I've read many references to "blown out sails" and wonder what is meant by that expression.
I assume it doesn't mean that the sails have literally been blown apart at the seams (or anyplace, for that matter). Does it mean that the sails have stretched beyond a flat state? If one tightens the sheet all the way, is the sail supposed to become flat and taut? If it's floppy, how much floppiness is acceptable before there is a noticeable loss of performance? If floppy, can a sailmaker remedy this by cutting slits in the sail and sewing back together with overlaps?
Thanks for sharing the knowledge,
Joel Bondy
Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
bondy_joel@hotmail.com
Blown out sails
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Bob Bundy
Re: Blown out sails
Joel,
I guess it depends upon your frame of reference. To me, "blown out sails" means exactly what you assumed that it didn't. "The headsail on my CD27 blew out in a as I was trying to get across the sound." In this case, the seams ripped apart and the sail was flapping in shreds. It may mean something else in some other context.
Bob Bundy
CD Typhoon #73
Oblivion
BundyR@aol.com
I guess it depends upon your frame of reference. To me, "blown out sails" means exactly what you assumed that it didn't. "The headsail on my CD27 blew out in a as I was trying to get across the sound." In this case, the seams ripped apart and the sail was flapping in shreds. It may mean something else in some other context.
Bob Bundy
CD Typhoon #73
Oblivion
BundyR@aol.com
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David Brownlee
Re: Blown out sails
"Blown out" usually refers to sails that have become soft and baggy through use, although I have heard it said of sails that have been destroyed, too.
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu
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Larry DeMers
Re: Blown out sails
The most common meaning amongst sailors is that the sail is shot, and needs replacing. I suppose it really could mean either it is actuallly ripped apart, or that it was stretched out badly.
I just replaced the main and staysail on my CD30, due to the sails being blown out. The symptoms that we saw were 'stretch marks' in the sail at high loading points when the boat was on the wind and sheeted in tight. Photos of the current sail plan flying are very useful here, as they reveal shadows cast by riples in the sail material, due to stretched out fabric. On our sail, I had some remarkable stretch marks running from the third panel to the clew..about 10 of them in parallel. Most of the first three panels had stretch marks in them, as did most of the upper sail but lighter, and this then made the draft or deepest part of the 'wing', ie: deepest lift generating point on the wings surface, move backward toward the stern, which then produces more weather helm for a given wind speed and heel. Why? Because the biggest 'lift' in your wing is so far back from the mast that it tries hard to swing the bow into and thru the wind..the action is amplified by the distance it moves back from the center of effort on the boat.
The staysail was so limp and without form that you could have tied it in knots! So we got a similar although modified sail as the original. I removed 6 inches from the clew, and fattened the roach a tad. We use an adjustable outhaul for the clew, and that block and tackle flattens the staysail very nicely now, allowing for many types of air and conditions. We also added a reef to this sail, to compliment the third reef point added to the main, which is loose footed like the staysail, and has a similar powerful outhaul block and tackle installed to adjust it from very full, to near flat. This allows faster beating, higher pointing, and less heeling for a given wind over 18 knts. We now reef at 23-25 knts. or 35 deg. heel, or more than a 90 deg. movement of the top center marker on our wheel to counteract windward helm...instead of 18 knts wind.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~
demers@sgi.com
I just replaced the main and staysail on my CD30, due to the sails being blown out. The symptoms that we saw were 'stretch marks' in the sail at high loading points when the boat was on the wind and sheeted in tight. Photos of the current sail plan flying are very useful here, as they reveal shadows cast by riples in the sail material, due to stretched out fabric. On our sail, I had some remarkable stretch marks running from the third panel to the clew..about 10 of them in parallel. Most of the first three panels had stretch marks in them, as did most of the upper sail but lighter, and this then made the draft or deepest part of the 'wing', ie: deepest lift generating point on the wings surface, move backward toward the stern, which then produces more weather helm for a given wind speed and heel. Why? Because the biggest 'lift' in your wing is so far back from the mast that it tries hard to swing the bow into and thru the wind..the action is amplified by the distance it moves back from the center of effort on the boat.
The staysail was so limp and without form that you could have tied it in knots! So we got a similar although modified sail as the original. I removed 6 inches from the clew, and fattened the roach a tad. We use an adjustable outhaul for the clew, and that block and tackle flattens the staysail very nicely now, allowing for many types of air and conditions. We also added a reef to this sail, to compliment the third reef point added to the main, which is loose footed like the staysail, and has a similar powerful outhaul block and tackle installed to adjust it from very full, to near flat. This allows faster beating, higher pointing, and less heeling for a given wind over 18 knts. We now reef at 23-25 knts. or 35 deg. heel, or more than a 90 deg. movement of the top center marker on our wheel to counteract windward helm...instead of 18 knts wind.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~
Joel wrote: I've read many references to "blown out sails" and wonder what is meant by that expression.
I assume it doesn't mean that the sails have literally been blown apart at the seams (or anyplace, for that matter). Does it mean that the sails have stretched beyond a flat state? If one tightens the sheet all the way, is the sail supposed to become flat and taut? If it's floppy, how much floppiness is acceptable before there is a noticeable loss of performance? If floppy, can a sailmaker remedy this by cutting slits in the sail and sewing back together with overlaps?
Thanks for sharing the knowledge,
Joel Bondy
Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
demers@sgi.com
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John R.
Re: Blown out sails
I agree with Bob's description. To me it has always referred to a failed seam or torn panel. Bagged or stretched is what I've always known a tired sail to be when the shape is shot.Bob Bundy wrote: Joel,
I guess it depends upon your frame of reference. To me, "blown out sails" means exactly what you assumed that it didn't. "The headsail on my CD27 blew out in a as I was trying to get across the sound." In this case, the seams ripped apart and the sail was flapping in shreds. It may mean something else in some other context.
Bob Bundy
CD Typhoon #73
Oblivion
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Joel
How bagged or stretched is too much?
If the sail shape is shot, bagged or stretched, how bagged or stretched is considered too much so? At what point does the performance really suffer? I've heard new set of sails (main and jib) can cost more than $1k. Can a sailmaker repair stretches more economically?
bondy_joel@hotmail.com
bondy_joel@hotmail.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: How bagged or stretched is too much?
Bagging or stretching weakens the main..really all sails. WHat to look for is the draft or pocket of hte sail when set with the outhaul loosely held. The pocket should be very close to the mast..on our CD30, it starts about 2-3 ft. from the mast. On our old sails this pocket was in the middle of the sail! It was however, hard to realize how bad it was until we fitted the new sails to the boat.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~Sailing Lake Superior~~
demers@sgi.com
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~Sailing Lake Superior~~
Joel wrote: If the sail shape is shot, bagged or stretched, how bagged or stretched is considered too much so? At what point does the performance really suffer? I've heard new set of sails (main and jib) can cost more than $1k. Can a sailmaker repair stretches more economically?
demers@sgi.com