer. There is a lot to discuss about working on a boat in this climate. Leave it to say there is a learning curve, for a northern rookie it will be a couple years or so before you get the hang of it and learn how to deal with all the aspects of working in the heat and humidity. One thing is for ceratin, the boat can be in the water year round, you have access to it all the time, you can always work on stuff. There is a 365 day season in the south.

Drop me an e-mail to discuss in more detail.

John,

Wow..thanks for the detailed help in deciding where 'retirement', should it happen, could find us living. Ft.Meyers is a nice place..grandparents used to go there a lot in the winter and loved it. How is the weather compared say to Miami or West Palm? The humidity seems to be omnipresent all over Florida..is that true? I have lived in Hollywood and Fort Lauderdale while doing a big system install a while back, and in West Palm Beach for the same reason. How do you work aroundt he humidity and temps..or do you just get used to them?
I suspect that your weather is a bit nicer in Ft. Meyers Beach than the more southern towns. True?
It may be time to visit your area during a winter vacation sometime..

Thanks for the time and thought you putinto this ..I *know* what it took to write that piece.

Thanks John,

Larry

Larry,

I'm not a realtor (I guesss thats a blessing), but I have seen a lot of waterfront properties in my over 20 years of living on Florida's west coast and having spent a lot of time always looking at properties.

Your question is difficult because it depends on so many factors regarding area, waterway etc.,.

Any riverfront like you mention is going to be higher $$ because of the view those properties usually present. Secondly, that is not a good place to dock your CD30, too much boat traffic creating wakes and absolutely no storm protection. A canal is what you need to consider.....best if it is a dead end canal, mean high water height at least several feet below the residence slab (flood elevation). My house is 8' above mean high water in the canal. That's a nice cushion in the event of a hurricane, doesn't help the boat much though! Narrow canals afford more protection for a boat then broad canals. Although they can make manuvering a little tighter. My canal is 85' across and I also have a CD30 as you know. You want more than a small dock (as you mentioned) because of potential hurricane threat and you will need deeply set storm pilings to be able to tie to in keeping the boat away from the dock in event of a storm. There neds to be plenty of space between the boat and piling, and dock location so storm lines with plenty of scope can be utilized to compensate for high storm tides and surge. Don't overlook those all important points! best to find a property that already has the docking you need in place, new permits, impact fees, codes are terrible anymore. The enviroment is the primary concern down here anymore so any construction that affects the waterways is highly scrutinized. Better to find stuff that is grandfathered in or have deeeeeeep pockets!

If you looked for a property in my locale (Ft.Myers area) that is small and basic, no pool, single garage or carport, 2 Bdrm, 1 bth, older home on a direct access canal with no bridges leading to the river which leads to the open Gulf you would be in the roughly $109,000 and up category dependent on the particular property. It was a whole different story a few years ago. The land alone on a canal starts in the area of $45k and up and that's a good price. When I first moved here you could buy these properties for less then 10k, those days are long gone.

As of 01/02 there is a new code going into effect requiring all new homes to be fitted with hurricane shutters and other storm code improvements of one type or another and that is going to add considerably to a new house, many thousands of $$. Right now there is a building boom here to try and beat the new code requirements.

There are still some older home (they are better built) bargains to be found down here if a person is willing to do some work. Properties easily become neglected here because of the high maintenance, that along with inheritances that are never used, foreclosures, etc., creates some good deals if you look around. St. Pete / Tampa area is going to be more expensive because of the more urban settings and far higher taxes. Tampa is prone to flooding, not a good place to live on a canal in my opinion. Tampa Bay piles up at the north end of the bay when tropical systems approach from the SW, S, SE. Downtown St. Pete area is also vulnerable that way. Charlotte Harbor in SW Florida just north of me is also susceptible in that manner.

You may want to consider a condo (not cheap either), prefab housing (lots of those on suitable canals), renting.

Drop me an e-mail if I can be of any help with more info.

What do you consider affordable? For instance a 2 or 3 BR smaller retirement home in the 1200 sqft. category with a normal sized yard and nothing special about it..but maybe on one of the rivers that would allow a small dock for a 30 ft Cape Dory to reside at.

Larry DeMers

[Larry DeMers]

John,

Thank you for the info and the detailed comparison of temps and humidity across the state. I have a little experience in southern Florida..spent most of a year there in one chunk, then several shorter trips to other areas, as I mentioned previously. You are right..it took me a whole summer to get used to the whallop you get when you step from air conditioning to the natural outdoors. It's quite a shock..even at 10pm at night!

Thanks Again,

Larry



demers@sgi.com

[Will Parker]

Larry,
I just got back from two week cruise to the Keys (Went to Blackwater Sound in Key Largo) so I missed a lot of postings. Happy to see you are considering Florida for retirement. I have read all the postings to you and agree with all of them. Very thoughtful and accurate. I will add this bit which might affect the decision for a sailor. The West Coast of Florida (I live on the EAST coast in West Palm Beach area) is beautiful and has all the lovely little spots for gunkholing, etc, much more so than the East Coast. However, the West coast has two qualities whcih IMHO disqualify it for the sailng life. The first is described by one word: SHALLOW. There are just too many places to go aground. Further, even the Gulf of Mexico is Shallow. The second has already been mentioned but since it is high on my list, I will add my amen: lightning! You ain't seen nothing till you have lived on Florida's West Coast.
One further thing. West Palm Beach is a great jumping off place for the Bahamas.
About real estate, I would recommend putting your boat in a marina rather than buying a house with dock. Cheaper and the marina provides great social life which you would miss if you kept your boat in your own private back yard dock.
Anyway, welcome to retirement. I have been here for a few years. The pay is not as good but the hours are great!

Good luck!
Will
"Jambalaya"
CD 30

John,

Wow..thanks for the detailed help in deciding where 'retirement', should it happen, could find us living. Ft.Meyers is a nice place..grandparents used to go there a lot in the winter and loved it. How is the weather compared say to Miami or West Palm? The humidity seems to be omnipresent all over Florida..is that true? I have lived in Hollywood and Fort Lauderdale while doing a big system install a while back, and in West Palm Beach for the same reason. How do you work aroundt he humidity and temps..or do you just get used to them?
I suspect that your weather is a bit nicer in Ft. Meyers Beach than the more southern towns. True?
It may be time to visit your area during a winter vacation sometime..

Thanks for the time and thought you putinto this ..I *know* what it took to write that piece.

Thanks John,

Larry

Larry,

I'm not a realtor (I guesss thats a blessing), but I have seen a lot of waterfront properties in my over 20 years of living on Florida's west coast and having spent a lot of time always looking at properties.

Your question is difficult because it depends on so many factors regarding area, waterway etc.,.

Any riverfront like you mention is going to be higher $$ because of the view those properties usually present. Secondly, that is not a good place to dock your CD30, too much boat traffic creating wakes and absolutely no storm protection. A canal is what you need to consider.....best if it is a dead end canal, mean high water height at least several feet below the residence slab (flood elevation). My house is 8' above mean high water in the canal. That's a nice cushion in the event of a hurricane, doesn't help the boat much though! Narrow canals afford more protection for a boat then broad canals. Although they can make manuvering a little tighter. My canal is 85' across and I also have a CD30 as you know. You want more than a small dock (as you mentioned) because of potential hurricane threat and you will need deeply set storm pilings to be able to tie to in keeping the boat away from the dock in event of a storm. There neds to be plenty of space between the boat and piling, and dock location so storm lines with plenty of scope can be utilized to compensate for high storm tides and surge. Don't overlook those all important points! best to find a property that already has the docking you need in place, new permits, impact fees, codes are terrible anymore. The enviroment is the primary concern down here anymore so any construction that affects the waterways is highly scrutinized. Better to find stuff that is grandfathered in or have deeeeeeep pockets!

If you looked for a property in my locale (Ft.Myers area) that is small and basic, no pool, single garage or carport, 2 Bdrm, 1 bth, older home on a direct access canal with no bridges leading to the river which leads to the open Gulf you would be in the roughly $109,000 and up category dependent on the particular property. It was a whole different story a few years ago. The land alone on a canal starts in the area of $45k and up and that's a good price. When I first moved here you could buy these properties for less then 10k, those days are long gone.

As of 01/02 there is a new code going into effect requiring all new homes to be fitted with hurricane shutters and other storm code improvements of one type or another and that is going to add considerably to a new house, many thousands of $$. Right now there is a building boom here to try and beat the new code requirements.

There are still some older home (they are better built) bargains to be found down here if a person is willing to do some work. Properties easily become neglected here because of the high maintenance, that along with inheritances that are never used, foreclosures, etc., creates some good deals if you look around. St. Pete / Tampa area is going to be more expensive because of the more urban settings and far higher taxes. Tampa is prone to flooding, not a good place to live on a canal in my opinion. Tampa Bay piles up at the north end of the bay when tropical systems approach from the SW, S, SE. Downtown St. Pete area is also vulnerable that way. Charlotte Harbor in SW Florida just north of me is also susceptible in that manner.

You may want to consider a condo (not cheap either), prefab housing (lots of those on suitable canals), renting.

Drop me an e-mail if I can be of any help with more info.

What do you consider affordable? For instance a 2 or 3 BR smaller retirement home in the 1200 sqft. category with a normal sized yard and nothing special about it..but maybe on one of the rivers that would allow a small dock for a 30 ft Cape Dory to reside at.

Larry DeMers

whildenp@flinet.com