Marlinspike: the eyes don't have it!

[Glenn Rountree]

I have been struggling with this for a long time, and I wonder if I am alone. Every so often, I change all my running rigging like I should when it gets sun damaged and worn. I use all 7/16" Sta-Set X double braid. Some years ago I bought the recommended "Uni-Fid" kit for splicing this stuff, and making eyes, etc. No matter how many times I have read the included instructions, practiced, sworn at it, and given up, only to come back later and try again, I still have yet to complete a single eye splice! I end up using up 6 feet or so of line, and only get something that looks like it belongs in the bottom of a gerbel cage. I understand the theory presented, but I can't see how it is possible when I actually do it. Granted, I may be an idiot, in fact, I personally assume so.

I would guess most people just buy the ready-made halyards, or hire the local rigger to make them up, but I want to be able to do this myself. It's frustrating - I am a programmer and technology consultant, have a Doctorate degree, and I can't sew a rope!!! Anyone have any advice to pass along?? Is there a video or virtual simulator or something out there I can use?



rountree@rountree-inc.com

[Catherine Monaghan]

Glenn.

I have never tried to splice braided line before so I don't know if the instructions at the following websites are any better than the instructions you've already got, but you can take a look and see what you think.

Eye Splice Instructions
<a href="http://www.southernoceanropes.co.nz/spl ... ing.htm</a>

The Double Braid Eye Splice
<a href="http://www.sacdelta.com/safety/knots/br ... eye.htm</a>

Good luck.

catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

I have been struggling with this for a long time, and I wonder if I am alone. Every so often, I change all my running rigging like I should when it gets sun damaged and worn. I use all 7/16" Sta-Set X double braid. Some years ago I bought the recommended "Uni-Fid" kit for splicing this stuff, and making eyes, etc. No matter how many times I have read the included instructions, practiced, sworn at it, and given up, only to come back later and try again, I still have yet to complete a single eye splice! I end up using up 6 feet or so of line, and only get something that looks like it belongs in the bottom of a gerbel cage. I understand the theory presented, but I can't see how it is possible when I actually do it. Granted, I may be an idiot, in fact, I personally assume so.

I would guess most people just buy the ready-made halyards, or hire the local rigger to make them up, but I want to be able to do this myself. It's frustrating - I am a programmer and technology consultant, have a Doctorate degree, and I can't sew a rope!!! Anyone have any advice to pass along?? Is there a video or virtual simulator or something out there I can use?

catherine_monaghan@merck.com

[David Brownlee]

I've spliced braided line enough times to say that it can be done, but not enough times to be able to do it without the instructions laid out in front of me while I work. As I recall, key "tricks" learned along the way were

1) mark the positions on the line that are supposed to be marked *very* boldly with black magic marker. Use one stripe for the first location, two for the second, etc. That keeps me from getting lost.

2) tape very tightly the line ends that must be passed through the shell of the line, so that they can be pressed deep (and held) in the recessed end of the splicing fid.

3. work slowly, and don't give up if the splice looks lumpy and misshapen at first. Keep "milking" the shell over the core and rolling the splice in your hands. After a few splices, my hands are raw and my fingers ache.

Good luck!

David Brownlee
CD31 #1 Windrush



dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu

[Serge Zimberoff]

I couldn't make it work either! Most of the instructions left me with yarns here and there and all very ugly. My sense is that most tools are just too fat and line with a tight cover like you are working with is tough for learning on.
However several years I happened on a set of small tools and instructions that do work, really. Anyone interested can email me their fax and I will send a copy of the instructions which tells very clearly (and simply) how do do it and where to get the tools. (You can probably make the tools if you wanted to, they are just short pieces adapted from some heavy standing rigging.) The only drawback is that now all my relatives and friends ask me to put eye splices in double braid line for them. (Actually, truth be told I love it.)
My best effort was the grablines on a large Zodiac type inflatable. The original ones had rotted off and I put a new large line on with an eye through the cleat at each end. Tough when you don't have lots of line to work with.



serge@srtrop.com

[Joe Sankey]

I just replace most of the running rigging on Slow Dance with Yale LS Braid using Yale's splicing kit. Last boat I used Sta Set X with a Samson splicing kit. That was hard; this was much easier and the kit is great. I think the mechanics are the same since Sta Set X (I think) is also a double braid. Frankly, I resisted because it was such a struggle last time, but finding someone to do it was a problem. Now I'm glad I did it.
Joe Sankey
CD 30 Slow Dance

I have been struggling with this for a long time, and I wonder if I am alone. Every so often, I change all my running rigging like I should when it gets sun damaged and worn. I use all 7/16" Sta-Set X double braid. Some years ago I bought the recommended "Uni-Fid" kit for splicing this stuff, and making eyes, etc. No matter how many times I have read the included instructions, practiced, sworn at it, and given up, only to come back later and try again, I still have yet to complete a single eye splice! I end up using up 6 feet or so of line, and only get something that looks like it belongs in the bottom of a gerbel cage. I understand the theory presented, but I can't see how it is possible when I actually do it. Granted, I may be an idiot, in fact, I personally assume so.

I would guess most people just buy the ready-made halyards, or hire the local rigger to make them up, but I want to be able to do this myself. It's frustrating - I am a programmer and technology consultant, have a Doctorate degree, and I can't sew a rope!!! Anyone have any advice to pass along?? Is there a video or virtual simulator or something out there I can use?

sankey@gulftel.com

[Duncan Maio]

Glenn:

Sta-Set X is very difficult to splice because the core is linear, not braided. My New England Ropes representative recommends removing an extra couple of feet of the paper cover on the core, rather than just from mark 2 to the end (see Step 2 in the instructions).

The other trick is that they are not kidding in step 7 about using considerable force. I hang the eye on a hook in my ceiling, and hang from it with a clamp on the "live" side of the splice to keep the cover from creeping the wrong way. Alternately pulling and smoothing seems to be the best way to get a good-looking splice without too much slack in the cover.

It's like sex: practice, practice, practice!

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI





dmaio@meganet.net

[Chris]

> It's frustrating - I am a programmer and technology consultant,
> have a Doctorate degree, and I can't sew a rope!!! Anyone have
> any advice to pass along??

Get a mechanical engineering degree. Sorry- couldn't resist



brainch@yahoo.com

[Rich]

> It's frustrating - I am a programmer and technology consultant,
> have a Doctorate degree, and I can't sew a rope!!! Anyone have
> any advice to pass along??

Get a mechanical engineering degree. Sorry- couldn't resist

Ouch. And after we all just completed sensitivity training after the "Shameless self promotion" incident. Must be the heat.



rpassmore42@hotmail.com

[matt cawthorne]

Glen,
If you are truely trying to do the Sta-Set-X then I suggest that you buy a length of plain old Sta-Set and try that first. The Sta-Set -X has a parallel core and is very hard to work with. I have done a number of eyes with Sta-Set and after a few they all look nice.
The Sta-Set-X is another story. The parallel core is really hard to work with. Here is one trick that I have learned which seems to help. When you unwind the covering off of the parallel core save it. You can use that to re-cover and re-group the core after the cover has been "passed through it". This allows it to work like a bundle again. It took me 3 tries to do one of my halyards this spring. I am not so fond of Sta-Set-X.

I use the Sampson splicing kit. I have tried a number and like it the best so far.

Matt



mcawthor@bellatlantic.net

[Serge Zimberoff]

Duncan...thanks for the good site for New England Ropes. They have a great series of pics.



serge@srtrop.com

[M. R. Bober]

Matt is correct. The parallel core of Sta-Set X is "Spectra" and not easy to work. I am comfortable splicing double braid, but hired a rigger to make up my Sta-Set X halyards.

If more than a few years pass between jobs, I use the documentation as a refresher. Count on sore fingers and hands. The "milking" of the cover is tough on our tender "keyboard" fingers, but it must be done to get the smoothness required.

Start with a piece of 3/8" line for training. The work is--IMHO--much more difficult with larger diameter line. Keep at it. Write when you succeed.
Mitchell Bober
RESPITE
CD330

[John R.]

I have been struggling with this for a long time, and I wonder if I am alone. Every so often, I change all my running rigging like I should when it gets sun damaged and worn. I use all 7/16" Sta-Set X double braid. Some years ago I bought the recommended "Uni-Fid" kit for splicing this stuff, and making eyes, etc. No matter how many times I have read the included instructions, practiced, sworn at it, and given up, only to come back later and try again, I still have yet to complete a single eye splice! I end up using up 6 feet or so of line, and only get something that looks like it belongs in the bottom of a gerbel cage. I understand the theory presented, but I can't see how it is possible when I actually do it. Granted, I may be an idiot, in fact, I personally assume so.

I would guess most people just buy the ready-made halyards, or hire the local rigger to make them up, but I want to be able to do this myself. It's frustrating - I am a programmer and technology consultant, have a Doctorate degree, and I can't sew a rope!!! Anyone have any advice to pass along?? Is there a video or virtual simulator or something out there I can use?

Glenn,

I never even tried splicing the Sta SetX because of the type of core it has and the stories I heard about the difficulty in splicing it. I do use it for halyards though, but I have the splices done by the West Marine rigging shop. My reason for this is that my butt is on the line when I'm suspended by it 30+ feet off a hard deck. That's enough reason for me to justify a few bucks to have a certified shop do the splice in such a difficult line. As an extra measure of safety I require that the splice be lock stitched at the cross over point in the splice and that the throat be stitched as well. I then whip the throat area when I receive the spliced line back from the shop.

I do splice all my other running rigging which is mostly Sta Set double braid. Some of it is Yale double braid. When I have any difficulty sliding the cover back over the finished splice I make it much easier by hanging the new spliced eye from a well secured hook and let the bitter end hang down. I tie a temporary loop in the line about two feet off the floor. Then I put one foot in the loop and place as much weight as I can on the line to tension it to the max. That compresses the splice and so then the cover slides fairly easy back over the splice.

Being that you are a technology consultant and a programmer I have a question for you that maybe you can help me with. I have a SEA (Stephens Engineering)Guardian 2000 weatherfax demodulator on board that receives weather fax signals over my SSB (single sideband radio). The demodulator gets the signal through a interface to the SSB audio out jack. The demodulator interprets the signal somehow and sends it on to a Kodax Diconix inkjet printer through a parallel port. That all works fine as is. I have this week purchased a IBM laptop computer for onboard to use as a electronic chartplotter, e-mail tool, etc.,. I would also like the laptop to be able to display the weatherfax maps received by the Guardian 2000 and send them to the printer if I want a hard copy. How can I get that weatherfax demodulator to interface with the PC? I know there are software programs like Windows 2000 Weatherfax (Coretex I think). There is also JVcomm32 software. I can use those as a last resort on their own but I would much rather use my Guardian unit as it is a very high quality demodulator with a lot of features. Do you think it is possible some way to get the demodulator and the PC to communicate?

I hope so because it would be a shame to ditch it. There are a lot of people that have weather fascimiles on board that work with their SSB's or HF radios and I'm sure many of them would be interested in a way to interface their existing demodulator systems to a PC also.

Thanks.......

[Olli Wendelin]

Hello Glenn,

As noted low stretch lines are harder to splice. I have spliced other braided lines, but don't really care for it. I use modified bowlines on my braided halyards with no problem. When I eventually replace these I will probably switch to 3 strand as a buddy of mine did on his CD28. I can splice that with my eyes shut, looks better too.

Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC




wendelin@spawar.navy.mil

[Glenn Rountree]

I have been struggling with this for a long time, and I wonder if I am alone. Every so often, I change all my running rigging like I should when it gets sun damaged and worn. I use all 7/16" Sta-Set X double braid. Some years ago I bought the recommended "Uni-Fid" kit for splicing this stuff, and making eyes, etc. No matter how many times I have read the included instructions, practiced, sworn at it, and given up, only to come back later and try again, I still have yet to complete a single eye splice! I end up using up 6 feet or so of line, and only get something that looks like it belongs in the bottom of a gerbel cage. I understand the theory presented, but I can't see how it is possible when I actually do it. Granted, I may be an idiot, in fact, I personally assume so.

I would guess most people just buy the ready-made halyards, or hire the local rigger to make them up, but I want to be able to do this myself. It's frustrating - I am a programmer and technology consultant, have a Doctorate degree, and I can't sew a rope!!! Anyone have any advice to pass along?? Is there a video or virtual simulator or something out there I can use?

Glenn,

I never even tried splicing the Sta SetX because of the type of core it has and the stories I heard about the difficulty in splicing it. I do use it for halyards though, but I have the splices done by the West Marine rigging shop. My reason for this is that my butt is on the line when I'm suspended by it 30+ feet off a hard deck. That's enough reason for me to justify a few bucks to have a certified shop do the splice in such a difficult line. As an extra measure of safety I require that the splice be lock stitched at the cross over point in the splice and that the throat be stitched as well. I then whip the throat area when I receive the spliced line back from the shop.

I do splice all my other running rigging which is mostly Sta Set double braid. Some of it is Yale double braid. When I have any difficulty sliding the cover back over the finished splice I make it much easier by hanging the new spliced eye from a well secured hook and let the bitter end hang down. I tie a temporary loop in the line about two feet off the floor. Then I put one foot in the loop and place as much weight as I can on the line to tension it to the max. That compresses the splice and so then the cover slides fairly easy back over the splice.

Being that you are a technology consultant and a programmer I have a question for you that maybe you can help me with. I have a SEA (Stephens Engineering)Guardian 2000 weatherfax demodulator on board that receives weather fax signals over my SSB (single sideband radio). The demodulator gets the signal through a interface to the SSB audio out jack. The demodulator interprets the signal somehow and sends it on to a Kodax Diconix inkjet printer through a parallel port. That all works fine as is. I have this week purchased a IBM laptop computer for onboard to use as a electronic chartplotter, e-mail tool, etc.,. I would also like the laptop to be able to display the weatherfax maps received by the Guardian 2000 and send them to the printer if I want a hard copy. How can I get that weatherfax demodulator to interface with the PC? I know there are software programs like Windows 2000 Weatherfax (Coretex I think). There is also JVcomm32 software. I can use those as a last resort on their own but I would much rather use my Guardian unit as it is a very high quality demodulator with a lot of features. Do you think it is possible some way to get the demodulator and the PC to communicate?

I hope so because it would be a shame to ditch it. There are a lot of people that have weather fascimiles on board that work with their SSB's or HF radios and I'm sure many of them would be interested in a way to interface their existing demodulator systems to a PC also.

Thanks.......

Without knowing some specific details about the unit you are trying to interface to, and the options available, I can't really give you a yes or no answer. However, there are other (inexpensive) means of trying to display WEFAX, etc. on your laptop that would also provide some advantages over a possible direct connection to that unit. One thing to remember is that the demodulator itself only decodes the data from the SSB signal. The quality of the reviever itself (and it's antenna) is the crucial thing. If you will drop me an e-mail and an address off board, I can get further into this if you like.

By the way, I have even been using an HP200LX palmtop, a simple demodulator, and a handheld Icom reciever to recieve PACKET, AMTOR, SITOR, WEFAX, NAVTEC, MORSE, etc. from my car for some time now. The whole unit fits in a modified lunch box, and is run from a few nicads charged from a solar panel built into the top. During hurricane season it lives under the seat.



rountree@rountree-inc.com

[Glenn Rountree]

Thanks VERY much to everyone for the advice and comments! It turns out that I needed a few things - much better instructions, smaller fids, more taper, and to start off with Sta-Set only before trying to splice Sta-SetX. After all the kind comments and advice, it just made more sense. Hope I can contribute something as usefull in return!

Glenn

I have been struggling with this for a long time, and I wonder if I am alone. Every so often, I change all my running rigging like I should when it gets sun damaged and worn. I use all 7/16" Sta-Set X double braid. Some years ago I bought the recommended "Uni-Fid" kit for splicing this stuff, and making eyes, etc. No matter how many times I have read the included instructions, practiced, sworn at it, and given up, only to come back later and try again, I still have yet to complete a single eye splice! I end up using up 6 feet or so of line, and only get something that looks like it belongs in the bottom of a gerbel cage. I understand the theory presented, but I can't see how it is possible when I actually do it. Granted, I may be an idiot, in fact, I personally assume so.

I would guess most people just buy the ready-made halyards, or hire the local rigger to make them up, but I want to be able to do this myself. It's frustrating - I am a programmer and technology consultant, have a Doctorate degree, and I can't sew a rope!!! Anyone have any advice to pass along?? Is there a video or virtual simulator or something out there I can use?

rountree@rountree-inc.com