Now that sailing, sadly, is no longer option, I've been taking to reading books. One authority states that the boom vang can be put to effective use as a preventer by leading it forward to a strong attachment point. Which got me to thinking. I've always heard that this is a poor practice, despite having knowing several skippers who swear by it, attaching the vang to a stanchion base. Seems to me, though, that the times when you'd want a preventer are the exact same times you'd want the vang doing its normal job. Also, seeing as how the vang is used to apply tension, I can't imagine that it has a whole lot of "give", so a sudden jolt might break the stanchion, or worse, damage the boom.
So anyways, what is the consensus here on preventers? Is the boom vang safe and effective? What is the best way to rig a preventer on a Cape Dory?
As always, I am most appreciative of the experience and wisdom that flows from this board and its correspondents.
H. Meyrick
hmeyrick@ameritech.net
on preventers and boom vangs
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: on preventers .......
Captain Meyrick,
A preventer simply "prevents" an inadvertant jibe when running before the wind. It will give the helmsman a little more time to correct his course before the main jibes over. One thing to watch when you are running before the wind, is the leach of the sail. IF it starts to curl, it is telling you that it is about to jibe. Instantly head up a little, and the situation will correct itself. And, the slight tension on the preventer will not pull the stanchion out of the deck.
Now, if you make the helm hard to leward, the main will jibe against the preventer, and if you are really careless, the main will fill with the preventer holding it. At that point, you very well may hear fiberglass parting, and the boom will violently jibe over. Don't have your head in the way of that one, or it will take it OFF! But this discription is an obvious disregard for saftey and proper helmsmanship, so I don't think any of us would go so far. FWIW.....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA #1
A preventer simply "prevents" an inadvertant jibe when running before the wind. It will give the helmsman a little more time to correct his course before the main jibes over. One thing to watch when you are running before the wind, is the leach of the sail. IF it starts to curl, it is telling you that it is about to jibe. Instantly head up a little, and the situation will correct itself. And, the slight tension on the preventer will not pull the stanchion out of the deck.
Now, if you make the helm hard to leward, the main will jibe against the preventer, and if you are really careless, the main will fill with the preventer holding it. At that point, you very well may hear fiberglass parting, and the boom will violently jibe over. Don't have your head in the way of that one, or it will take it OFF! But this discription is an obvious disregard for saftey and proper helmsmanship, so I don't think any of us would go so far. FWIW.....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA #1
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Don Carr
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
I concur with Dave. There is another way to rig a preventer..the 'offshore method'. This is done by rigging a line from the boom end to
a forward deck cleat and a second line aft from the boom end to a stern deck cleat. This is very often used by offshore cruisers to 'prevent' boom slop fore/aft in seas with lighter winds. Nothing will prevent a jib but a helmsman, but the preventer will help a wildly swinging boom. Personally the vang rigged to the stanchion base is more than adequate for sailors of our ilk. IMHO.
carrds@us.ibm.com
a forward deck cleat and a second line aft from the boom end to a stern deck cleat. This is very often used by offshore cruisers to 'prevent' boom slop fore/aft in seas with lighter winds. Nothing will prevent a jib but a helmsman, but the preventer will help a wildly swinging boom. Personally the vang rigged to the stanchion base is more than adequate for sailors of our ilk. IMHO.
carrds@us.ibm.com
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Chip
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
Hi Folks,
When needed, I rig 2 preventers, one for the main and one for the staysail, and generally find it to be a better ride for the boat, and for sleeping crew below. I have used the stanchion base as an attachment point for both, but in the future I would like to mount a dedicated padeye for this purpose. (mainsail only)
Chip
chip88673@yahoo.com
When needed, I rig 2 preventers, one for the main and one for the staysail, and generally find it to be a better ride for the boat, and for sleeping crew below. I have used the stanchion base as an attachment point for both, but in the future I would like to mount a dedicated padeye for this purpose. (mainsail only)
Chip
chip88673@yahoo.com
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Patrick Turner
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
What we have done is to mount a folding padeye aft of the shrouds and out just a tad from the toe-rail, similar to the placement of the stanchion bases. These padeyes, one on each side, are backed up with substanial washers and are very strong. Because they are of the folding type they are never a probelm. When off the wind a fair amount we detatch the vang at the mast and reattatch at the padeye, snug it up and it ain't going nowhere. Now, to make sure that you don't over stress the the boom, you can (and probably should) use either a rubber snubber at the boom attatchment point, or have a small loop made out of a strip of webbing material with the ends sewn together that you can loop through the folding padeye on deck and then through itself, thus creating a small "eye" (or loop) of webbing material to attatch the vang to. What you are trying to create is something that will either absorbe overloading shock or be the weak link that breads befor the boom does.
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
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Anthony P. Jeske
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
I believe that attaching the preventer to the chainplate solves the potential problem of overstressing the lifeline stanchion. You may need to add a clevis to the chainplate/turnbuckle junction.
Keep in mind that the vang is used when reaching and a preventer when running, so I don't believe there's a conflict in having one rig do both jobs.
Inasmuch as the boom should be snugged taut by the preventer, an inadvertent jibe should not result in the boom moving at all, thus eliminating the risk of catastrophic failure due to yanking or jolting of the boom.
Tony Jeske
CD-25D Carpe Diem
Still sailing in San Diego
ajeske@ixpres.com
Keep in mind that the vang is used when reaching and a preventer when running, so I don't believe there's a conflict in having one rig do both jobs.
Inasmuch as the boom should be snugged taut by the preventer, an inadvertent jibe should not result in the boom moving at all, thus eliminating the risk of catastrophic failure due to yanking or jolting of the boom.
Tony Jeske
CD-25D Carpe Diem
Still sailing in San Diego
ajeske@ixpres.com
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Anthony P. Jeske
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
I believe that attaching the preventer to the chainplate solves the potential problem of overstressing the lifeline stanchion. You may need to add a clevis to the chainplate/turnbuckle junction.
Keep in mind that the vang is used when reaching and a preventer when running, so I don't believe there's a conflict in having one rig do both jobs.
Inasmuch as the boom should be snugged taut by the preventer, an inadvertent jibe should not result in the boom moving at all, thus eliminating the risk of catastrophic failure due to yanking or jolting of the boom.
Tony Jeske
CD-25D Carpe Diem
Still sailing in San Diego
ajeske@ixpres.com
Keep in mind that the vang is used when reaching and a preventer when running, so I don't believe there's a conflict in having one rig do both jobs.
Inasmuch as the boom should be snugged taut by the preventer, an inadvertent jibe should not result in the boom moving at all, thus eliminating the risk of catastrophic failure due to yanking or jolting of the boom.
Tony Jeske
CD-25D Carpe Diem
Still sailing in San Diego
ajeske@ixpres.com
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Neil Gordon
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
>>Seems to me, though, that the times when you'd want a preventer are the exact same times you'd want the vang doing its normal job.<<
If you lead the vang to a stanchion base, it will both keep the boom from swinging *and* rising. Just lead it to a point that's near (but forward of) the boom. If the vang is tight enough, it will hold the
boom forward, preventing an accidental jibe.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
If you lead the vang to a stanchion base, it will both keep the boom from swinging *and* rising. Just lead it to a point that's near (but forward of) the boom. If the vang is tight enough, it will hold the
boom forward, preventing an accidental jibe.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
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Bill Goldsmith
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
Attaching the vang to a stanchion base as a preventer should only be used in relatively light winds, just to give the helmsman a little breathing room. I take out family with kids alot, and their friends, and despite constant reminders they often do not remember to stay low on the boat when running before the wind. This "quick preventer lite" can help in a situation like that.
However, if the wind is strong, don't do it. As Capt. Stump wrote, an accidental jibe could literally rip out the base. Have you inspected the backing plates for the stanchion base you'll use? If so, are they substantial? I've inspected mine and they are clearly not designed for rigging loads, and particularly not for shock loads of that magnitude.
Furthermore, I'd be concerned that even frequent "lite" use could contribute to deck leaks as the leverage against the vang is high and would be "working" against the stanchion base regularly. So, if planning to use this regularly, I would consider really beefing up the backing plates for those stanchions. Of course as long as you're already doing that, might as well add a couple of heavy padeyes as described in an earlier post. Of all the ideas so far, I like running the line from the boom end to a bow cleat the best. More of a pain to set, but the stresses generated at the boom end are much less than at the vang attachment point, and the bow cleats are designed to take the loads.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27 #173
Second Chance
goldy@bestweb.net
However, if the wind is strong, don't do it. As Capt. Stump wrote, an accidental jibe could literally rip out the base. Have you inspected the backing plates for the stanchion base you'll use? If so, are they substantial? I've inspected mine and they are clearly not designed for rigging loads, and particularly not for shock loads of that magnitude.
Furthermore, I'd be concerned that even frequent "lite" use could contribute to deck leaks as the leverage against the vang is high and would be "working" against the stanchion base regularly. So, if planning to use this regularly, I would consider really beefing up the backing plates for those stanchions. Of course as long as you're already doing that, might as well add a couple of heavy padeyes as described in an earlier post. Of all the ideas so far, I like running the line from the boom end to a bow cleat the best. More of a pain to set, but the stresses generated at the boom end are much less than at the vang attachment point, and the bow cleats are designed to take the loads.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27 #173
Second Chance
Huw Meyrick wrote: Now that sailing, sadly, is no longer option, I've been taking to reading books. One authority states that the boom vang can be put to effective use as a preventer by leading it forward to a strong attachment point. Which got me to thinking. I've always heard that this is a poor practice, despite having knowing several skippers who swear by it, attaching the vang to a stanchion base. Seems to me, though, that the times when you'd want a preventer are the exact same times you'd want the vang doing its normal job. Also, seeing as how the vang is used to apply tension, I can't imagine that it has a whole lot of "give", so a sudden jolt might break the stanchion, or worse, damage the boom.
So anyways, what is the consensus here on preventers? Is the boom vang safe and effective? What is the best way to rig a preventer on a Cape Dory?
As always, I am most appreciative of the experience and wisdom that flows from this board and its correspondents.
H. Meyrick
goldy@bestweb.net
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Serge Zimberoff
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
Running before a steady wind, sails set wing on wing, nothing adds more to peace of mind than having that preventer set.
serge@srtrop.com
serge@srtrop.com
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Jack Chamberlain
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
The vang on Maggie Rose, our CD 33, came with a very long line. When we need a preventer, I just take the bitter end of the very long vang line forward to a bow cleat. So far, this has worked just fine. I was leery of over-stressing a stanchion and didn't want to drill more holes in the deck for a padeye.
jchamber@crosslink.net
jchamber@crosslink.net
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Roger
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
Adding my two cents...I've used this setup most often: a) in light air to prevent main jibes when rolling about on a run, b) in moderate air when sailing very deep down wind angles (ahem...even by the lee) such as wing & wing. I would NEVER use a preventer is strong wind unless you have a death wish, or want to buy a new boom.
I would_NOT_use my vang as a preventer for the reasons you originally mention -- it holds the boom down and keeps puffs from blowing the mainsail into the boom spreaders. A separate preventer line is easy to rig, and most importantly, easy to remove should wing/angle change suddenly. Again, when you may need that vang to depower (flatten) the sail leach.
As for preventer attachment, avoid using a stanchion and go directly to the (outboard) car track. Just lead your preventer line through a spare block and your set. If it's long enough, lead it back to the cockpit for easy removal.
Lastly, your mate can make a nice preventer in light air by leading back against the boom.
I would_NOT_use my vang as a preventer for the reasons you originally mention -- it holds the boom down and keeps puffs from blowing the mainsail into the boom spreaders. A separate preventer line is easy to rig, and most importantly, easy to remove should wing/angle change suddenly. Again, when you may need that vang to depower (flatten) the sail leach.
As for preventer attachment, avoid using a stanchion and go directly to the (outboard) car track. Just lead your preventer line through a spare block and your set. If it's long enough, lead it back to the cockpit for easy removal.
Lastly, your mate can make a nice preventer in light air by leading back against the boom.
Don Carr wrote: I concur with Dave. There is another way to rig a preventer..the 'offshore method'. This is done by rigging a line from the boom end to
a forward deck cleat and a second line aft from the boom end to a stern deck cleat. This is very often used by offshore cruisers to 'prevent' boom slop fore/aft in seas with lighter winds. Nothing will prevent a jib but a helmsman, but the preventer will help a wildly swinging boom. Personally the vang rigged to the stanchion base is more than adequate for sailors of our ilk. IMHO.
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Andy Denmark
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
For what it's worth,
As a delivery skipper with many miles offshore on many different boats let me offer the following: when you must sail dead down (I rarely ever do) and the wind is anything over light, then simply take the main down and sail on jib alone. Risking an accidental jibe with any sort of arrangement other than a boom-end preventer is asking to bend the boom at the vang attachment point.
I absolutely hate sailing dead downwind - slow, awful motion (usually), demands too much helm alertness to keep from jibing, ad nauseam. We often have to do this coming north up the Gulf Stream on deliveries from the south. The answer is so very simple -- take the main down altogether and sail on jib(s) alone. Better, sail on spinnaker alone, be it a standard rig or a cruising chute.
I'm hearing a reluctance here to leave the cockpit and properly tend to the boat. Get over it. If it's that scary, then hook up with a harness and take care of business properly. One of the things we've learned is to set the boat up right early on as the long periods of compromise are agonizing for everyone. Ease of handling, better motion, reduced "jibing anxiety", make life easier for all aboard.
My two cents worth,
Andy Denmark
CD-27 # 270 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC 35* 05.137' N, 076* 38.695' W (for the southbounders)
trekker@coastalnet.com
As a delivery skipper with many miles offshore on many different boats let me offer the following: when you must sail dead down (I rarely ever do) and the wind is anything over light, then simply take the main down and sail on jib alone. Risking an accidental jibe with any sort of arrangement other than a boom-end preventer is asking to bend the boom at the vang attachment point.
I absolutely hate sailing dead downwind - slow, awful motion (usually), demands too much helm alertness to keep from jibing, ad nauseam. We often have to do this coming north up the Gulf Stream on deliveries from the south. The answer is so very simple -- take the main down altogether and sail on jib(s) alone. Better, sail on spinnaker alone, be it a standard rig or a cruising chute.
I'm hearing a reluctance here to leave the cockpit and properly tend to the boat. Get over it. If it's that scary, then hook up with a harness and take care of business properly. One of the things we've learned is to set the boat up right early on as the long periods of compromise are agonizing for everyone. Ease of handling, better motion, reduced "jibing anxiety", make life easier for all aboard.
My two cents worth,
Andy Denmark
CD-27 # 270 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC 35* 05.137' N, 076* 38.695' W (for the southbounders)
trekker@coastalnet.com
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Warren Kaplan
And I thought I was the ONLY one!!
Andy,Andy Denmark wrote: I absolutely hate sailing dead downwind - slow, awful motion (usually), demands too much helm alertness to keep from jibing, ad nauseam.
Andy Denmark
CD-27 # 270 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC 35* 05.137' N, 076* 38.695' W (for the southbounders)
And I thought I was the only one who hated sailing dead downwind!! Especially since I don't have a spinnaker (yet). Along with what you said I just found that my boat just sails better with the main out of the way. Unless you are doing a "wing and wing" arrangement the main just blankets the more efficient genny on an extended downwind sail.
Warren Kaplan
S/V Sine Qua Non
CD27 (now residing in Oyster Bay, New York)
Setsail728@aol.com
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Jon
Re: on preventers and boom vangs
Huw,
The force generated by the rig is related to the size of the rig. I can't imagine a Typhoon or a 25 generating enough force to damage a stantion base. However, if you are running a 36 or 40 off the wind, then you have the potential to do some serious uprooting damage. I clip the vang onto the stantion base when running downwind with my 25, and have yet to see any ill effect.
Just a perspective,
Jon
CD25 Sovereign
The force generated by the rig is related to the size of the rig. I can't imagine a Typhoon or a 25 generating enough force to damage a stantion base. However, if you are running a 36 or 40 off the wind, then you have the potential to do some serious uprooting damage. I clip the vang onto the stantion base when running downwind with my 25, and have yet to see any ill effect.
Just a perspective,
Jon
CD25 Sovereign