"swinging at anchor"

[Dick Turner]

We're relatively new to our 31. While at anchor we seem to get much more movement or swing around the rode than adjacent boats. Is this normal, due to the design of a CD, etc.? Rode length seemed to be equal to other boats of similiar size. Not an issue, but could be a problem in tight quarters.

Dick
Mystical CD31 # 32



tbrhin1@gibralter.net

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Captain Turner,

I noticed this occuring to a Catalina? 32 or 36 this past weekend while we were at anchor at Napatree. One thing I noticed about the other vessel was that he had a LARGE dodger in place. This could cause increased windage of the vessel and cause her to sail around her anchor.

If you do have a dodger deployed, try rolling up the forward window at anchor and see what that does. Once she starts to swing, the only thing that would stop her is to reduce the windage. She will sail to one side and then the other, stopped only when rode and the pull on her bow brings her back on the other tack.

I don't have a dodger rigged on Hanalei (crew loves a fresh blast of sea water in the face once in awhile!), so I don't know if this is what causes the swing or not. Let us know what you find.

Oh, and Hanalei was sitting dead straight to her anchor all night long in the same conditions as the other vessel....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Neil Gordon]

You can stop the swing by running a line from the rode to a cockpit winch. Attach the line with a rolling hitch, far enough forward so that when you crank in on the winch, the boat is held at an angle that keeps the bow from swinging through the wind.

As for having enough swinging room in tight quarters... boats react differently to wind and current combinations, depending on keel configurations, etc. It's possible for some boats to be upwind of their anchors while others are downwind. It's best to arrive early so that swinging rights are yours, but keep a good lookout in any case if their's a risk.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



cdory28@aol.com

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Captain Gordon,

I agree entirely with what you say. It was a trick we used in days of old to be able to sweep the entire channel with our cannon to keep the attacking British out! With a warp and a proper capstan, you could point the side of the ship anywhere you needed the cannon to point.

Good suggestion....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

[Larry DeMers]

My favorite way to minimize sailing at anchor is the simple but very useful Riding Sail. These are tiny little sails that are rigged to your backstay, with the sheet going forward to the mast base. They are hanked on using the main halyard, and drawn up tight, thent he sheet is tied tight to the mast base. Now the boat will weathercock into the oncoming wind, taking the presumed waves with the bow, and not the bilges, which is what happens when you sail at anchor, and roll your way thru tacks. The anchor sail keeps our oscillations down to +/- 5-10 degrees to the wind, so the boat never travels far. The stronger the winds, the stronger the steering effect to keep the boat into the wind for you.

Sources for the Riding Sail are:
The catalogs; Defender, West Marine etc. They have premade sails at around $80 to $100.SailRite has a kit available, which two friends have built and use every time anchored out..as we do. I would opt for the larger size for a CD30 and larger.

Cheers

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

We're relatively new to our 31. While at anchor we seem to get much more movement or swing around the rode than adjacent boats. Is this normal, due to the design of a CD, etc.? Rode length seemed to be equal to other boats of similiar size. Not an issue, but could be a problem in tight quarters.

Dick
Mystical CD31 # 32

demers@sgi.com

[Patrick Turner]

I don't have a solution....the privious message sounds interesting and I'm going to give that a try myself...but I believe one of the reasons Cape Dory's swing or hunt at anchor is because of the "cut-away" forefoot design. Because there is a lot less keel under the forward half of the boat then the aft end of the boat, there is much less lateral resistance to the wind pushing against the side of the boat. So as soon as it feels a little wind against one side of the nose.....it tends to fall off and kind of sail over a bit till it comes up tighter on the rode and then starts over.

Pat



patrick.t@home.com

[Patrick Turner]

Larry,

I've seen the add for the riding sail from sailrite, but isn't it a bit small? Is there a formula for how big the riding sail should be? I asked a local Hood sailmaker about a riding sail for my boat and he suggested a much larger sail then that offered by sailrite. Also, I understand that the place to make fast the sheet is just of to one side or the other of the mast....like to a mid cleat if you have one. That cocks the boat just a tad off the wind and keeps it there.

Pat



patrick.t@home.com

[Ed Haley]

Just wondering, Dave, if your anchor rode is all chain. I heard that using all chain would reduce the swingin'. Enjoyed meeting you at Block a short time ago. We're wondering what you'll have up your "bloomers" next year?



eghaley@twcny.rr.com

[John R.]

Larry,

I've seen the add for the riding sail from sailrite, but isn't it a bit small? Is there a formula for how big the riding sail should be? I asked a local Hood sailmaker about a riding sail for my boat and he suggested a much larger sail then that offered by sailrite. Also, I understand that the place to make fast the sheet is just of to one side or the other of the mast....like to a mid cleat if you have one. That cocks the boat just a tad off the wind and keeps it there.

Pat

That's what I've usually seen also. The sail is sheeted off to one side or the other. Our main is roller furled and in the past I once tried using just a small area of the main left unfurled and it seemed to help a little. I've given a riding sail consideration but would have to free up the topping lift to use as a halyard or use the spinnaker halyard in an odd fashion since the main halyard is being used all the time with the furling.

I've never found the boat (CD30) to swing excessively anyway.

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Captain Haley,

No, the rode on Hanalei is about 25 feet of chain and then nylon rode of about 200 feet. This attached to a CGR anchor. I don't think all chain rode would be a good idea, too much weight, too far forward. She doesn't swing, and I like I said earlier, I think it is because of little windage presented to the wind - no dodger!

For next year? Why something "Traditional" of course! Nice meeting you too, I remain....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Larry DeMers]

John,

Then you have not had her anchored in high winds. We have seen her sail 90 degrees to one side of the anchor and then wallow her way around to 90 degress off the anchor on the other side..in 35 kt. of wind. A riding sail will hold her in the center.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

Larry,

I've seen the add for the riding sail from sailrite, but isn't it a bit small? Is there a formula for how big the riding sail should be? I asked a local Hood sailmaker about a riding sail for my boat and he suggested a much larger sail then that offered by sailrite. Also, I understand that the place to make fast the sheet is just of to one side or the other of the mast....like to a mid cleat if you have one. That cocks the boat just a tad off the wind and keeps it there.

Pat

That's what I've usually seen also. The sail is sheeted off to one side or the other. Our main is roller furled and in the past I once tried using just a small area of the main left unfurled and it seemed to help a little. I've given a riding sail consideration but would have to free up the topping lift to use as a halyard or use the spinnaker halyard in an odd fashion since the main halyard is being used all the time with the furling.

I've never found the boat (CD30) to swing excessively anyway.

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

I agree with you about the sailrite riding sail..it is a bit small to my eye also, and it does not seem to set well either (although this could easily have been the guys who sewed the kit together). We have two friends who do use a SailRite riding sail though..one is on a Mason 33, and the other is on an Allberg 37. Both owners like the sail however. I would have suggested they go for the next size up.
As I said before, use the larger of the two sizes available from West Marine for a CD30 and larger vessel. Don't forget, all you are trying to do with this sail is to cause the stern to follow the winds, not get the hull up to speed.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Larry,

I've seen the add for the riding sail from sailrite, but isn't it a bit small? Is there a formula for how big the riding sail should be? I asked a local Hood sailmaker about a riding sail for my boat and he suggested a much larger sail then that offered by sailrite. Also, I understand that the place to make fast the sheet is just of to one side or the other of the mast....like to a mid cleat if you have one. That cocks the boat just a tad off the wind and keeps it there.

Pat

demers@sgi.com

[Bob Ohler]

I have a couple of follow up questions to this thread:
1.For those of you that use a riding sail, do you also have a bimini, and should I assume that that you fold the bimini forward onto the cabin top when you are using the riding sail?
2. Does anyone "fly" the riding sail off the back of the boat, instead of into the cockpit?
Thanks,
Bob Ohler
CD30
"Aloha Spirit"



bobohler@chesapeake.net

[John R.]

John,

Then you have not had her anchored in high winds. We have seen her sail 90 degrees to one side of the anchor and then wallow her way around to 90 degress off the anchor on the other side..in 35 kt. of wind. A riding sail will hold her in the center.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

I wouldn't say "have not". Certainly not to the degree you experience on Superior on more or less a regular basis. I don't think most boats are in those type of conditions on a general basis. Haven't had her anchored in 35 knots (continuous) but certainly she has been in varying duration gusts and squalls; there was minimal not excessive swinging. She has a lot of chain which may help and I use a double line bridle with a ABI chain grabber. On the rode section I will set a bronze "Rode Rider" if conditions warrant it and all the chain has been payed out.

Larry,

I've seen the add for the riding sail from sailrite, but isn't it a bit small? Is there a formula for how big the riding sail should be? I asked a local Hood sailmaker about a riding sail for my boat and he suggested a much larger sail then that offered by sailrite. Also, I understand that the place to make fast the sheet is just of to one side or the other of the mast....like to a mid cleat if you have one. That cocks the boat just a tad off the wind and keeps it there.

Pat

That's what I've usually seen also. The sail is sheeted off to one side or the other. Our main is roller furled and in the past I once tried using just a small area of the main left unfurled and it seemed to help a little. I've given a riding sail consideration but would have to free up the topping lift to use as a halyard or use the spinnaker halyard in an odd fashion since the main halyard is being used all the time with the furling.

I've never found the boat (CD30) to swing excessively anyway.

[Neil Gordon]

>>With a warp and a proper capstan, you could point the side of the ship anywhere you needed the cannon to point.<<

Just be careful you don't sever the warp or the cable!


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



cdory28@aol.com