Can anyone tell me how to reach the head end of the sanitation hose that runs from the head to the holding tank? From Parfait's Y-valve the hose runs through a couple of cabinet panels and behind the toilet; it clamps to a PVC pipe or elbow that disappears below the platform for the toilet. At the holding tank end, there is that awful black hose we all want to replace.
Is the platform easily removed? Will I find the head end of the hose there? Is it impossible to replace? I have some thoughts about the person who designed the routing for the hoses, but I'll save them for another time. At least Parfait has an anti-siphon loop in place at all times.
Ken
S/V Parfait
Raleigh, NC
parfait@nc.rr.com
Plumbing on a 36
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Dub Baker
Re: Plumbing on a 36
I am sorry I can not help, on "Solitaire" the head hose runs straight to the port locker and then to the y-valve. I have not removed the platform but have wondered what was under it. Good luck.Ken Coit wrote: Can anyone tell me how to reach the head end of the sanitation hose that runs from the head to the holding tank? From Parfait's Y-valve the hose runs through a couple of cabinet panels and behind the toilet; it clamps to a PVC pipe or elbow that disappears below the platform for the toilet. At the holding tank end, there is that awful black hose we all want to replace.
Is the platform easily removed? Will I find the head end of the hose there? Is it impossible to replace? I have some thoughts about the person who designed the routing for the hoses, but I'll save them for another time. At least Parfait has an anti-siphon loop in place at all times.
Ken
S/V Parfait
Raleigh, NC
rbaker3@tuelectric.com
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Chris Schnell
Re: Plumbing on a 36
Ken,
I'm not sure how close the design between a 30 and 36 are, but I will tell you that I just replumbed the entire head, including installing a vented loop and y valve (neither of which where there and she was plumbed straight over), and replacing all that cheap white hose with the wire runing through it. I don't know what kind of black hose you're referring to but I wanted to share a tip which I used in replumbing MADNESS III. A very good friend and his wife are live-aboards on a 42' President and had the typical "my hose is old enough to be impregnated and smells" syndrome. He solved the problem by using this thick, slick as a cat's ... on the inside, black wet exhaust hose. He's had no smell issues since. I followed suit and used this on all my 1 1/2" lines, including the pump-out hose from the holding tank to the deck fitting. It really works but I will warn you that it's expensive at about $4 per foot here at the NAPA store. But as Charlie says, if you're not replacing it every few years and stays slick on the inside and doesn't smell, then it's most definetely worth the initial expense. Thought you'd like to know. Good Luck.
Chris Schnell
s/v MADNESS III CD30 #235
Southport, NC
swabbie@compaq.net
I'm not sure how close the design between a 30 and 36 are, but I will tell you that I just replumbed the entire head, including installing a vented loop and y valve (neither of which where there and she was plumbed straight over), and replacing all that cheap white hose with the wire runing through it. I don't know what kind of black hose you're referring to but I wanted to share a tip which I used in replumbing MADNESS III. A very good friend and his wife are live-aboards on a 42' President and had the typical "my hose is old enough to be impregnated and smells" syndrome. He solved the problem by using this thick, slick as a cat's ... on the inside, black wet exhaust hose. He's had no smell issues since. I followed suit and used this on all my 1 1/2" lines, including the pump-out hose from the holding tank to the deck fitting. It really works but I will warn you that it's expensive at about $4 per foot here at the NAPA store. But as Charlie says, if you're not replacing it every few years and stays slick on the inside and doesn't smell, then it's most definetely worth the initial expense. Thought you'd like to know. Good Luck.
Chris Schnell
s/v MADNESS III CD30 #235
Southport, NC
swabbie@compaq.net
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: One thing to think about......
Captain Coit,
I did replace all the black hose on Hanalei a year ago. Replaced it with BLACK hose! If it was good for twenty years, it should be good for twenty more. One thing I found out though, whoever the SADIST was that installed that hose, tye wrapped it to bulkheads in a number of unreachable spots. On Hanalei, that included passing underneath the gimballed stove platform. Our holding tank is just under the companion way ladder. It was tye wrapped TWICE in there in a space of about 1 foot!
I eventually invented a cutting tool to reach in along side the hose and cut the wraps. Here's how I did it: Go to hardware store, buy about 18" of 1/4" threaded rod. Take home, flatten onE end of the rod into a spade shape, slit spade to a two pronged fork shape, sharpen the inside edges of the fork with a file, and you have a "Remote Tye Wrap Cutter". Take cutter to boat, slide in to the tye wrap and engage the fork, tap sharply with hammer, and Viola! the wrap is gone.
If the tool is too long, cut some off, if too short, a coupling and additional rod will do the trick!
The worker that tye wrapped all that hose ought to be Keel Hauled! Or, at least brought before the Captain for punishment......!!!
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30
I did replace all the black hose on Hanalei a year ago. Replaced it with BLACK hose! If it was good for twenty years, it should be good for twenty more. One thing I found out though, whoever the SADIST was that installed that hose, tye wrapped it to bulkheads in a number of unreachable spots. On Hanalei, that included passing underneath the gimballed stove platform. Our holding tank is just under the companion way ladder. It was tye wrapped TWICE in there in a space of about 1 foot!
I eventually invented a cutting tool to reach in along side the hose and cut the wraps. Here's how I did it: Go to hardware store, buy about 18" of 1/4" threaded rod. Take home, flatten onE end of the rod into a spade shape, slit spade to a two pronged fork shape, sharpen the inside edges of the fork with a file, and you have a "Remote Tye Wrap Cutter". Take cutter to boat, slide in to the tye wrap and engage the fork, tap sharply with hammer, and Viola! the wrap is gone.
If the tool is too long, cut some off, if too short, a coupling and additional rod will do the trick!
The worker that tye wrapped all that hose ought to be Keel Hauled! Or, at least brought before the Captain for punishment......!!!
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30
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Ken Coit
Re: One thing to think about......
Capt. Dave:
Yes, I remembered your sad story, so I checked out the routing on Parfait. It appears that the hose runs directly from the PVC fitting (pipe, elbow, whatever) to the inlet hose at the top of the holding tank, which is also at the foot of the companionway ladder. I can't tell how it is fastened, if at all, and I am wondering if it is accessible since there are no access ports forward of the fuel tank, save the maststep. I will remove the platform long before I touch that teak and holly veneer, but I really don't want to do that either.
Thanks for the invention of the cable clamp cutting tool. I hope I don't need one, but my problem may be even more difficult to solve.
Ken
CD-36 S/V Parfait
Raleigh, NC
parfait@nc.rr.com
Yes, I remembered your sad story, so I checked out the routing on Parfait. It appears that the hose runs directly from the PVC fitting (pipe, elbow, whatever) to the inlet hose at the top of the holding tank, which is also at the foot of the companionway ladder. I can't tell how it is fastened, if at all, and I am wondering if it is accessible since there are no access ports forward of the fuel tank, save the maststep. I will remove the platform long before I touch that teak and holly veneer, but I really don't want to do that either.
Thanks for the invention of the cable clamp cutting tool. I hope I don't need one, but my problem may be even more difficult to solve.
Ken
CD-36 S/V Parfait
Raleigh, NC
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Captain Coit,
I did replace all the black hose on Hanalei a year ago. Replaced it with BLACK hose! If it was good for twenty years, it should be good for twenty more. One thing I found out though, whoever the SADIST was that installed that hose, tye wrapped it to bulkheads in a number of unreachable spots. On Hanalei, that included passing underneath the gimballed stove platform. Our holding tank is just under the companion way ladder. It was tye wrapped TWICE in there in a space of about 1 foot!
I eventually invented a cutting tool to reach in along side the hose and cut the wraps. Here's how I did it: Go to hardware store, buy about 18" of 1/4" threaded rod. Take home, flatten onE end of the rod into a spade shape, slit spade to a two pronged fork shape, sharpen the inside edges of the fork with a file, and you have a "Remote Tye Wrap Cutter". Take cutter to boat, slide in to the tye wrap and engage the fork, tap sharply with hammer, and Viola! the wrap is gone.
If the tool is too long, cut some off, if too short, a coupling and additional rod will do the trick!
The worker that tye wrapped all that hose ought to be Keel Hauled! Or, at least brought before the Captain for punishment......!!!
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30
parfait@nc.rr.com
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Steve Alarcon
ATTN: Pat Turner...Re: Plumbing on a 36
Ken,
On Tenacity, The PVC pipe runs from the connection point at the head under the deck aft to the holding tank. I've not looked specifically to see where PVC changes to the awful black hose, but suspect that it is somewhere in the neighborhood just aft of the fuel tank. I recall that Pat Turner had his decking up earlier this year. Perhaps he has some insight and will see this post and chime in?
Steve Alarcon
CD36 Tenacity
Seattle
alarcon3@prodigy.net
On Tenacity, The PVC pipe runs from the connection point at the head under the deck aft to the holding tank. I've not looked specifically to see where PVC changes to the awful black hose, but suspect that it is somewhere in the neighborhood just aft of the fuel tank. I recall that Pat Turner had his decking up earlier this year. Perhaps he has some insight and will see this post and chime in?
Steve Alarcon
CD36 Tenacity
Seattle
alarcon3@prodigy.net
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Ken Coit
Re: ATTN: Pat Turner...Re: Plumbing on a 36
Steve,
Thanks for that encouraging word. I hope that Pat can confirm your thoughts. It looked like it went somewhere forward of the fuel tank before mating with the PVC, but I will certainly look more carefully.
Ken
parfait@nc.rr.com
Thanks for that encouraging word. I hope that Pat can confirm your thoughts. It looked like it went somewhere forward of the fuel tank before mating with the PVC, but I will certainly look more carefully.
Ken
Steve Alarcon wrote: Ken,
On Tenacity, The PVC pipe runs from the connection point at the head under the deck aft to the holding tank. I've not looked specifically to see where PVC changes to the awful black hose, but suspect that it is somewhere in the neighborhood just aft of the fuel tank. I recall that Pat Turner had his decking up earlier this year. Perhaps he has some insight and will see this post and chime in?
Steve Alarcon
CD36 Tenacity
Seattle
parfait@nc.rr.com
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Patrick Turner
Re: Plumbing on a 36
Not sure I can be of much help here since on my 1979 CD36 (#2) the holding tank is under the V-berth. It's true that I had the whole main salon floor up, as recently as last week. On the earlier CD36's they put two 35 gal water tanks in the bilge - these I replaced.
The head on my boat sits on a small platform roughly 6" tall, 16" deep and spans from the small cabinet to the wall next to the mast. The head is centered on this platform and I installed a small 6" round inspection plate just to the left as you face the head. The space under there is, as you might guess, empty save for whatever plumbing you might be running through there. If I understand the problem correctly you coul...if your handy....pull the head....cut with a jig saw a large rectangular section of that platform top out...install 1x2 stock on the underside of that platform hole to creat a small ledge that the platform top can be screwed back down onto...do whatever work you need to do and then button it all up again....could finish off the seam or cut with a small bit of teak or white plastic trim. The bilge under this area is wide and shallow and if you were to drill a hole in the floor inside that small platform space.....say for a pipe or hose....you would end up in the shallow area of that forward bilge. From there you could turn back towards/through the main salon and to the holding tank area under the companionway steps in later models. In my boat, the substructure under the main salon floor consists of 2 longitudinal stringers glassed in. These are space approximatley 36" apart and are bisected by 3 lattitudinal stringers (running athwartship)...one just aft of the mast...one in the center of the salon...and one just where the salon becomes the galley/nav area. What you end up with are 2 large captured spaces running for/aft in the center, and 4 (2 on each side) small troughs running along the sides. These act to capture water that might find it's way down the hull. There are "weep" holes in these troughs to allow water to drain into the bilge. I'm afraid I can't tell you if there are hoses or pvc pipe running through these spaces, but there would be room for it....above whatever tanks are installed here. They would have had to cut a hole through a couple of those stringers to make it back there, but that's certainly doable.
Don't know if this addressed your question directly, but I could send you photographs (email) of some of what I have discribed above.
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
The head on my boat sits on a small platform roughly 6" tall, 16" deep and spans from the small cabinet to the wall next to the mast. The head is centered on this platform and I installed a small 6" round inspection plate just to the left as you face the head. The space under there is, as you might guess, empty save for whatever plumbing you might be running through there. If I understand the problem correctly you coul...if your handy....pull the head....cut with a jig saw a large rectangular section of that platform top out...install 1x2 stock on the underside of that platform hole to creat a small ledge that the platform top can be screwed back down onto...do whatever work you need to do and then button it all up again....could finish off the seam or cut with a small bit of teak or white plastic trim. The bilge under this area is wide and shallow and if you were to drill a hole in the floor inside that small platform space.....say for a pipe or hose....you would end up in the shallow area of that forward bilge. From there you could turn back towards/through the main salon and to the holding tank area under the companionway steps in later models. In my boat, the substructure under the main salon floor consists of 2 longitudinal stringers glassed in. These are space approximatley 36" apart and are bisected by 3 lattitudinal stringers (running athwartship)...one just aft of the mast...one in the center of the salon...and one just where the salon becomes the galley/nav area. What you end up with are 2 large captured spaces running for/aft in the center, and 4 (2 on each side) small troughs running along the sides. These act to capture water that might find it's way down the hull. There are "weep" holes in these troughs to allow water to drain into the bilge. I'm afraid I can't tell you if there are hoses or pvc pipe running through these spaces, but there would be room for it....above whatever tanks are installed here. They would have had to cut a hole through a couple of those stringers to make it back there, but that's certainly doable.
Don't know if this addressed your question directly, but I could send you photographs (email) of some of what I have discribed above.
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
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Ken Coit
Re: Plumbing on a 36
Pat,
Thanks very much for the description of what you found. If you can send the photos via email, that would be wonderful. I am thinking of running two hoses to the holding tank, one to the inlet and one T'd off the outlet with a Y-valve. That way I can use the same through hull as now and simplify the system. All effluent will flow from the toilet to the tank and be pumped out via the waste fitting or via a Henderson diaphragm pump and the anti-siphon loop through the existing through hull. It doesn't sound as if there is enough room to mount that pump below the platform, but I think it can go in the cabinet instead of the Y-valve and all the hoses.
Please send those photos.
Thanks,
Ken
parfait@nc.rr.com
Thanks very much for the description of what you found. If you can send the photos via email, that would be wonderful. I am thinking of running two hoses to the holding tank, one to the inlet and one T'd off the outlet with a Y-valve. That way I can use the same through hull as now and simplify the system. All effluent will flow from the toilet to the tank and be pumped out via the waste fitting or via a Henderson diaphragm pump and the anti-siphon loop through the existing through hull. It doesn't sound as if there is enough room to mount that pump below the platform, but I think it can go in the cabinet instead of the Y-valve and all the hoses.
Please send those photos.
Thanks,
Ken
Patrick Turner wrote: Not sure I can be of much help here since on my 1979 CD36 (#2) the holding tank is under the V-berth. It's true that I had the whole main salon floor up, as recently as last week. On the earlier CD36's they put two 35 gal water tanks in the bilge - these I replaced.
The head on my boat sits on a small platform roughly 6" tall, 16" deep and spans from the small cabinet to the wall next to the mast. The head is centered on this platform and I installed a small 6" round inspection plate just to the left as you face the head. The space under there is, as you might guess, empty save for whatever plumbing you might be running through there. If I understand the problem correctly you coul...if your handy....pull the head....cut with a jig saw a large rectangular section of that platform top out...install 1x2 stock on the underside of that platform hole to creat a small ledge that the platform top can be screwed back down onto...do whatever work you need to do and then button it all up again....could finish off the seam or cut with a small bit of teak or white plastic trim. The bilge under this area is wide and shallow and if you were to drill a hole in the floor inside that small platform space.....say for a pipe or hose....you would end up in the shallow area of that forward bilge. From there you could turn back towards/through the main salon and to the holding tank area under the companionway steps in later models. In my boat, the substructure under the main salon floor consists of 2 longitudinal stringers glassed in. These are space approximatley 36" apart and are bisected by 3 lattitudinal stringers (running athwartship)...one just aft of the mast...one in the center of the salon...and one just where the salon becomes the galley/nav area. What you end up with are 2 large captured spaces running for/aft in the center, and 4 (2 on each side) small troughs running along the sides. These act to capture water that might find it's way down the hull. There are "weep" holes in these troughs to allow water to drain into the bilge. I'm afraid I can't tell you if there are hoses or pvc pipe running through these spaces, but there would be room for it....above whatever tanks are installed here. They would have had to cut a hole through a couple of those stringers to make it back there, but that's certainly doable.
Don't know if this addressed your question directly, but I could send you photographs (email) of some of what I have discribed above.
Pat
parfait@nc.rr.com