I'm researching the options for adding refrigeration to Skywind, a 1980 CD30 ketch with A plan interior. The insulation around the icebox is pretty bare, and it's evident that I need to do a good job upgrading it in order to preserve energy efficiency regardless of the type refrigeration system I install. Anyone with a similar CD30 undertake this upgrade? I'd appreciate any advice on the insulation upgrade and/or the refrigeration system selected. Additionally how did you compensate for the extra power requirements demanded by the refrigeration i.e. adding extra batteries (where & what type), or adding wind generator or solar panels? I currently have 2 group 27s in parallel in the stbd lazaret for household use. Wonder if this enough even with good insulation. Thanks.
Skywindmcm@aol.com
Refrigeration for CD 30
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Search site for....
Captain Carlson,
Larry DeMers of s/v DeLaMer did exactly what you are thinking of just this year. There is extensive posting on this site on this topic. Search the site for Refrigeration, or Ice Box and see what ya get. DeLaMer is at sea for the next three weeks, so Larry will probably not answer your post.
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30
Nautical Traditions Officer
CDSOA "1"
Larry DeMers of s/v DeLaMer did exactly what you are thinking of just this year. There is extensive posting on this site on this topic. Search the site for Refrigeration, or Ice Box and see what ya get. DeLaMer is at sea for the next three weeks, so Larry will probably not answer your post.
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30
Nautical Traditions Officer
CDSOA "1"
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Leo MacDonald CD30K
Re: Refrigeration for CD 30
Hi Ed,
I added insulation around the Icebox in preparation for this summers cruise activities. Used a pressurized foam can thru multi small (~1/4") around the inside of the icebox. When drilling the holes, you have to go thru the inner AND the outer icebox walls to the void area. I was cautioned to use low expansion foam, but even with that the box bowed in a little. The ice did last longer, how long you will have to ask the Cruise Mess Management Specialist (aka Cook.) Bill, ???
Fair Winds,
Leo
Heather Ann, CD30K #57
macdore@aol.com
I added insulation around the Icebox in preparation for this summers cruise activities. Used a pressurized foam can thru multi small (~1/4") around the inside of the icebox. When drilling the holes, you have to go thru the inner AND the outer icebox walls to the void area. I was cautioned to use low expansion foam, but even with that the box bowed in a little. The ice did last longer, how long you will have to ask the Cruise Mess Management Specialist (aka Cook.) Bill, ???
Fair Winds,
Leo
Heather Ann, CD30K #57
macdore@aol.com
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John R.
Re: Refrigeration for CD 30
Be very careful if you use expansion foam. Some foam absorbs a lot of condensation because of it's open porosity and it becomes saturated with moisture and loses all of its insulating properties. Not good for the hull. Contact some of the foam manufacturers and inquire about the suitability of their foam for your intended use. Look into the industrial foams, I remember a green colored aerosal foam that was closed cell when cured, sorry can't recall the name of it. Moisture absorption is a big taboo and must be avoided. Unfortunately insulating a built in box that has little or no insulation is a big problem.Leo MacDonald CD30K wrote: Hi Ed,
I added insulation around the Icebox in preparation for this summers cruise activities. Used a pressurized foam can thru multi small (~1/4") around the inside of the icebox. When drilling the holes, you have to go thru the inner AND the outer icebox walls to the void area. I was cautioned to use low expansion foam, but even with that the box bowed in a little. The ice did last longer, how long you will have to ask the Cruise Mess Management Specialist (aka Cook.) Bill, ???
Fair Winds,
Leo
Heather Ann, CD30K #57
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Will Parker
Re: Refrigeration for CD 30
Ed,
Clearly you need additional battery capacity. You should check
John Vigor's book, " The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat", Chapter 10, for advice on how to figure your amp requirements. Nigel Calder also has a pretty good book on this. For example, I probably use about 90 amps per day, half of which is refrigeration. I have three group 31's wired in parallel for my house bank, and an addtional group 31 for a starter battery. The group 31's (AGM) are 105 amps each, which gives me 315 amps available to support the house needs including refrigeration. The extra amps are necessary since only about 40% of your battery capacity is available for normal use.
Since there was no room for the additional batteries in my cockpit lockers because of the hot water tank, I got rid of the hot water tank. ( I live in S. Florida) I now have two batteries in each cockpit locker. I intend to add a 75 or 100 watt solar panel to maintain the battery charge.
The prior owner of my boat only had two batteries: a group 27 for the house and a group 24 as a starter battery. He carried a gasoline opeerated generator to re-charge his batteries. Carrying a generator was not a viable option for me. It clutters the cabin and/or the cockpit. It is also noisy and smelly. When you crank one up in an anchorage, you are liable to be sunk by other cruisers. I opted for more batteries and eventually a solar panel.
Good luck.
Will
"Jambalaya"
CD 30C
whildenp@flinet.com
Clearly you need additional battery capacity. You should check
John Vigor's book, " The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat", Chapter 10, for advice on how to figure your amp requirements. Nigel Calder also has a pretty good book on this. For example, I probably use about 90 amps per day, half of which is refrigeration. I have three group 31's wired in parallel for my house bank, and an addtional group 31 for a starter battery. The group 31's (AGM) are 105 amps each, which gives me 315 amps available to support the house needs including refrigeration. The extra amps are necessary since only about 40% of your battery capacity is available for normal use.
Since there was no room for the additional batteries in my cockpit lockers because of the hot water tank, I got rid of the hot water tank. ( I live in S. Florida) I now have two batteries in each cockpit locker. I intend to add a 75 or 100 watt solar panel to maintain the battery charge.
The prior owner of my boat only had two batteries: a group 27 for the house and a group 24 as a starter battery. He carried a gasoline opeerated generator to re-charge his batteries. Carrying a generator was not a viable option for me. It clutters the cabin and/or the cockpit. It is also noisy and smelly. When you crank one up in an anchorage, you are liable to be sunk by other cruisers. I opted for more batteries and eventually a solar panel.
Good luck.
Will
"Jambalaya"
CD 30C
Ed Carlson wrote: I'm researching the options for adding refrigeration to Skywind, a 1980 CD30 ketch with A plan interior. The insulation around the icebox is pretty bare, and it's evident that I need to do a good job upgrading it in order to preserve energy efficiency regardless of the type refrigeration system I install. Anyone with a similar CD30 undertake this upgrade? I'd appreciate any advice on the insulation upgrade and/or the refrigeration system selected. Additionally how did you compensate for the extra power requirements demanded by the refrigeration i.e. adding extra batteries (where & what type), or adding wind generator or solar panels? I currently have 2 group 27s in parallel in the stbd lazaret for household use. Wonder if this enough even with good insulation. Thanks.
whildenp@flinet.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: Refrigeration for CD 30
We added refrigeration this past year, and also insulated the box. After just completing a 400 mile, nearly 3 week cruise to the Canadian North Shore of Lake Superior and Isle Royale, we have some actual use data on the installation.
I bought the Isotherm SP ASU system. It is made for boxes of 6 cu. ft. or less, which is ours precisely. I mounted the compressor under the galley sink, and the holding plate fore and aft on the boxes engine side-wall.
However, before installing the holding plate, I insulated the box using Dow-Corning Urethane pink spray-in-place foam. I cconsulted with the spray in place foam association who tied me into the various vendor applications dept's. Urethane closed cell foam is what you want..it will not absorb water over time.
I drilled 1 1/4 in. holes thru the inner and outer layer of fiberglass shell that makes up the ice box (it's shaped like a dbl. walled tub). In the bottom, there was the best part of 1 foot of space in certain areas, while there was only an inch available on the upper sides. Once 5 cans of foam were injected in the available spaces, the box was solidly insulated.
In all of the time we used the reefer, we consumed between 16 and 21 AH per 24 hr. period. Combined with our lights and radio use, we had a total AH useage of around 40-50 AH. We mainatined a 17-20 deg. temp. in the home built acrylic freezer section, and 33-40 deg. in the reefer sections.
The efficiency of this system is due to the use of the natural thermalsyphon action in the special galley seacock that they give you to install. This natural thermosyphoning action cools a heat exchanger mounted in the seacock, without the use of a water pump or fan.
To support the loads of the refrgeration draw, I installed a set of Golf Cart Batteries for the reefer only, and also I installed a high output alternator/ 3 stage regulator, and a large Charger/inverter. We can now replace up to 75AH's in about 1.5 hrs. of alt. run time...which is two days DC useage.
It is true that adding refrigeration is not a simple "drop it in" operation. It needs to be planned out from a power comsumption standpoint, as well as a mechanical installation standpoint. But it is sure neat to have cold drinks 75 miles away from the nearest source of ice. The icebox still had steaks and other meat items frozen solid after nearly 3 weeks. (But you will need to power the box down, and deice the holding plate and freezer section about every 2 weeks).
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
demers@sgi.com
I bought the Isotherm SP ASU system. It is made for boxes of 6 cu. ft. or less, which is ours precisely. I mounted the compressor under the galley sink, and the holding plate fore and aft on the boxes engine side-wall.
However, before installing the holding plate, I insulated the box using Dow-Corning Urethane pink spray-in-place foam. I cconsulted with the spray in place foam association who tied me into the various vendor applications dept's. Urethane closed cell foam is what you want..it will not absorb water over time.
I drilled 1 1/4 in. holes thru the inner and outer layer of fiberglass shell that makes up the ice box (it's shaped like a dbl. walled tub). In the bottom, there was the best part of 1 foot of space in certain areas, while there was only an inch available on the upper sides. Once 5 cans of foam were injected in the available spaces, the box was solidly insulated.
In all of the time we used the reefer, we consumed between 16 and 21 AH per 24 hr. period. Combined with our lights and radio use, we had a total AH useage of around 40-50 AH. We mainatined a 17-20 deg. temp. in the home built acrylic freezer section, and 33-40 deg. in the reefer sections.
The efficiency of this system is due to the use of the natural thermalsyphon action in the special galley seacock that they give you to install. This natural thermosyphoning action cools a heat exchanger mounted in the seacock, without the use of a water pump or fan.
To support the loads of the refrgeration draw, I installed a set of Golf Cart Batteries for the reefer only, and also I installed a high output alternator/ 3 stage regulator, and a large Charger/inverter. We can now replace up to 75AH's in about 1.5 hrs. of alt. run time...which is two days DC useage.
It is true that adding refrigeration is not a simple "drop it in" operation. It needs to be planned out from a power comsumption standpoint, as well as a mechanical installation standpoint. But it is sure neat to have cold drinks 75 miles away from the nearest source of ice. The icebox still had steaks and other meat items frozen solid after nearly 3 weeks. (But you will need to power the box down, and deice the holding plate and freezer section about every 2 weeks).
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
Ed Carlson wrote: I'm researching the options for adding refrigeration to Skywind, a 1980 CD30 ketch with A plan interior. The insulation around the icebox is pretty bare, and it's evident that I need to do a good job upgrading it in order to preserve energy efficiency regardless of the type refrigeration system I install. Anyone with a similar CD30 undertake this upgrade? I'd appreciate any advice on the insulation upgrade and/or the refrigeration system selected. Additionally how did you compensate for the extra power requirements demanded by the refrigeration i.e. adding extra batteries (where & what type), or adding wind generator or solar panels? I currently have 2 group 27s in parallel in the stbd lazaret for household use. Wonder if this enough even with good insulation. Thanks.
demers@sgi.com