CO is a cummulative problem. It stays attached to the hemoglobin in blood for many days before breaking away, and can build with each exposure. It is quite common to see people drop after several low level exposures over a period of days. Feeling no ill effect after one or two events does not mean your heating system is ok. Also, keep an eye on the kids, as their blood has a particular affinity for CO. Children are a CO "canary in the coal mine"; they drop first.
Stay safe all,
Jon
CD25 Sovereign
Oil Lamp for Heat?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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matt cawthorne
Lets not let the CO thing kill us!
Larry,
Presumably you have a chimney with your wood heater. That is what is getting the CO out of your boat along with the other combustion products. We have a Force 10 Kerosene heater with a small chimney. We keep a CO detector operating all the time on the boat. It went off one time while operating the oven and 2 burners on the stove along with the heater. We immediately opened the cabin, evacuated for a while to minimize exposure and shut down the stove. I hate to think what might have happened if we did not have the detector. None of the "kid canaries" dropped over, and nobody got lethargic or had headaches so I guess we still had some margin.
A number of years back someone in Annapolis was killed by the CO from a propane water heater on their boat while taking a shower.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
Presumably you have a chimney with your wood heater. That is what is getting the CO out of your boat along with the other combustion products. We have a Force 10 Kerosene heater with a small chimney. We keep a CO detector operating all the time on the boat. It went off one time while operating the oven and 2 burners on the stove along with the heater. We immediately opened the cabin, evacuated for a while to minimize exposure and shut down the stove. I hate to think what might have happened if we did not have the detector. None of the "kid canaries" dropped over, and nobody got lethargic or had headaches so I guess we still had some margin.
A number of years back someone in Annapolis was killed by the CO from a propane water heater on their boat while taking a shower.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Tom
Simple question turns into a debate on heaters
This started out as a simple question abut oil lamps and turned into a debate about the safety of heaters on board and the dangers of CO. So in answer to your question: Yes, the oil lamps at BoatUS are kerosene.In answer to your question about heat output, I have the largest one made by Holland. What they call the "Trawler" version. It has the circular wick and thus more heat output than the flat wick lamps. I would say the small lamps with a flat wick maybe an inch wide don't put out enough heat to be noticeable. The trawler lamp puts out a fair amount of heat. Not enough to make the boat warm in cold weather, but enough to take the chill off the air in weather in the mid forties say. For temperatures in the 50s it's probably all you'd need. It doesn't throw as much heat as a terra cotta clay pot on the stove, for example (BTW to keep them from cracking you have to heat them gradually. Set them near the burner for awhile and rotate them around, then set them on the burner on a low flame, before you raise the flame).
On many CDs and on mine there is a dorade vent on the starboard side. I hang the lamp near that vent and then crack the hatch just a little and haven't had a problem with CO that I know of. If they were that dangerous we couldn't have them on boats at all much less unvented stoves, but it pays to be aware and use some common sense (which as the man says isn't all that common). Your stove wasn't designed to heat your boat in cold weather by running the oven and all the burners for hours on end, so common sense says that you don't try to use it for a purpose that is wasn't intended.
If you're going to be sailing in really cold weather neither a lamp nor a pot on the stove is going to be adequate and you need a real heater that is properly vented etc. But if you're going to be sailing in cool weather a cabin lamp does generate a fair amount of heat and will take the worst of the chill off the air for you. I've had my trawler lamp for 12 years and it's always worked fine. People have told me that they got the smaller version from Holland that looks somewhat like it but has a flat wick and they had trouble with those. Trouble meaning they go out, flare up, and don't burn evenly. They are all beastly expensive these days. Hope this helps.
Read in Don Casey's book that he used a kerosene lamp on his Triton and it heated the cabin fairly well even in relatively cold weather. Does anyone have a lamp they recommend, and can you comment on the heat output. My new-to-me boat has NO heat currently and we want to do some fall cruising (starting this weekend). I've seen various oil lamps at BoatUS and SailNet websites - are these the same as kerosene? Any help is appreciated,
TomCambria@mindspring.com
On many CDs and on mine there is a dorade vent on the starboard side. I hang the lamp near that vent and then crack the hatch just a little and haven't had a problem with CO that I know of. If they were that dangerous we couldn't have them on boats at all much less unvented stoves, but it pays to be aware and use some common sense (which as the man says isn't all that common). Your stove wasn't designed to heat your boat in cold weather by running the oven and all the burners for hours on end, so common sense says that you don't try to use it for a purpose that is wasn't intended.
If you're going to be sailing in really cold weather neither a lamp nor a pot on the stove is going to be adequate and you need a real heater that is properly vented etc. But if you're going to be sailing in cool weather a cabin lamp does generate a fair amount of heat and will take the worst of the chill off the air for you. I've had my trawler lamp for 12 years and it's always worked fine. People have told me that they got the smaller version from Holland that looks somewhat like it but has a flat wick and they had trouble with those. Trouble meaning they go out, flare up, and don't burn evenly. They are all beastly expensive these days. Hope this helps.
Read in Don Casey's book that he used a kerosene lamp on his Triton and it heated the cabin fairly well even in relatively cold weather. Does anyone have a lamp they recommend, and can you comment on the heat output. My new-to-me boat has NO heat currently and we want to do some fall cruising (starting this weekend). I've seen various oil lamps at BoatUS and SailNet websites - are these the same as kerosene? Any help is appreciated,
Dan wrote: Dan
TomCambria@mindspring.com
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Dan
Thank you all
Thanks to all who've responded to my post. Apologies for stirring up this debate, but this is just the type of exchange I was looking for. Turns out we won't get out this weekend, but are entered in the Good Old Boat Regatta in Annapolis next weekend. We'll sail up from Chesapeake Beach and make a couple other stops - probably a four day cruise including the race day. Oil lamp doesn't seem to be the way to go. I may bring along a flower pot and give a try with the hatch open, but will probably rely more on warm clothes and thick sleeping bags. Temps will likely be mid-60s during the day and mid-40s at night. If anyone from this board will be there, let me know and perhaps we can knock back a beer or three. My boat is a blue Bristol 27 named "Magpie," sail #87. Thanks again,
Dan
foxbd@home.com
Dan
Dan wrote: Read in Don Casey's book that he used a kerosene lamp on his Triton and it heated the cabin fairly well even in relatively cold weather. Does anyone have a lamp they recommend, and can you comment on the heat output. My new-to-me boat has NO heat currently and we want to do some fall cruising (starting this weekend). I've seen various oil lamps at BoatUS and SailNet websites - are these the same as kerosene? Any help is appreciated,
Dan
foxbd@home.com
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Russell
Clean burning flames don't produce carbon monoxide
The full burning of a carbon fuel produces carbon DIoxide, rather than carbon MONoxide. Carbon monoxide results from partial combustion, for example, from a smoldering fire. A stove or lantern working in good condition should produce almost no carbon monoxide. For what it is worth, gasoline engines produce more carbon monoxide than diesel engines.
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Clay Stalker
Re: Simple question turns into a debate on heaters
I am using a Trawler Jr. kersosene lamp with the round wick on a CD27....seems to warm the cabin okay with temps in the 40-50 range...haven't used the clay pot yet, but was on a Flicka this morning with one and it was working fine. I keep one of the ports open, or if really cold, just rely on the dorade...just use it for an hour or two at a time when I get up....should be okay. But I agree, for cold weather extended cruising, got to have a fixed, vented system.
Clay Stalker
CD 27 SALSA
Bristol, Rhode Island
cstalker@cheshire.net
Clay Stalker
CD 27 SALSA
Bristol, Rhode Island
Tom wrote: This started out as a simple question abut oil lamps and turned into a debate about the safety of heaters on board and the dangers of CO. So in answer to your question: Yes, the oil lamps at BoatUS are kerosene.In answer to your question about heat output, I have the largest one made by Holland. What they call the "Trawler" version. It has the circular wick and thus more heat output than the flat wick lamps. I would say the small lamps with a flat wick maybe an inch wide don't put out enough heat to be noticeable. The trawler lamp puts out a fair amount of heat. Not enough to make the boat warm in cold weather, but enough to take the chill off the air in weather in the mid forties say. For temperatures in the 50s it's probably all you'd need. It doesn't throw as much heat as a terra cotta clay pot on the stove, for example (BTW to keep them from cracking you have to heat them gradually. Set them near the burner for awhile and rotate them around, then set them on the burner on a low flame, before you raise the flame).
On many CDs and on mine there is a dorade vent on the starboard side. I hang the lamp near that vent and then crack the hatch just a little and haven't had a problem with CO that I know of. If they were that dangerous we couldn't have them on boats at all much less unvented stoves, but it pays to be aware and use some common sense (which as the man says isn't all that common). Your stove wasn't designed to heat your boat in cold weather by running the oven and all the burners for hours on end, so common sense says that you don't try to use it for a purpose that is wasn't intended.
If you're going to be sailing in really cold weather neither a lamp nor a pot on the stove is going to be adequate and you need a real heater that is properly vented etc. But if you're going to be sailing in cool weather a cabin lamp does generate a fair amount of heat and will take the worst of the chill off the air for you. I've had my trawler lamp for 12 years and it's always worked fine. People have told me that they got the smaller version from Holland that looks somewhat like it but has a flat wick and they had trouble with those. Trouble meaning they go out, flare up, and don't burn evenly. They are all beastly expensive these days. Hope this helps.
Read in Don Casey's book that he used a kerosene lamp on his Triton and it heated the cabin fairly well even in relatively cold weather. Does anyone have a lamp they recommend, and can you comment on the heat output. My new-to-me boat has NO heat currently and we want to do some fall cruising (starting this weekend). I've seen various oil lamps at BoatUS and SailNet websites - are these the same as kerosene? Any help is appreciated,
Dan wrote: Dan
cstalker@cheshire.net
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Pete Sorensen
Re: Oil Lamp for Heat or electric?
Dan, the best option I found while cruising the North West was to use electric. Pull in and get a hook up. I always found using a alchohol heater was adding too much moisture to the cabin.
Space is easy to get pier side in the of season too.
Pete
svmiranda@aol.com
Space is easy to get pier side in the of season too.
Pete
svmiranda@aol.com
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Ken Cave
Re: Force 10 heaters
Larry is right: The Force 10 heater does have an open flame when running, and if you have unruly rug-rats on board, this is not the unit to purchase.
The Force 10 heater, kerosene model, also takes about a minute to make it work as you must fire up the pre-heater (with a little alcohol) before igniting the burner.
Even though I can use diesel, I have followed the recommendations of many owners and use only the best kerosene available-and not the dyed red stuff. With fifteen pounds of pressure in the tank (which can be pumped with a small bicycle pump in a matter of seconds) the flame will not soot up, even with a fan directed on the heater which I use occassionally use from one I mounted across the way to circulate the air.
With fifteen pounds of pressure you should also be able to regulate the burner without a problem. Keeping it on low makes an even heat-and the heat does dry out the boat in no time as well as your rain gear. You are not adding moisture, as the unit is vented.
I looked at the other models out there, and opted not to install a propane unit as I did not want to fool around with the extra hoses, valves, etc. It takes a whole lot to cause an explosion with kerosene. We all know what happens to a propane system that is mal-functioning.
Cutting a hole in the deck also gives me shivers-and I have seen some that were cut right through the strength points for the mast! On the CD 28, I was able to miss all this by bending my one inch exhaust flu and still mount it on the cabin wall with access to the sink area for my tank.
Hope this helps
Ken Cave
bcave@whidbey.net
The Force 10 heater, kerosene model, also takes about a minute to make it work as you must fire up the pre-heater (with a little alcohol) before igniting the burner.
Even though I can use diesel, I have followed the recommendations of many owners and use only the best kerosene available-and not the dyed red stuff. With fifteen pounds of pressure in the tank (which can be pumped with a small bicycle pump in a matter of seconds) the flame will not soot up, even with a fan directed on the heater which I use occassionally use from one I mounted across the way to circulate the air.
With fifteen pounds of pressure you should also be able to regulate the burner without a problem. Keeping it on low makes an even heat-and the heat does dry out the boat in no time as well as your rain gear. You are not adding moisture, as the unit is vented.
I looked at the other models out there, and opted not to install a propane unit as I did not want to fool around with the extra hoses, valves, etc. It takes a whole lot to cause an explosion with kerosene. We all know what happens to a propane system that is mal-functioning.
Cutting a hole in the deck also gives me shivers-and I have seen some that were cut right through the strength points for the mast! On the CD 28, I was able to miss all this by bending my one inch exhaust flu and still mount it on the cabin wall with access to the sink area for my tank.
Hope this helps
Ken Cave
bcave@whidbey.net