I'm considering adding a water cooled Isotherm refrigeration unit to my CD-36 so I searched the history files for fellow CD owners experience with Isotherm. Every thing I found was positive. Those of you that have an Isonterm refrigeration unit, are you still happy? Those of you who installed the units yourself, do you have any installation suggestions to pass along...especially fellow CD-36 owners.
Thanks in advance,
Mike Thorpe
CD-36 Journey's End
mthorpe@capecod.net
Isotherm refrigeration-still happy??
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
will parker
Re: Isotherm refrigeration-still happy??
My biggest problems are not with the unit, per se, but with the conditions where I keep my boat. I dock the boat at a marina on the ICW in South Florida. The ICW is very muddy, particularly when there has been much run-off from the local canals due to heavy rains this summer. This is a water-cooled unit, and the source of the water is the ICW in which the boat sits when it is not out in the Atlantic doing what it is supposed to do. As the water is pumped through the sysstem, it deposits a significant part of the mud (and grass, etc.) it is carrying, in the lines and in the pump itself, requiring me to perform regular, frequently recurring maintenance to clean the lines so the water can continue to flow freely. While this may sound simple , remember this is a boat we're talking about. There is no such thing as a simple maintenance job on a boat, and this is one more of such jobs.
In addition, I need to go back and re-read Larry Demer's description of his added insulation. Although we both have a CD30, mine is the "B" layout (no "V" berth and I have a quarter-berth where Larry's icebox islocated). I think my insulation job is going to be tougher than his was. Since I don't have the extra insulation installed, I don't know whether it would keep the ice from melting as it does now when I must leave dock power.
Further, I felt compelled to add a 100 watt solar panel principally to feed the refrigerator, although I will certainly need it on longer cruises anyway, for the autopilot, nav lights, etc.
The need for more insulation and the demands of other electrical systmes are, of course, not related to the isotherm refrigeration.
But, yes, I still like the system and would recommend it.
Will Parker
"Jambalaya"
whildenp@flinet.com
In addition, I need to go back and re-read Larry Demer's description of his added insulation. Although we both have a CD30, mine is the "B" layout (no "V" berth and I have a quarter-berth where Larry's icebox islocated). I think my insulation job is going to be tougher than his was. Since I don't have the extra insulation installed, I don't know whether it would keep the ice from melting as it does now when I must leave dock power.
Further, I felt compelled to add a 100 watt solar panel principally to feed the refrigerator, although I will certainly need it on longer cruises anyway, for the autopilot, nav lights, etc.
The need for more insulation and the demands of other electrical systmes are, of course, not related to the isotherm refrigeration.
But, yes, I still like the system and would recommend it.
Will Parker
"Jambalaya"
Mike Thorpe wrote: I'm considering adding a water cooled Isotherm refrigeration unit to my CD-36 so I searched the history files for fellow CD owners experience with Isotherm. Every thing I found was positive. Those of you that have an Isonterm refrigeration unit, are you still happy? Those of you who installed the units yourself, do you have any installation suggestions to pass along...especially fellow CD-36 owners.
Thanks in advance,
Mike Thorpe
CD-36 Journey's End
whildenp@flinet.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Isotherm refrigeration-still happy??
Will,
You need to filter that cooling water~! Use an intake strainer for the large pieces of crud, and a 5 or 10 micron filter for it's output. Then you will not have the problems with clogged cooling lines, but you might see frequent filter element changes in that muddy water.
My installation uses the Isotherm SP system, which has no water pump or fan. It uses the water in the galley sink's drain pipe to cool the heat exchanger in the Isotherm supplied seacock. This system works wonderfully, and I would not change anything Isotherm supplied.
I did make a freezer out of acrylic plastic, and htis worked very well. But I will make version II this winter. The original version had a 1' x 2' 5in. box that acted as the freezer, which it certainly did well..keeping steaks, roasts and chicken frozen solid for 3 weeks straight while we were on the trip this summer.
I will increase this box enough to accomodate two metal ice cube trays that hang vertically (made by Adler-Barber for thier machines, and costing $27 each at West Marine) along side and in contact with the holding plate. The opening into the icebox will need to be made slightly larger too, to accomodate larger packages. We also want to add a melting ice diversion wall to keep any water from melting ice off the freezer top..or it will freeze over the trap door, preventing it from opening.
These are things that are easily built into a home brew freezer partition like this.
So in total, the freezer/reefer was a success.. I was using it this weekend..out of the water~! Using cool air only in the galley sink hose for cooling. Since the temps were below freezing at night (the marina froze over two days straight), this was not the big deal it sounds to be. On a CD36, you will need the larger units which are cooled with a fan or water pump. I cannot speak to these cases directly, but would suggest that the products from Isotherm are good quality and seem tobe good performers...based on my one example anyway.
Cheers.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Lying in the hard on Lake Superior~~~~
demers@sgi.com
You need to filter that cooling water~! Use an intake strainer for the large pieces of crud, and a 5 or 10 micron filter for it's output. Then you will not have the problems with clogged cooling lines, but you might see frequent filter element changes in that muddy water.
My installation uses the Isotherm SP system, which has no water pump or fan. It uses the water in the galley sink's drain pipe to cool the heat exchanger in the Isotherm supplied seacock. This system works wonderfully, and I would not change anything Isotherm supplied.
I did make a freezer out of acrylic plastic, and htis worked very well. But I will make version II this winter. The original version had a 1' x 2' 5in. box that acted as the freezer, which it certainly did well..keeping steaks, roasts and chicken frozen solid for 3 weeks straight while we were on the trip this summer.
I will increase this box enough to accomodate two metal ice cube trays that hang vertically (made by Adler-Barber for thier machines, and costing $27 each at West Marine) along side and in contact with the holding plate. The opening into the icebox will need to be made slightly larger too, to accomodate larger packages. We also want to add a melting ice diversion wall to keep any water from melting ice off the freezer top..or it will freeze over the trap door, preventing it from opening.
These are things that are easily built into a home brew freezer partition like this.
So in total, the freezer/reefer was a success.. I was using it this weekend..out of the water~! Using cool air only in the galley sink hose for cooling. Since the temps were below freezing at night (the marina froze over two days straight), this was not the big deal it sounds to be. On a CD36, you will need the larger units which are cooled with a fan or water pump. I cannot speak to these cases directly, but would suggest that the products from Isotherm are good quality and seem tobe good performers...based on my one example anyway.
Cheers.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Lying in the hard on Lake Superior~~~~
Mike Thorpe wrote: I'm considering adding a water cooled Isotherm refrigeration unit to my CD-36 so I searched the history files for fellow CD owners experience with Isotherm. Every thing I found was positive. Those of you that have an Isonterm refrigeration unit, are you still happy? Those of you who installed the units yourself, do you have any installation suggestions to pass along...especially fellow CD-36 owners.
Thanks in advance,
Mike Thorpe
CD-36 Journey's End
demers@sgi.com
-
Will Parker
Re: Isotherm refrigeration-still happy??
Larry,
I have an intake screen between the seacock and the pump, and an additional small screen just before the pump. Must clean both once a week. Sounds like your system, with no pumps, is the way to go. Unfortunately, when I got my boat, this system was already installed. I think i'll call Isotherm and see if I can convert my system to the one you have without the expense of a whole new system.
I also obtained two a/b ice trays which I hang off the freezer plate. Makes ice fine so long as I am on the dock power setting. But when I switch to the cruiseing setting, the ice begins to melt. I also have acrylic separater panel to create freezer compartment. Again it only works at dock power. When cruising, the beer stays cold and vegetables keep several weeks, but I would not trust it with fresh meat. I do carry stuff which only needs refrigeration, e.g cooked or smoked meats, cheese, etc.
I beleive that if I could increase my insulation, as you did, I would probably cure the problem, but the cure requires major surgery,(probably have to remove entire counter top) and I'm not sure I want to undertake the challenge. So for the present, I will probably just keep drinking my scotch "neat", and eating canned or deli meats.
Thanks for your input on this and much more. I actually have your stuff printed up and neatly kept in a notebook for quick reference.
Will
"Jambalaya"
whildenp@flinet.com
I have an intake screen between the seacock and the pump, and an additional small screen just before the pump. Must clean both once a week. Sounds like your system, with no pumps, is the way to go. Unfortunately, when I got my boat, this system was already installed. I think i'll call Isotherm and see if I can convert my system to the one you have without the expense of a whole new system.
I also obtained two a/b ice trays which I hang off the freezer plate. Makes ice fine so long as I am on the dock power setting. But when I switch to the cruiseing setting, the ice begins to melt. I also have acrylic separater panel to create freezer compartment. Again it only works at dock power. When cruising, the beer stays cold and vegetables keep several weeks, but I would not trust it with fresh meat. I do carry stuff which only needs refrigeration, e.g cooked or smoked meats, cheese, etc.
I beleive that if I could increase my insulation, as you did, I would probably cure the problem, but the cure requires major surgery,(probably have to remove entire counter top) and I'm not sure I want to undertake the challenge. So for the present, I will probably just keep drinking my scotch "neat", and eating canned or deli meats.
Thanks for your input on this and much more. I actually have your stuff printed up and neatly kept in a notebook for quick reference.
Will
"Jambalaya"
Larry DeMers wrote: Will,
You need to filter that cooling water~! Use an intake strainer for the large pieces of crud, and a 5 or 10 micron filter for it's output. Then you will not have the problems with clogged cooling lines, but you might see frequent filter element changes in that muddy water.
My installation uses the Isotherm SP system, which has no water pump or fan. It uses the water in the galley sink's drain pipe to cool the heat exchanger in the Isotherm supplied seacock. This system works wonderfully, and I would not change anything Isotherm supplied.
I did make a freezer out of acrylic plastic, and htis worked very well. But I will make version II this winter. The original version had a 1' x 2' 5in. box that acted as the freezer, which it certainly did well..keeping steaks, roasts and chicken frozen solid for 3 weeks straight while we were on the trip this summer.
I will increase this box enough to accomodate two metal ice cube trays that hang vertically (made by Adler-Barber for thier machines, and costing $27 each at West Marine) along side and in contact with the holding plate. The opening into the icebox will need to be made slightly larger too, to accomodate larger packages. We also want to add a melting ice diversion wall to keep any water from melting ice off the freezer top..or it will freeze over the trap door, preventing it from opening.
These are things that are easily built into a home brew freezer partition like this.
So in total, the freezer/reefer was a success.. I was using it this weekend..out of the water~! Using cool air only in the galley sink hose for cooling. Since the temps were below freezing at night (the marina froze over two days straight), this was not the big deal it sounds to be. On a CD36, you will need the larger units which are cooled with a fan or water pump. I cannot speak to these cases directly, but would suggest that the products from Isotherm are good quality and seem tobe good performers...based on my one example anyway.
Cheers.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Lying in the hard on Lake Superior~~~~
Mike Thorpe wrote: I'm considering adding a water cooled Isotherm refrigeration unit to my CD-36 so I searched the history files for fellow CD owners experience with Isotherm. Every thing I found was positive. Those of you that have an Isonterm refrigeration unit, are you still happy? Those of you who installed the units yourself, do you have any installation suggestions to pass along...especially fellow CD-36 owners.
Thanks in advance,
Mike Thorpe
CD-36 Journey's End
whildenp@flinet.com
-
Mike Thorpe
Re: Isotherm refrigeration-still happy??
Larry & Will
Thank you for your input, it sounds like Isontherm is the way to go. My box is 10 cubic ft so I will have to go with a water cooled unit. None of the SP units are large enough. The engine is out so I was able to add additional foam insulation under box by removing the sound insulation on the port side of the engine compartment and then blowing the foam in. In some places there was as much 6" of space under the box. Hopefully that will help. Now to find out what the big difference, other than price, is between the 4701 model and the 5301 model. Speaking of price, so far Defender seems to have the best price; do either of you know anyplace that might beat Defender?
Once again, thanks.
Mike
CD-36 Journey
mthorpe@capecod.net
Thank you for your input, it sounds like Isontherm is the way to go. My box is 10 cubic ft so I will have to go with a water cooled unit. None of the SP units are large enough. The engine is out so I was able to add additional foam insulation under box by removing the sound insulation on the port side of the engine compartment and then blowing the foam in. In some places there was as much 6" of space under the box. Hopefully that will help. Now to find out what the big difference, other than price, is between the 4701 model and the 5301 model. Speaking of price, so far Defender seems to have the best price; do either of you know anyplace that might beat Defender?
Once again, thanks.
Mike
CD-36 Journey
mthorpe@capecod.net
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Isotherm refrigeration-still happy??
Hi Will,
The Isotherm SP is made for boxes of 6 cu ft. and under, and I suspect yours will be over that figure unfortunately. Isotherm may have a larger one on the way though, so talking to them would be good to do.
Our box stayed between 17 and about 22 degrees whenever we ran it intending to keep things frozen (just put them outside on the deck now..jeesh, is it cold!). I agree, it sounds like you need to insulate. If I may, here is a quick and semi-dirty way to get to your insulating directly. It will sound awful and almost sacriligious to some I am sure, but please consider the benefits of the action first then the slight sacriligious treatment i am proposing.
The insulation has to fill the areas behind the ice box outside walls (the box is actually a hollow tub, filled with foam and encapsulated in a thin wall of fiberglass). In our CD30c the area under and around the icebox tub was devoid of any insulation at all. I got 5 cans of Dow-Corning Pink Urethane spray-in-place insulation (about $2.50 a can) and then I did the dirty deed. I drilled a dozen or so 1 1/4 in. holes **From the inside of the icebox, outwards** towards all four sides and also the bottom. I saved the discs from each of the holes, numbering them for replacement later on.
Next I built an extender for the spray cans consisting of a 3 ft. section of plastic tubing (aquarium tubing) and a metal coat hanger, bent and formed into a handle that I could direct the spray with. I taped the plastic tube to the coat hanger at one end, and then held the other end to get the tube into small areas in the void under the icebox. I used a couple very brite lights shinning down in the holes farthest away from where I was working, so that the void would be illuminated a little. Then I attached the can (do so tightly..they can come off..and they really cause a real mess when they do..believe me! We are still picking little pink pieces of insulation from hidden corners..etc.). Insert the wire coat hanger with tubing attached, and start spraying, moving around andcovering the entire bottom first, then move up higher, adding another layer. The stuff expands a little, but very controllably, so leave a bit of time for the expansion to occur before filling the area up entirely. Finally, bring the insulation right up through the hole you drilled, and use a stick or knife to smoothly cutoff the foam slightly above the hole top. Take teh correctly numbered disc that you saved when the hole was cut, and push it down into the foam until the disc is level with the surrounding surface and clean up any over fill you have -now! Don't wait.
Continue with each hole until done. Allow to cure for a couple days, then mix some epoxy up thinly (no microballoons or fillers). Go to each of the discs and use a sharp knife to clear away all of the foam that is visible, down about 1/32 in. Now coat the disc and it's margins with epoxy. Do so cleanly, creating a flat surface when done. This will waterproof the disc area and seal it off from moisture.
Now this is not the prettiest piece of work, but it is not seen by anyone and is saving you untold work and hours of drilling and fussing to get the same insulation in the same place. It works, it is safe and reliable and extremely functional.
]
The sacrifice in appearances for the inside of the ice box is a small price to pay for the quick and complete insulation application that can be accomplished this way.
Now, as for "...I actually have your stuff printed up and neatly kept in a notebook for quick reference"...
wow..well, I am glad that I can add something that is of use to you.
You make my writting these things worth while..thanks for telling me this. I sometimes feel that nobody reads them due to their length, but I cannot seem to stick to a dictum of shorter is better..even now! ;^))
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
sv DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior except now it's all in the head~~~
demers@sgi.com
The Isotherm SP is made for boxes of 6 cu ft. and under, and I suspect yours will be over that figure unfortunately. Isotherm may have a larger one on the way though, so talking to them would be good to do.
Our box stayed between 17 and about 22 degrees whenever we ran it intending to keep things frozen (just put them outside on the deck now..jeesh, is it cold!). I agree, it sounds like you need to insulate. If I may, here is a quick and semi-dirty way to get to your insulating directly. It will sound awful and almost sacriligious to some I am sure, but please consider the benefits of the action first then the slight sacriligious treatment i am proposing.
The insulation has to fill the areas behind the ice box outside walls (the box is actually a hollow tub, filled with foam and encapsulated in a thin wall of fiberglass). In our CD30c the area under and around the icebox tub was devoid of any insulation at all. I got 5 cans of Dow-Corning Pink Urethane spray-in-place insulation (about $2.50 a can) and then I did the dirty deed. I drilled a dozen or so 1 1/4 in. holes **From the inside of the icebox, outwards** towards all four sides and also the bottom. I saved the discs from each of the holes, numbering them for replacement later on.
Next I built an extender for the spray cans consisting of a 3 ft. section of plastic tubing (aquarium tubing) and a metal coat hanger, bent and formed into a handle that I could direct the spray with. I taped the plastic tube to the coat hanger at one end, and then held the other end to get the tube into small areas in the void under the icebox. I used a couple very brite lights shinning down in the holes farthest away from where I was working, so that the void would be illuminated a little. Then I attached the can (do so tightly..they can come off..and they really cause a real mess when they do..believe me! We are still picking little pink pieces of insulation from hidden corners..etc.). Insert the wire coat hanger with tubing attached, and start spraying, moving around andcovering the entire bottom first, then move up higher, adding another layer. The stuff expands a little, but very controllably, so leave a bit of time for the expansion to occur before filling the area up entirely. Finally, bring the insulation right up through the hole you drilled, and use a stick or knife to smoothly cutoff the foam slightly above the hole top. Take teh correctly numbered disc that you saved when the hole was cut, and push it down into the foam until the disc is level with the surrounding surface and clean up any over fill you have -now! Don't wait.
Continue with each hole until done. Allow to cure for a couple days, then mix some epoxy up thinly (no microballoons or fillers). Go to each of the discs and use a sharp knife to clear away all of the foam that is visible, down about 1/32 in. Now coat the disc and it's margins with epoxy. Do so cleanly, creating a flat surface when done. This will waterproof the disc area and seal it off from moisture.
Now this is not the prettiest piece of work, but it is not seen by anyone and is saving you untold work and hours of drilling and fussing to get the same insulation in the same place. It works, it is safe and reliable and extremely functional.
]
The sacrifice in appearances for the inside of the ice box is a small price to pay for the quick and complete insulation application that can be accomplished this way.
Now, as for "...I actually have your stuff printed up and neatly kept in a notebook for quick reference"...
wow..well, I am glad that I can add something that is of use to you.
You make my writting these things worth while..thanks for telling me this. I sometimes feel that nobody reads them due to their length, but I cannot seem to stick to a dictum of shorter is better..even now! ;^))
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
sv DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior except now it's all in the head~~~
Will Parker wrote: Larry,
I have an intake screen between the seacock and the pump, and an additional small screen just before the pump. Must clean both once a week. Sounds like your system, with no pumps, is the way to go. Unfortunately, when I got my boat, this system was already installed. I think i'll call Isotherm and see if I can convert my system to the one you have without the expense of a whole new system.
I also obtained two a/b ice trays which I hang off the freezer plate. Makes ice fine so long as I am on the dock power setting. But when I switch to the cruiseing setting, the ice begins to melt. I also have acrylic separater panel to create freezer compartment. Again it only works at dock power. When cruising, the beer stays cold and vegetables keep several weeks, but I would not trust it with fresh meat. I do carry stuff which only needs refrigeration, e.g cooked or smoked meats, cheese, etc.
I beleive that if I could increase my insulation, as you did, I would probably cure the problem, but the cure requires major surgery,(probably have to remove entire counter top) and I'm not sure I want to undertake the challenge. So for the present, I will probably just keep drinking my scotch "neat", and eating canned or deli meats.
Thanks for your input on this and much more. I actually have your stuff printed up and neatly kept in a notebook for quick reference.
Will
"Jambalaya"Larry DeMers wrote: Will,
You need to filter that cooling water~! Use an intake strainer for the large pieces of crud, and a 5 or 10 micron filter for it's output. Then you will not have the problems with clogged cooling lines, but you might see frequent filter element changes in that muddy water.
My installation uses the Isotherm SP system, which has no water pump or fan. It uses the water in the galley sink's drain pipe to cool the heat exchanger in the Isotherm supplied seacock. This system works wonderfully, and I would not change anything Isotherm supplied.
I did make a freezer out of acrylic plastic, and htis worked very well. But I will make version II this winter. The original version had a 1' x 2' 5in. box that acted as the freezer, which it certainly did well..keeping steaks, roasts and chicken frozen solid for 3 weeks straight while we were on the trip this summer.
I will increase this box enough to accomodate two metal ice cube trays that hang vertically (made by Adler-Barber for thier machines, and costing $27 each at West Marine) along side and in contact with the holding plate. The opening into the icebox will need to be made slightly larger too, to accomodate larger packages. We also want to add a melting ice diversion wall to keep any water from melting ice off the freezer top..or it will freeze over the trap door, preventing it from opening.
These are things that are easily built into a home brew freezer partition like this.
So in total, the freezer/reefer was a success.. I was using it this weekend..out of the water~! Using cool air only in the galley sink hose for cooling. Since the temps were below freezing at night (the marina froze over two days straight), this was not the big deal it sounds to be. On a CD36, you will need the larger units which are cooled with a fan or water pump. I cannot speak to these cases directly, but would suggest that the products from Isotherm are good quality and seem tobe good performers...based on my one example anyway.
Cheers.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Lying in the hard on Lake Superior~~~~
Mike Thorpe wrote: I'm considering adding a water cooled Isotherm refrigeration unit to my CD-36 so I searched the history files for fellow CD owners experience with Isotherm. Every thing I found was positive. Those of you that have an Isonterm refrigeration unit, are you still happy? Those of you who installed the units yourself, do you have any installation suggestions to pass along...especially fellow CD-36 owners.
Thanks in advance,
Mike Thorpe
CD-36 Journey's End
demers@sgi.com
-
Michael Heintz
Re: Isotherm refrigeration
Mike,
I have the SP unit in My MkII, it has worked great this summer, even without additional insulation.
If you have any technical questions, Call Mark Fruehauf at Great Water Inc, the distributor. Defender will be useless to you.
Mark's number is Toll free 866-209-6132. He knows all and is VERY helpful!!!!
Michael Heintz
mzenith@aol.com
I have the SP unit in My MkII, it has worked great this summer, even without additional insulation.
If you have any technical questions, Call Mark Fruehauf at Great Water Inc, the distributor. Defender will be useless to you.
Mark's number is Toll free 866-209-6132. He knows all and is VERY helpful!!!!
Michael Heintz
mzenith@aol.com
-
Matt Cawthorne
Re: Isotherm refrigeration-still happy??
Mike,
Defender will usually have the best price, but it is best to check other catalogues, since others come in a little lower sometimes. I do not use defender on most items any more because they are just plain bad when it comes to having enough staff to make the purchase smooth. Last year I ordered new panels for my electrical system. They sent one wrong panel. By the time I got their customer service to fix the problem Heart had gone out of production on the EVI panels. I still do not have a suitable replacement. I am holding my breath that McKenna yachts (they bought the product line) will deal with a single owner and make the panel up for me. I have had other problems with them in the past, claiming to send product out right away and then not sending it out for two weeks. My recommendation with them is to order prior to mid-January. After the beginning of March they are overloaded and things get difficult.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
Defender will usually have the best price, but it is best to check other catalogues, since others come in a little lower sometimes. I do not use defender on most items any more because they are just plain bad when it comes to having enough staff to make the purchase smooth. Last year I ordered new panels for my electrical system. They sent one wrong panel. By the time I got their customer service to fix the problem Heart had gone out of production on the EVI panels. I still do not have a suitable replacement. I am holding my breath that McKenna yachts (they bought the product line) will deal with a single owner and make the panel up for me. I have had other problems with them in the past, claiming to send product out right away and then not sending it out for two weeks. My recommendation with them is to order prior to mid-January. After the beginning of March they are overloaded and things get difficult.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Isotherm refrigeration-still happy?? ..Not with Defender
Matt,
That is my experience with Defender completely. They are in mid-stream conversion of their order-taking and shipping dept. functions to computer based ordering, and it is a bigger mess than usual even.
Their prices are lower than most others, but if you put in a regular out-of-the-catalog order, they will wait sometimes 2 weeks to even *pick* the damn item from their shelves, making their estimate of whether the item is in stock rather meaningless. By the time it winds it's way to shipping, and out their very slow doors, we are at the three to four week point during busy months (>March). Add another week for UPS to deliver and you have waited about 5 -6 weeks for that item. I bought a lot of electrical stuff over the past two years, as we were upgrading our whole boat. Some came from Defender due to the large price differences. I was foreced to use their "expedited" service, which costs more in shipping plus there is an additional charge per item. They do pick the item the next day however, and it comes to you in 2 days or so after it clears their slow shipping dept. I have even used their "personal shopper" service..called an "outfitter". He was great as far as grabbing the gear off the shelves himself, then walking it down to the shipping dept himself. But then the shipping dept sits on the package for days on end unless you paid for their expedited service..so you gain nothing there either.
I swear I could run that place 100% better and faster than it is now run..and my entire experience is as an engineer and mexican restaurant owner..not a discout marine parts retailer. What a waste..They could eat West Marine off the landscape if they played their cards right.
To be honest, i had significant delays and trouble with Defender, JSI/Sailnet, Consumer Marine, Ray Marine and West last summer. So it was not limited to Defender. But they led the pack by far.
Oh and you say you have something going back to Defender on return? Count on 6-9 mn. before seeing the check, if they even allow the item to be returned. I had to call three times over a 4 mn. period to get a refund that Heart Interface itself authorized, due to faulty advertising in the Defender catalog about compatibility of some of their products, in the Defender catalog. They simply were not intended nor built to work together, yet had been advertised as able to work together. Frustrating experience even to revisit a year later!!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
That is my experience with Defender completely. They are in mid-stream conversion of their order-taking and shipping dept. functions to computer based ordering, and it is a bigger mess than usual even.
Their prices are lower than most others, but if you put in a regular out-of-the-catalog order, they will wait sometimes 2 weeks to even *pick* the damn item from their shelves, making their estimate of whether the item is in stock rather meaningless. By the time it winds it's way to shipping, and out their very slow doors, we are at the three to four week point during busy months (>March). Add another week for UPS to deliver and you have waited about 5 -6 weeks for that item. I bought a lot of electrical stuff over the past two years, as we were upgrading our whole boat. Some came from Defender due to the large price differences. I was foreced to use their "expedited" service, which costs more in shipping plus there is an additional charge per item. They do pick the item the next day however, and it comes to you in 2 days or so after it clears their slow shipping dept. I have even used their "personal shopper" service..called an "outfitter". He was great as far as grabbing the gear off the shelves himself, then walking it down to the shipping dept himself. But then the shipping dept sits on the package for days on end unless you paid for their expedited service..so you gain nothing there either.
I swear I could run that place 100% better and faster than it is now run..and my entire experience is as an engineer and mexican restaurant owner..not a discout marine parts retailer. What a waste..They could eat West Marine off the landscape if they played their cards right.
To be honest, i had significant delays and trouble with Defender, JSI/Sailnet, Consumer Marine, Ray Marine and West last summer. So it was not limited to Defender. But they led the pack by far.
Oh and you say you have something going back to Defender on return? Count on 6-9 mn. before seeing the check, if they even allow the item to be returned. I had to call three times over a 4 mn. period to get a refund that Heart Interface itself authorized, due to faulty advertising in the Defender catalog about compatibility of some of their products, in the Defender catalog. They simply were not intended nor built to work together, yet had been advertised as able to work together. Frustrating experience even to revisit a year later!!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Matt Cawthorne wrote: Mike,
Defender will usually have the best price, but it is best to check other catalogues, since others come in a little lower sometimes. I do not use defender on most items any more because they are just plain bad when it comes to having enough staff to make the purchase smooth. Last year I ordered new panels for my electrical system. They sent one wrong panel. By the time I got their customer service to fix the problem Heart had gone out of production on the EVI panels. I still do not have a suitable replacement. I am holding my breath that McKenna yachts (they bought the product line) will deal with a single owner and make the panel up for me. I have had other problems with them in the past, claiming to send product out right away and then not sending it out for two weeks. My recommendation with them is to order prior to mid-January. After the beginning of March they are overloaded and things get difficult.
Matt
demers@sgi.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Isotherm refrigeration-still happy??
Mike,
The only other dealer that I am familiar with is "Great Waters" who appear to be the big importers of Isotherm products. Defender is it I guess.
The quality of the equipment is outstanding, their instructions clear and well laid out, and the product works as described if not better. My experience is with the SP unit, but I expect their quality carries throughout their line.
By the way..believe their specs about Ah useage on their products. They advertise 16 Ah average for the SP unit, and that is what we get unless it is 95 deg. out and I run the engine a lot (no insulation on the engine side, exterior to the reefer yet. Will install foil covered insulation to reflect some of the heat from the engine etc.). Then we may hit 20 Ah tops.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Stuck on the Hard, on Lake Superior~~~
demers@sgi.com
The only other dealer that I am familiar with is "Great Waters" who appear to be the big importers of Isotherm products. Defender is it I guess.
The quality of the equipment is outstanding, their instructions clear and well laid out, and the product works as described if not better. My experience is with the SP unit, but I expect their quality carries throughout their line.
By the way..believe their specs about Ah useage on their products. They advertise 16 Ah average for the SP unit, and that is what we get unless it is 95 deg. out and I run the engine a lot (no insulation on the engine side, exterior to the reefer yet. Will install foil covered insulation to reflect some of the heat from the engine etc.). Then we may hit 20 Ah tops.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Stuck on the Hard, on Lake Superior~~~
Mike Thorpe wrote: Larry & Will
Thank you for your input, it sounds like Isontherm is the way to go. My box is 10 cubic ft so I will have to go with a water cooled unit. None of the SP units are large enough. The engine is out so I was able to add additional foam insulation under box by removing the sound insulation on the port side of the engine compartment and then blowing the foam in. In some places there was as much 6" of space under the box. Hopefully that will help. Now to find out what the big difference, other than price, is between the 4701 model and the 5301 model. Speaking of price, so far Defender seems to have the best price; do either of you know anyplace that might beat Defender?
Once again, thanks.
Mike
CD-36 Journey
demers@sgi.com
-
Don Carr
Defender..you get what you pay for..
Larry;
Not to be off topic but I shop frequently at Defender as it's in Waterford-New London near the boat; convenience is the only motivation.
If you think mail order is bad...just wander through the warehouse sometime and try to find a clerk.
Granted marine supplies are not cheap but I found long ago that generally you get what you pay for. If your time and personal aggravation are worth $10-20 discount..go for it.
carrds@us.ibm.com
Not to be off topic but I shop frequently at Defender as it's in Waterford-New London near the boat; convenience is the only motivation.
If you think mail order is bad...just wander through the warehouse sometime and try to find a clerk.
Granted marine supplies are not cheap but I found long ago that generally you get what you pay for. If your time and personal aggravation are worth $10-20 discount..go for it.
carrds@us.ibm.com
-
Will Parker
Re: Isotherm refrigeration-still happy?? ..Not with Defender
Larry,
Don't forget that the most important function served to the marine industry by Defender is that West Marine and BoatUS both offer to match "any advertised price". I just bought a Siemens 100 watt solar panel from West at the Defender advertised price of $580 as opposed to the West catalogue price for the identical item of $899.
So, hooray for Defender!
And thanks for the detail on how you insulated your ice box. Sounds like it may be doable, even by me.
Will
"Jambalaya"
Matt,
whildenp@flinet.com
Don't forget that the most important function served to the marine industry by Defender is that West Marine and BoatUS both offer to match "any advertised price". I just bought a Siemens 100 watt solar panel from West at the Defender advertised price of $580 as opposed to the West catalogue price for the identical item of $899.
So, hooray for Defender!
And thanks for the detail on how you insulated your ice box. Sounds like it may be doable, even by me.
Will
"Jambalaya"
Matt,
Larry DeMers wrote: That is my experience with Defender completely. They are in mid-stream conversion of their order-taking and shipping dept. functions to computer based ordering, and it is a bigger mess than usual even.
Their prices are lower than most others, but if you put in a regular out-of-the-catalog order, they will wait sometimes 2 weeks to even *pick* the damn item from their shelves, making their estimate of whether the item is in stock rather meaningless. By the time it winds it's way to shipping, and out their very slow doors, we are at the three to four week point during busy months (>March). Add another week for UPS to deliver and you have waited about 5 -6 weeks for that item. I bought a lot of electrical stuff over the past two years, as we were upgrading our whole boat. Some came from Defender due to the large price differences. I was foreced to use their "expedited" service, which costs more in shipping plus there is an additional charge per item. They do pick the item the next day however, and it comes to you in 2 days or so after it clears their slow shipping dept. I have even used their "personal shopper" service..called an "outfitter". He was great as far as grabbing the gear off the shelves himself, then walking it down to the shipping dept himself. But then the shipping dept sits on the package for days on end unless you paid for their expedited service..so you gain nothing there either.
I swear I could run that place 100% better and faster than it is now run..and my entire experience is as an engineer and mexican restaurant owner..not a discout marine parts retailer. What a waste..They could eat West Marine off the landscape if they played their cards right.
To be honest, i had significant delays and trouble with Defender, JSI/Sailnet, Consumer Marine, Ray Marine and West last summer. So it was not limited to Defender. But they led the pack by far.
Oh and you say you have something going back to Defender on return? Count on 6-9 mn. before seeing the check, if they even allow the item to be returned. I had to call three times over a 4 mn. period to get a refund that Heart Interface itself authorized, due to faulty advertising in the Defender catalog about compatibility of some of their products, in the Defender catalog. They simply were not intended nor built to work together, yet had been advertised as able to work together. Frustrating experience even to revisit a year later!!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Matt Cawthorne wrote: Mike,
Defender will usually have the best price, but it is best to check other catalogues, since others come in a little lower sometimes. I do not use defender on most items any more because they are just plain bad when it comes to having enough staff to make the purchase smooth. Last year I ordered new panels for my electrical system. They sent one wrong panel. By the time I got their customer service to fix the problem Heart had gone out of production on the EVI panels. I still do not have a suitable replacement. I am holding my breath that McKenna yachts (they bought the product line) will deal with a single owner and make the panel up for me. I have had other problems with them in the past, claiming to send product out right away and then not sending it out for two weeks. My recommendation with them is to order prior to mid-January. After the beginning of March they are overloaded and things get difficult.
Matt
whildenp@flinet.com