GPS to PC and Maptech

[Richard Feffer]

I recently purchased a Garmin 126 GPS. I'm trying, unsucessfully so far, to interface the GPS with a laptop and run Maptech navagation software. I have not been able to get the software to communicate with the GPS. I tried running HyperTerminal to check the link between the two. I get intermittent flow of characters. I believe that I have the two cables (one from Garmin and one from Maptech) connected properly. Has anyone been able to get their Garmin 126 to work with Maptech??? The Maptech works fine with an Appollo handheld, but I prefer not to have the clutter of the extra cables.
Thanks,
Richard



RichFef@Prodigy.net

[John R.]

I recently purchased a Garmin 126 GPS. I'm trying, unsucessfully so far, to interface the GPS with a laptop and run Maptech navagation software. I have not been able to get the software to communicate with the GPS. I tried running HyperTerminal to check the link between the two. I get intermittent flow of characters. I believe that I have the two cables (one from Garmin and one from Maptech) connected properly. Has anyone been able to get their Garmin 126 to work with Maptech??? The Maptech works fine with an Appollo handheld, but I prefer not to have the clutter of the extra cables.
Thanks,
Richard

I found your remarks interesting because I just purchased a laptop last week to use for chartplotting with Maptech, Nobletec, NavPak, Cap'n, and a couple others that I'm considering. I've been wondering about the interfacing compatability of the software packages with the various GPS receivers and from many hours of homework I've discovered it really comes down to what combination of GPS and PC software you happen to have.

The various charting software producers have some repair files available for download on their web sites. You might check and see if Maptech has a repair file for the Garmin. Obviously your physical interface is okay since you are having no difficulty with the Apollo.

Is the PC even seeing the Garmin? Are you running a current version of Maptech? Check their site for updates on their download page for your version. Check Garmin's site also on their support page for tech notes on interfacing problems associated with the 126. The 126 receiver is several years old now and maybe Maptech and the Garmin are having a date sensitive issue rear it's ugly head. As far as the cable conductors are concerned you need to confirm which ones on the PC cable are data and ground and which ones on the Garmin cable are the data and ground. I don't think all Garmins are the same, you best contact them.

Post another message when you get it sorted out and explain what the exact problem was. I for one would like to know what you discover.

[zeida]

I've been following the different postings of those interested in interfacing their GPS units with their laptops, Maptech, etc. Mine may be a dumb question, but here it goes: what would be the advantages? Could we actually receive information through the GPS from the satellites, (which in my case I have mounted on the steering pedestal,) and see this same information on the laptop screen below? That to me could be a real advantage, since we could then interface the GPS with the Autopilot, (mine is a Magellan 6500 and uses C-Maps that are upgraded every 6 months) put the boat on course, and if it is raining or there's bad weather and we must go below, we could then still follow the boat's progress on the laptop. Is this possible? What other use could we get out of the laptop interfaced with the GPS?

I have an IBM Thinkpad at the boat and while at the marina, with my telephone line, I can access anything via the internet. I go often into the Maptech website to look at all their charts, info, etc. Once we're off, I depend on my GPS in the cockpit, from where I steer. On the screen I can see the position of the boat at all times, and all the other good info available from the GPS. I have a back-up hand held unit down below, in case we have inclement weather. But mostly, I find the GPS by the steering station to be of the utmost assistance.

I'll be following the comments on the board for updates. Thanks a bunch.
Zeida



zcecil@attglobal.net

[alonzo]

I recently purchased a Garmin 126 GPS. I'm trying, unsucessfully so far, to interface the GPS with a laptop and run Maptech navagation software. I have not been able to get the software to communicate with the GPS. I tried running HyperTerminal to check the link between the two. I get intermittent flow of characters. I believe that I have the two cables (one from Garmin and one from Maptech) connected properly. Has anyone been able to get their Garmin 126 to work with Maptech??? The Maptech works fine with an Appollo handheld, but I prefer not to have the clutter of the extra cables.
Thanks,

By default Garmin's interface is set to garmin/garmin. Perhaps Maptech software wants it set to NMEA (most software does (I use OziExplorer and Delorme's Street Atlas with a GPS III+)).
On the III+ it's something like:
menu->menu->setup->interface->format->Enter
then choose NMEA.

I suspect that in most cases 'if the software ain't Garmin then use NMEA as the communications protocol.'

The only time i need Garmin/Garmin is for uploads from Garmin's MapSource to the gpsIII+ ,,,, Mapsource can read data from the III+ in NMEA protocol.

-- alonzo



ltjones@ualr.edu

[John R]

Okay Zeida, I'm going to take the best shot I can at answering your questions and maybe other people will voice in on this matter as well. I'm still in the discovery stage of evaluating all the advantages but the first and best adavantage I've come across so far is the display size afforded by the PC over a plotter, not to mention the high quality of a PC's TFT display. Another big advantage is the use of a pointing device like a mouse (optical version especially in a boat)or a track ball if a person prefers that. PC's offer many other advantages also. E-mail on board for one, either via a SSB radio or through a PCMCIA interface card to a cell phone. You can get yearly subsription to a service for around $200. Other advantages like word processing capabilities with its associated uses . Watch DVD movies on your PC, (hopefully not while crashing onto a reef)!!! Try that with a chartplotter. Audio playback and recording capabilities, not posible with a chartplotter. Capability of using virtually any popular marine charting media, raster charts, vector charts, Cmaps. Those capabilities depend on which software a person selects and using the Cmap capability requires an inexpensive card reader unit that plugs into a PC's serial port or USB port. Another advantage is weatherfax display and print out(you can do it with a cable interface or by infrared so you don't have to run the big printer cable). You don't need a expensive SSB transceiver to do weatherfax. All you need is a HF receiver like the one made by Sitex or even a portable unit with a headphone jack. Then you only need software like Jcomm32 or Weatherfax 2000 for Windows or similar. Imagine sailing in company with another boat, you receive a weatherfax, you open the file in a paint program and scribble some notes on it and then e-mail the map displayed with your notes to the other boat or even to a land based station like concerned or worried folks at home. Yes, a maritime VHF call to home or a regular call to another vessel has been done for years. That has advantages and so does e-mail.

The best way to actually appreciate the differences between a chart on a chartplotter and a chart on a PC is to download the various demo softwares available. Try all their features out on one of the included demo charts then go down to West, Boat U.S. or Joe Blows electronics shop and try out a high end color chartplotter that costs over twice as much as a high quality used or refurbished laptop or about the same price as a decent new laptop and you will see the big differences first hand. Way too many to describe. Like the old saying goes "seeing is believing" and one could also say "using is believing".

There is one big adavantage to a chartplotter, water resistance for exterior use. Forget that with an off the shelf laptop. There are marinized versions but the cost becomes ridiculous for an average boater. BUT a laptop in the cabin interfaced to a radar with chartplotting capability (ie: Raytheon) at the helm or to a small reasonably priced plotter like the Standard CP150 would be an ideal setup. Especially the radar version. Raymarine makes software called RayChart which is the perfect setup with one of their plotting capable radars and a PC.

Now, Nobeltec's Navigation Suite and others have the radar overlay feature which can be layered over a chart displayed on the PC showing any target reference with EBL (electronic bearing line). Combine that with the realtime positioning of your vessel on the chart and you have a fantastic piece of nav gear. In addition, imagine being able to track a thunderstorm or squall line movement relative to your boats movement. Plus at the click of a mouse you have all sorts of weather maps that have been saved in the background while you have been doing other things. There are so many other advantages of a PC over a chartplotter that you have to look into the differences and experience their use to get a good understanding about the two. It would take me a long time to post all the things I've learned on this subject but I will communicate more with you by mail.

To answer your questions directly:

I've been following the different postings of those interested in interfacing their GPS units with their laptops, Maptech, etc. Mine may be a dumb question, but here it goes: what would be the advantages?

See above comments.

Could we actually receive information through the GPS from the satellites, (which in my case I have mounted on the steering pedestal,) and see this same information on the laptop screen below?

ABSOLUTELY......and more!

That to me could be a real advantage, since we could then interface the GPS with the Autopilot, (mine is a Magellan 6500 and uses C-Maps that are upgraded every 6 months) put the boat on course, and if it is raining or there's bad weather and we must go below, we could then still follow the boat's progress on the laptop. Is this possible?

Absolutely again! But you can also do so with most chartplotters, some only interface with a pilot on 0183 and many older pilots currently in use require 0180 or 0180CDX. Most new pilots use 0183. There are NMEA conversion boxes available too. Remember the PC plotting software is a realtime display of the boats position on a chart and can be configured to record a track and reverse routing and all the other bells and whistles you can imagine. You can set up a complete route in seconds. Going below and leaving the boat in the sole control of a PC and pilot is not a good idea unless you have a way of keeping a lookout but you could get really creative and mount a tiny digital video camera somewhere on deck that would display a view on the PC display and you could activate a a radar display also. Not something I would do but the capability does exist at low cost and with relatively simple digital gear.

What other use could we get out of the laptop interfaced with the GPS?

I have an IBM Thinkpad at the boat and while at the marina, with my telephone line, I can access anything via the internet. I go often into the Maptech website to look at all their charts, info, etc. Once we're off, I depend on my GPS in the cockpit, from where I steer. On the screen I can see the position of the boat at all times, and all the other good info available from the GPS. I have a back-up hand held unit down below, in case we have inclement weather. But mostly, I find the GPS by the steering station to be of the utmost assistance.

You already have a major piece of the pie, the IBM ThinkPad. That also happens to be the laptop I chose. Mainly because of their reputation for durability. Truly wonderful laptops. The Toshibas are nice also. Maptecs are raster charts (graphics files). As you know they look exactly like a NOAA paper chart. I think Maptecs user interface is the best. Very clean and simple. Nobeltec has a lot more flexibility and features though. You do pay for the difference. Having a backup GPS or any electronic navigation tool is without question a wise practice. With a radio or cell connection you can do everything cruising or offshore with your PC that you are doing at the dock now.

I'll be following the comments on the board for updates. Thanks a bunch.
Zeida

[Brian W.]

Thought I'd throw $.02 on the laptop vs. chartplotter issue.

I've been using the laptop route interfaced with a Garmin 45 for years. Used different versions of software and charts (Cap'n, Maptech, Softcharts etc.) The charts are excellent and the system works great.

As John pointed out, I've also e-mailed, checked weather charts on line, and at night, even watched DVDs.

And with all that said, we just switched to a chartplotter. May still bring a laptop along for some of the other uses, but for navigating underway, the chartplotter seems a better option. The real reason for me is that reading coordinates off a handheld GPS while looking at a plastic covered chart in the cockpit works real well. Seeing your position on a screen is great, but not ENTIRELY necessary for knowing where you are while underway.

It's when the heavy weather and dark of night come along that you can get a bit dissoriented, and that's when the visual confirmation of seeing your near-exact position on a screen is of great help and comfort. And it's these times when the laptop setup was most helpful, yet less then ideal. Coming back in a fierce storm one night I was all sorts of disoriented, and only miles from homeport. What the gps coordinates were saying just didn't "seem" right, and reaffirming it on the laptop was very comforting. Only problem was, I didn't want it up in the cockpit, with the rain and all, so I had to run down below to check. again, less than ideal. Coming into an unfamiliar harbor one dark evening running down below wasn't an option as there were obstructions everywhere. The skies were clear so I propped the laptop up on the pedstal table. Worked great, but a good wake or something could have easily sent it crashing.

I planned on making a nice watertight enclosure for the laptop that would somehow mount to the pedstal. But a good chartplotter, waterproof and self contained seemed like a better call. It's mounted on a swing out arm so it can swing into the companion way for viewing from the cockpit. Haven't put it to the real test yet, but it seems like it will fit the purpose nicely.

just a thought.

regards,

Brian
cd33

[Bill Goldsmith]

I just finished helping a friend do a delivery of his 30 foot Dragonfly trimaran. It was about 100 miles. He has the new RadarPC combo from Nobeltec/Sitexx and I had the chance to become acquainted with it.

My first reaction was shock at the cost. The RadarPC is close to $3,000 NOT including the laptop or a GPS. So you are looking at probably $4,000+ to get up and running. Whew.

In defense of the system it is quite nifty. You install the radome and feed the data through a box which also accepts the GPS signal and feeds both into the laptop. You can set waypoints and routes visually, check ranges and bearings, and follow your realtime progress on the laptop screen due to the gps signal. What's INCREDIBLY AWESOME is the overlay of the radar signal right onto the chart on the screen, so you see your boat's location on the chart and in relation to radar signals. It works very well and the radar display is easy to interpret. Boats around us that were fishing or lobstering had small red dots, while the New London/Orient ferry had a VERY BIG red splotch. Buoys showed up on the radar, usually right over the charted location, but you could still see the charted buoy and the radar image simultaneously. After playing with it in good weather, you gain a sense of how you might read it in the fog.

Having said all that I must agree with John R. regarding the downside of laptop navigation. First of all when we got near a thunderstorm, we completely lost the gps feed into the laptop (USB). We had to reboot the computer to reestablish that function. Not sure I'd want to have to do that very often. Secondly, the laptop was mounted on a swingarm in the companionway. Visibility is poor in direct sunlight and the unit is vulnerable to rain and spray. It also gets in the way.

When my friend went below to take a nap I confess I NEVER looked at the PC screen; rather, I had the chart out in the cockpit and used that instead.

I can't help but think that PC based navigation is best suited for powerboats or sailboats with a protected pilothouse. It will always be a compromise to use a PC in the context of open cockpit navigation.

I vote for the chartplotter GPS (such as the new Garmin 176c--really nice) to give you the visual confirmation. Rather than spend the money for RadarPC I would consider installing a standalone radar and separate chartplotting gps, if my cruising plans were to warrant. You could still use nav software to plan waypoints and routes and then download to the gps. The total cost would be far less than RadarPC.

Finally here's a hint to Garmin--why not make a combination Radar/GPS chartplotter in one unit that is watertight and can be used in open cockpit navigation? In essence, it would compete with RadarPC without the need for the PC!!

Bill Goldsmith

Thought I'd throw $.02 on the laptop vs. chartplotter issue.

I've been using the laptop route interfaced with a Garmin 45 for years. Used different versions of software and charts (Cap'n, Maptech, Softcharts etc.) The charts are excellent and the system works great.

As John pointed out, I've also e-mailed, checked weather charts on line, and at night, even watched DVDs.

And with all that said, we just switched to a chartplotter. May still bring a laptop along for some of the other uses, but for navigating underway, the chartplotter seems a better option. The real reason for me is that reading coordinates off a handheld GPS while looking at a plastic covered chart in the cockpit works real well. Seeing your position on a screen is great, but not ENTIRELY necessary for knowing where you are while underway.

It's when the heavy weather and dark of night come along that you can get a bit dissoriented, and that's when the visual confirmation of seeing your near-exact position on a screen is of great help and comfort. And it's these times when the laptop setup was most helpful, yet less then ideal. Coming back in a fierce storm one night I was all sorts of disoriented, and only miles from homeport. What the gps coordinates were saying just didn't "seem" right, and reaffirming it on the laptop was very comforting. Only problem was, I didn't want it up in the cockpit, with the rain and all, so I had to run down below to check. again, less than ideal. Coming into an unfamiliar harbor one dark evening running down below wasn't an option as there were obstructions everywhere. The skies were clear so I propped the laptop up on the pedstal table. Worked great, but a good wake or something could have easily sent it crashing.

I planned on making a nice watertight enclosure for the laptop that would somehow mount to the pedstal. But a good chartplotter, waterproof and self contained seemed like a better call. It's mounted on a swing out arm so it can swing into the companion way for viewing from the cockpit. Haven't put it to the real test yet, but it seems like it will fit the purpose nicely.

just a thought.

regards,

Brian
cd33

goldy@bestweb.net

[John R.]

I just finished helping a friend do a delivery of his 30 foot Dragonfly trimaran. It was about 100 miles. He has the new RadarPC combo from Nobeltec/Sitexx and I had the chance to become acquainted with it.

My first reaction was shock at the cost. The RadarPC is close to $3,000 NOT including the laptop or a GPS. So you are looking at probably $4,000+ to get up and running. Whew.

In defense of the system it is quite nifty. You install the radome and feed the data through a box which also accepts the GPS signal and feeds both into the laptop. You can set waypoints and routes visually, check ranges and bearings, and follow your realtime progress on the laptop screen due to the gps signal. What's INCREDIBLY AWESOME is the overlay of the radar signal right onto the chart on the screen, so you see your boat's location on the chart and in relation to radar signals. It works very well and the radar display is easy to interpret. Boats around us that were fishing or lobstering had small red dots, while the New London/Orient ferry had a VERY BIG red splotch. Buoys showed up on the radar, usually right over the charted location, but you could still see the charted buoy and the radar image simultaneously. After playing with it in good weather, you gain a sense of how you might read it in the fog.

Having said all that I must agree with John R. regarding the downside of laptop navigation. First of all when we got near a thunderstorm, we completely lost the gps feed into the laptop (USB). We had to reboot the computer to reestablish that function. Not sure I'd want to have to do that very often. Secondly, the laptop was mounted on a swingarm in the companionway. Visibility is poor in direct sunlight and the unit is vulnerable to rain and spray. It also gets in the way.

When my friend went below to take a nap I confess I NEVER looked at the PC screen; rather, I had the chart out in the cockpit and used that instead.

I can't help but think that PC based navigation is best suited for powerboats or sailboats with a protected pilothouse. It will always be a compromise to use a PC in the context of open cockpit navigation.

I vote for the chartplotter GPS (such as the new Garmin 176c--really nice) to give you the visual confirmation. Rather than spend the money for RadarPC I would consider installing a standalone radar and separate chartplotting gps, if my cruising plans were to warrant. You could still use nav software to plan waypoints and routes and then download to the gps. The total cost would be far less than RadarPC.

Finally here's a hint to Garmin--why not make a combination Radar/GPS chartplotter in one unit that is watertight and can be used in open cockpit navigation? In essence, it would compete with RadarPC without the need for the PC!!

Bill Goldsmith

Thought I'd throw $.02 on the laptop vs. chartplotter issue.

I've been using the laptop route interfaced with a Garmin 45 for years. Used different versions of software and charts (Cap'n, Maptech, Softcharts etc.) The charts are excellent and the system works great.

As John pointed out, I've also e-mailed, checked weather charts on line, and at night, even watched DVDs.

And with all that said, we just switched to a chartplotter. May still bring a laptop along for some of the other uses, but for navigating underway, the chartplotter seems a better option. The real reason for me is that reading coordinates off a handheld GPS while looking at a plastic covered chart in the cockpit works real well. Seeing your position on a screen is great, but not ENTIRELY necessary for knowing where you are while underway.

It's when the heavy weather and dark of night come along that you can get a bit dissoriented, and that's when the visual confirmation of seeing your near-exact position on a screen is of great help and comfort. And it's these times when the laptop setup was most helpful, yet less then ideal. Coming back in a fierce storm one night I was all sorts of disoriented, and only miles from homeport. What the gps coordinates were saying just didn't "seem" right, and reaffirming it on the laptop was very comforting. Only problem was, I didn't want it up in the cockpit, with the rain and all, so I had to run down below to check. again, less than ideal. Coming into an unfamiliar harbor one dark evening running down below wasn't an option as there were obstructions everywhere. The skies were clear so I propped the laptop up on the pedstal table. Worked great, but a good wake or something could have easily sent it crashing.

I planned on making a nice watertight enclosure for the laptop that would somehow mount to the pedstal. But a good chartplotter, waterproof and self contained seemed like a better call. It's mounted on a swing out arm so it can swing into the companion way for viewing from the cockpit. Haven't put it to the real test yet, but it seems like it will fit the purpose nicely.

just a thought.

regards,

Brian
cd33

My point was that a laptop belongs in the cabin, period. The chartplotter can't begin to compete with a laptop on uses or display quality except maybe by very expensive chartplotters in open direct sunlight and even then the chartplotters have their difficulties. Plus the screen display is a fraction of the size.

If chart displays are needed or wanted in the cockpit then the use of a chartplotter or radar/chartplotter display interfaced to a PC below decks is ideal. A handheld GPS and a protected or waterproof chart in the cockpit is certainly functional but cumbersome. Very easy to drop a handheld if it isn't mounted, plus you have to be concerned about battery life if it isn't hard wired into the ships 12V system.

Look into RayChart software and a Raymarine radar and a PC as a very good alternative to Radar/PC. I agree with you that the Radar/PC is a nice setup but the cost is terrible. The functions of several charting softwares on a PC in combination with radar have all the same radar overlay features as Radar/PC. Remember guys a system like RayChart software and others in combination with a split screen radar will show a PC chart display in the cockpit in a waterproof unit. The PC belongs below deck and a repeater of some type can be used in the cockpit. Perhaps the loss of signal during the thunderstorm was due to the USB interface and maybe serial would have been better. Maybe the cable does not have good shielding. Perhaps the connection was poor, loose or corroded. Nonetheless, rebooting made it an easy enough fix.

There are problems with all systems, some easy to fix some complex, even a paper chart can be blown overboard when out in the cockpit. There is always the risk of something going wrong with anything. That's where good judgement and common sense come into play. For example, if it's storming like hell, the chart blows overboard or the nav system goes down, I think the prudent thing to do is anchor or hove to until you can figure out where you are and where to head or just stay put.

One thing is for sure we all know electronic navigation is here to stay. What type we choose and the reasons behind our decisions will certainly be different for each and every one of us. I as explained before love the potential flexibility of the PC as a navigation and communication tool.

This is good discussion on the threshold of the future of navigation methods and equipment.

Below is a link to a site with excellent info on this subject for those that may be interested in the aspects of electronic chartplotting software and hardware.


">CAPTAIN JACKS</a>

[Richard Feffer]

On the advice of a friend, I purchased from Radio Shack a DB9 female plug ($1.50!). Connected this plug directly to the cable that came with the Garmin. Plugged the cable into the computer, started the Maptech software and it worked!!! My problem was in trying to connect the Garmin cable to the Maptech cable. It appears that the cable (with DB9 connector attatched) from Maptech was not compatable with the Garmin cable.
Thank you all for your comments and willingness to help resolve my dilema. It was very frustrating. Spent several hours with no luck. Delighted to see everything working as it should. It's really neat watching your boat move across the chart! Direct readout of Lat and Lon and distance to wherever you place the cursor. I would strongly recommend the Maptech software program to anyone interested in getting started with digital charts!
Thanks again to all,
Richard



RichFef@Prodigy.net

[John R.]

On the advice of a friend, I purchased from Radio Shack a DB9 female plug ($1.50!). Connected this plug directly to the cable that came with the Garmin. Plugged the cable into the computer, started the Maptech software and it worked!!! My problem was in trying to connect the Garmin cable to the Maptech cable. It appears that the cable (with DB9 connector attatched) from Maptech was not compatable with the Garmin cable.
Thank you all for your comments and willingness to help resolve my dilema. It was very frustrating. Spent several hours with no luck. Delighted to see everything working as it should. It's really neat watching your boat move across the chart! Direct readout of Lat and Lon and distance to wherever you place the cursor. I would strongly recommend the Maptech software program to anyone interested in getting started with digital charts!
Thanks again to all,
Richard

Richard, good to hear you resolved your problem so simply and cheaply.
Here is a link to Garmins PC interfacing page for others that may be having a problem.