Well, we learned another lesson this weekend. The upper nut on the engine mount stud is supposed to have a lockwasher under it. I think "external star" may be the proper terminology. Guess what? They rust!
As we have in the past, we found a loose nut and on imvestigation discovered the washer was about 1/3 gone. we also discovered that if that particular nut was tightened, all engine vibrations went away up to at least 3000 RPM under load in the slip. It will be interesting to see what happens when we get all new lock washers under all the nuts. I think maybe an alignment is in order, but I am starting with the "no vibration" position.
Another great weekend at the boat even if we didn't leave the slip.
Ken
parfait@nc.rr.com
Engine Mounts - Another Lesson
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Engine Mounts - Another Lesson
Hi Ken,
Good Catch Sir!
I reported earlier this year about finding one nut and washer completely off and another unscrewed to within a few turns of falling off. Both on the starboard side. This was on my last once-over before putting on 450 odd miles. So I know that wonderful Ahh-Hah! feeling you had to have.
I have been playing with the idea of changing out my motor mounts and was wondering if you have had any experience with that? Looking at the rubber mounts in place now, I believe that if I disconnect the coupling flange and the two engine mounting nuts on one side, the engine could be tipped sufficiently to the other side to remove the mounts, one side at a time and replace them witht he bottom nuts at the same level as the original had (this will get me close to the original alignment, but will have to realign the beast for certain).
I have cut back the audible noise from that Volvo by submerging the exhaust in the water with a L shaped exhaust extension, but now the vibratioin has to be dealt with. I suspect that new mounts will have softer rubber, making the vibes a bit easier to take.
Oh well.. add another item to that list for spring. ;^))
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~On The Hard on Lake Superior..~~~
demers@sgi.com
Good Catch Sir!
I reported earlier this year about finding one nut and washer completely off and another unscrewed to within a few turns of falling off. Both on the starboard side. This was on my last once-over before putting on 450 odd miles. So I know that wonderful Ahh-Hah! feeling you had to have.
I have been playing with the idea of changing out my motor mounts and was wondering if you have had any experience with that? Looking at the rubber mounts in place now, I believe that if I disconnect the coupling flange and the two engine mounting nuts on one side, the engine could be tipped sufficiently to the other side to remove the mounts, one side at a time and replace them witht he bottom nuts at the same level as the original had (this will get me close to the original alignment, but will have to realign the beast for certain).
I have cut back the audible noise from that Volvo by submerging the exhaust in the water with a L shaped exhaust extension, but now the vibratioin has to be dealt with. I suspect that new mounts will have softer rubber, making the vibes a bit easier to take.
Oh well.. add another item to that list for spring. ;^))
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~On The Hard on Lake Superior..~~~
Ken Coit wrote: Well, we learned another lesson this weekend. The upper nut on the engine mount stud is supposed to have a lockwasher under it. I think "external star" may be the proper terminology. Guess what? They rust!
As we have in the past, we found a loose nut and on imvestigation discovered the washer was about 1/3 gone. we also discovered that if that particular nut was tightened, all engine vibrations went away up to at least 3000 RPM under load in the slip. It will be interesting to see what happens when we get all new lock washers under all the nuts. I think maybe an alignment is in order, but I am starting with the "no vibration" position.
Another great weekend at the boat even if we didn't leave the slip.
Ken
demers@sgi.com
-
Ken Coit
Re: Engine Mounts - Another Lesson
Larry,
I haven't had the pleasure of replacing the engine mounts in anything more complicated than an automobile, but in the case of Parfait, the engine would have to lift about two to three inches before the stud would clear. Once the coupling is disconnected, I'd think it might be easier to lift the front and then the back. I am guessing that the distance between the studs is greater front to back than side to side. Thus, there would less likelihood of binding the stud in the mount hole in the block. If they do bind, then it would be necessary to lift the whole engine.
I'm thinking of trying to operate a small hydralic jack in the space and I am not feeling very good. Maybe a c-shaped steel device that would fit from above the engine, around the companionway and into the cockpit would give you a chance to lift the engine with block and tackle to the boom.
I must say that I was quite surprised to feel no significant vibration at 3000 RPM as it has been a problem since before I bought the boat even if the surveyor and previous owner wouldn't say so.
See my other post about B&G for another revelation.
Ken
parfait@nc.rr.com
I haven't had the pleasure of replacing the engine mounts in anything more complicated than an automobile, but in the case of Parfait, the engine would have to lift about two to three inches before the stud would clear. Once the coupling is disconnected, I'd think it might be easier to lift the front and then the back. I am guessing that the distance between the studs is greater front to back than side to side. Thus, there would less likelihood of binding the stud in the mount hole in the block. If they do bind, then it would be necessary to lift the whole engine.
I'm thinking of trying to operate a small hydralic jack in the space and I am not feeling very good. Maybe a c-shaped steel device that would fit from above the engine, around the companionway and into the cockpit would give you a chance to lift the engine with block and tackle to the boom.
I must say that I was quite surprised to feel no significant vibration at 3000 RPM as it has been a problem since before I bought the boat even if the surveyor and previous owner wouldn't say so.
See my other post about B&G for another revelation.
Ken
Larry DeMers wrote: Hi Ken,
Good Catch Sir!
I reported earlier this year about finding one nut and washer completely off and another unscrewed to within a few turns of falling off. Both on the starboard side. This was on my last once-over before putting on 450 odd miles. So I know that wonderful Ahh-Hah! feeling you had to have.
I have been playing with the idea of changing out my motor mounts and was wondering if you have had any experience with that? Looking at the rubber mounts in place now, I believe that if I disconnect the coupling flange and the two engine mounting nuts on one side, the engine could be tipped sufficiently to the other side to remove the mounts, one side at a time and replace them witht he bottom nuts at the same level as the original had (this will get me close to the original alignment, but will have to realign the beast for certain).
I have cut back the audible noise from that Volvo by submerging the exhaust in the water with a L shaped exhaust extension, but now the vibratioin has to be dealt with. I suspect that new mounts will have softer rubber, making the vibes a bit easier to take.
Oh well.. add another item to that list for spring. ;^))
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~On The Hard on Lake Superior..~~~
Ken Coit wrote: Well, we learned another lesson this weekend. The upper nut on the engine mount stud is supposed to have a lockwasher under it. I think "external star" may be the proper terminology. Guess what? They rust!
As we have in the past, we found a loose nut and on imvestigation discovered the washer was about 1/3 gone. we also discovered that if that particular nut was tightened, all engine vibrations went away up to at least 3000 RPM under load in the slip. It will be interesting to see what happens when we get all new lock washers under all the nuts. I think maybe an alignment is in order, but I am starting with the "no vibration" position.
Another great weekend at the boat even if we didn't leave the slip.
Ken
parfait@nc.rr.com
-
sloopjohnl
Re: Engine Mounts - Another Lesson
ken,
i think you are right-on about doing the front first, then the rear.we put new engine mounts in my brother-in-law's searay 26 this summer and used two small hydraulic jacks, one on each side. of course the engine bay is as big as a whirlpool, but then again the engine is a 454. like you said the lift was about three inches to get the old ones out and new ones in. as for using the bottom nut like larry wants to do, a lot depends on if the mounts have been repeatedly tightened and how much they may have compressed over the years.
i think you are right-on about doing the front first, then the rear.we put new engine mounts in my brother-in-law's searay 26 this summer and used two small hydraulic jacks, one on each side. of course the engine bay is as big as a whirlpool, but then again the engine is a 454. like you said the lift was about three inches to get the old ones out and new ones in. as for using the bottom nut like larry wants to do, a lot depends on if the mounts have been repeatedly tightened and how much they may have compressed over the years.
Ken Coit wrote: Larry,
I haven't had the pleasure of replacing the engine mounts in anything more complicated than an automobile, but in the case of Parfait, the engine would have to lift about two to three inches before the stud would clear. Once the coupling is disconnected, I'd think it might be easier to lift the front and then the back. I am guessing that the distance between the studs is greater front to back than side to side. Thus, there would less likelihood of binding the stud in the mount hole in the block. If they do bind, then it would be necessary to lift the whole engine.
I'm thinking of trying to operate a small hydralic jack in the space and I am not feeling very good. Maybe a c-shaped steel device that would fit from above the engine, around the companionway and into the cockpit would give you a chance to lift the engine with block and tackle to the boom.
I must say that I was quite surprised to feel no significant vibration at 3000 RPM as it has been a problem since before I bought the boat even if the surveyor and previous owner wouldn't say so.
See my other post about B&G for another revelation.
Ken
Larry DeMers wrote: Hi Ken,
Good Catch Sir!
I reported earlier this year about finding one nut and washer completely off and another unscrewed to within a few turns of falling off. Both on the starboard side. This was on my last once-over before putting on 450 odd miles. So I know that wonderful Ahh-Hah! feeling you had to have.
I have been playing with the idea of changing out my motor mounts and was wondering if you have had any experience with that? Looking at the rubber mounts in place now, I believe that if I disconnect the coupling flange and the two engine mounting nuts on one side, the engine could be tipped sufficiently to the other side to remove the mounts, one side at a time and replace them witht he bottom nuts at the same level as the original had (this will get me close to the original alignment, but will have to realign the beast for certain).
I have cut back the audible noise from that Volvo by submerging the exhaust in the water with a L shaped exhaust extension, but now the vibratioin has to be dealt with. I suspect that new mounts will have softer rubber, making the vibes a bit easier to take.
Oh well.. add another item to that list for spring. ;^))
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~On The Hard on Lake Superior..~~~
Ken Coit wrote: Well, we learned another lesson this weekend. The upper nut on the engine mount stud is supposed to have a lockwasher under it. I think "external star" may be the proper terminology. Guess what? They rust!
As we have in the past, we found a loose nut and on imvestigation discovered the washer was about 1/3 gone. we also discovered that if that particular nut was tightened, all engine vibrations went away up to at least 3000 RPM under load in the slip. It will be interesting to see what happens when we get all new lock washers under all the nuts. I think maybe an alignment is in order, but I am starting with the "no vibration" position.
Another great weekend at the boat even if we didn't leave the slip.
Ken
-
John Nuttall
Be careful where you place the jacks........
........a fellow sailor jacked a hole thru the top of his holding tank while trying to jack the engine up........thus rather complicating an already difficult project....
John
aimless@nc.rr.com
John
aimless@nc.rr.com
-
Ken Coit
Re: Be careful where you place the jacks........
Is that one of those "unintended consequences"?
On the 36, the holding tank is forward of the engine, but it still would be a good idea to spread the load on the hull, not a tank.
Ken
On the 36, the holding tank is forward of the engine, but it still would be a good idea to spread the load on the hull, not a tank.
Ken
John Nuttall wrote: ........a fellow sailor jacked a hole thru the top of his holding tank while trying to jack the engine up........thus rather complicating an already difficult project....
John
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Leo MacDonald
Engine Alignment
Hi Guys,
If your going to be looking into the engine mounts here is a little food for thought.
Last spring I had the engine (Volvo MD7A) of Heather Ann ('77 CD30K) out for shaft, shaft seal & cutlass bearing replacement and shaft log repair (A long, sad story in itself.) After engine removal we found the forward end of the shaft log worn at the top and the aft end of the cutlass worn at the bottom, i.e. the engine sat too high. (The motor mounts appeared to be original.) Within a day the mechanic found and installed four mounts that fit the footprint and lowered the engine approx. 3/16-inch. During sea trials I noticed a very definite reduction in engine vibration. And I also expect the cutlass to last a little longer.
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdore@aol.com
If your going to be looking into the engine mounts here is a little food for thought.
Last spring I had the engine (Volvo MD7A) of Heather Ann ('77 CD30K) out for shaft, shaft seal & cutlass bearing replacement and shaft log repair (A long, sad story in itself.) After engine removal we found the forward end of the shaft log worn at the top and the aft end of the cutlass worn at the bottom, i.e. the engine sat too high. (The motor mounts appeared to be original.) Within a day the mechanic found and installed four mounts that fit the footprint and lowered the engine approx. 3/16-inch. During sea trials I noticed a very definite reduction in engine vibration. And I also expect the cutlass to last a little longer.
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdore@aol.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Engine Mounts - Another Lesson
Ken, John and all,
Good idea...I will try the lift from the front first. On lifting the whole engine from the cockpit, we used a strongback to accomplish this 4 years ago when I pulled the engine for rebuilding. I used a 2 inch diameter cutoff section of a prop shaft..about 6ft. long. I had a s.s. eye welded to the bar about 5/8ths of the way down one end. This is where the crane (or block and tackle off your boom) is connected. At the short end, I attached a chain and chain hook which was attached to the lifting eye on the engine. I had the crane lift about 3 inches, as I pushed down on the bars long end. This lifted the engine straight up off the mounts, and allowed me to move the bar and engine straight back into the salon, up over the steps (as the crane lifted the engine some more), and out into the cockpit, without touching the wood at all.( Jan had placed cardboard all around the companionway just in case I sneezed at the wrong time). There were no repairs made anyway..;*).
Cheers,
Larry
demers@sgi.com
Good idea...I will try the lift from the front first. On lifting the whole engine from the cockpit, we used a strongback to accomplish this 4 years ago when I pulled the engine for rebuilding. I used a 2 inch diameter cutoff section of a prop shaft..about 6ft. long. I had a s.s. eye welded to the bar about 5/8ths of the way down one end. This is where the crane (or block and tackle off your boom) is connected. At the short end, I attached a chain and chain hook which was attached to the lifting eye on the engine. I had the crane lift about 3 inches, as I pushed down on the bars long end. This lifted the engine straight up off the mounts, and allowed me to move the bar and engine straight back into the salon, up over the steps (as the crane lifted the engine some more), and out into the cockpit, without touching the wood at all.( Jan had placed cardboard all around the companionway just in case I sneezed at the wrong time). There were no repairs made anyway..;*).
Cheers,
Larry
Ken Coit wrote: Larry,
I haven't had the pleasure of replacing the engine mounts in anything more complicated than an automobile, but in the case of Parfait, the engine would have to lift about two to three inches before the stud would clear. Once the coupling is disconnected, I'd think it might be easier to lift the front and then the back. I am guessing that the distance between the studs is greater front to back than side to side. Thus, there would less likelihood of binding the stud in the mount hole in the block. If they do bind, then it would be necessary to lift the whole engine.
I'm thinking of trying to operate a small hydralic jack in the space and I am not feeling very good. Maybe a c-shaped steel device that would fit from above the engine, around the companionway and into the cockpit would give you a chance to lift the engine with block and tackle to the boom.
I must say that I was quite surprised to feel no significant vibration at 3000 RPM as it has been a problem since before I bought the boat even if the surveyor and previous owner wouldn't say so.
See my other post about B&G for another revelation.
Ken
Larry DeMers wrote: Hi Ken,
Good Catch Sir!
I reported earlier this year about finding one nut and washer completely off and another unscrewed to within a few turns of falling off. Both on the starboard side. This was on my last once-over before putting on 450 odd miles. So I know that wonderful Ahh-Hah! feeling you had to have.
I have been playing with the idea of changing out my motor mounts and was wondering if you have had any experience with that? Looking at the rubber mounts in place now, I believe that if I disconnect the coupling flange and the two engine mounting nuts on one side, the engine could be tipped sufficiently to the other side to remove the mounts, one side at a time and replace them witht he bottom nuts at the same level as the original had (this will get me close to the original alignment, but will have to realign the beast for certain).
I have cut back the audible noise from that Volvo by submerging the exhaust in the water with a L shaped exhaust extension, but now the vibratioin has to be dealt with. I suspect that new mounts will have softer rubber, making the vibes a bit easier to take.
Oh well.. add another item to that list for spring. ;^))
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~On The Hard on Lake Superior..~~~
Ken Coit wrote: Well, we learned another lesson this weekend. The upper nut on the engine mount stud is supposed to have a lockwasher under it. I think "external star" may be the proper terminology. Guess what? They rust!
As we have in the past, we found a loose nut and on imvestigation discovered the washer was about 1/3 gone. we also discovered that if that particular nut was tightened, all engine vibrations went away up to at least 3000 RPM under load in the slip. It will be interesting to see what happens when we get all new lock washers under all the nuts. I think maybe an alignment is in order, but I am starting with the "no vibration" position.
Another great weekend at the boat even if we didn't leave the slip.
Ken
demers@sgi.com
-
Al Levesque
Re: Be careful where you place the jacks........
Our holding tank in a 33 has a stepped down portion of the top that forms the pan under the engine. This makes it very tempting to jack from. The incident that was reported here some time ago was, I believe, the same situation.Ken Coit wrote: On the 36, the holding tank is forward of the engine, but it still would be a good idea to spread the load on the hull, not a tank.
It would be nice if a metal frame could be attached to the supports in the hull to jack from. Gee, that could take all the fun out of it
albertlevesque@cove.com