Is "she" doomed?

[John Vigor]

I have two questions for the erudite Cape Dory users of this board. As a boating journalist and author, I am faced with a mounting campaign to refer to boats as "it," rather than "she." Newspapers all over the country use the Associated Press stylebook, which mandates the use of "it," and several major book publishers have also adopted this rule.

While we all recognize the need to avoid sexist expressions in our speech and writing, isn't this taking things too far? After all, ships and boats have been feminine in English for so long now that nobody remembers how it started. Yet perhaps it's time the practice was stopped. I'd like to know if that's so.

So my questions are these:

* Are there any women Cape Dory sailors who object to seeing and hearing boats referred to as "she" and "her"? Conversely, are there any women who think we should retain the traditional usage? Let's hear your opinions, please.

* Does anyone have a good substitute for the word helmsman? It's the word that gives me the most trouble of all these days. Helmsperson and steersperson are too ugly and cumbersome to contemplate. Pilot is a possibility, but is not yet universally understood. Any suggestions?

John Vigor
CD25D "Jabula"



jvigor@qwest.net

[Don Carr]

John;
I have no opinion as to boat 'genders'. In racing the person steering the boat is usually termed the 'driver'.



carrd@us.ibm.com

[Don anonymous Sargeant]

Isn't it the natural order that a boat (she) is steered by a helmsMAN?
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~(she)
CD25D # 189
In hiding...

John;
I have no opinion as to boat 'genders'. In racing the person steering the boat is usually termed the 'driver'.

[Chris Cram]

John,

The words we use, the tones we create by the words we use and their meanings are all a part of good creative writing. To not use some traditional descriptive is ignoring history, to use it exclusively is limiting. I would use "her" to refer to a boat when speaking in classic terms, for example.
In the case of "her" or "she" the descriptive is a positive, not derogitory (sp) in any way. In French gender reference is important to impart meaning.

If, however, you were to write something like "She's a bitch to get to windward" That's just vulgar and the same thing could be said far more pleasantly (more intelligently).

Chris
CD 30 C



cccobx@prodigy.net

[Ivan Drago]

In Russia ships are referred to in the masculine. "He is a fine ship." Is that sexist?

[Neil Gordon]

>>Does anyone have a good substitute for the word helmsman? ... Pilot is a possibility, ...<<

"Pilot" already has a meaning and it's entirely related to navigation. "Piloting" a vessel and "steering" it are not the same thing.

"Driver" could work, but being a traditionalist...


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



cdory28@aol.com

[Neil Gordon]

>>"She's a bitch to get to windward."<<

The proper statement is, "She prefers sailing off the wind."

Compare "She's a bitch to get to windward," with "It's a bitch to get to windward."

One is a crude statement about a particular vessel's sailing characteristics, the other is a fact of life.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



cdory28@aol.com

[Mark Yashinsky]

Why have a gender after the word??? What wrong w/ just saying "Helm"??? i.e. "Helm, come to course 180", rather than "Helmsman, come to course 180"??? What ever gender the person steering is, they are the "Helm". Same for other positions. "Crew" is a little tough, but doable.

[Neil Gordon]

>>What wrong w/ just saying "Helm"???<<

That would have been like changing "mailman" to "mail." Conveniently, "letter carrier" is descriptive.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



cdory28@aol.com

[rick]

I have two questions for the erudite Cape Dory users of this board. As a boating journalist and author, I am faced with a mounting campaign to refer to boats as "it," rather than "she." Newspapers all over the country use the Associated Press stylebook, which mandates the use of "it," and several major book publishers have also adopted this rule.

While we all recognize the need to avoid sexist expressions in our speech and writing, isn't this taking things too far? After all, ships and boats have been feminine in English for so long now that

nobody remembers how it started. Yet perhaps it's time the practice was stopped. I'd like to know if that's so.

So my questions are these:

* Are there any women Cape Dory sailors who object to seeing and hearing boats referred to as "she" and "her"? Conversely, are there any women who think we should retain the traditional usage? Let's hear your opinions, please.

* Does anyone have a good substitute for the word helmsman? It's the word that gives me the most trouble of all these days. Helmsperson and steersperson are too ugly and cumbersome to contemplate. Pilot is a possibility, but is not yet universally understood. Any suggestions?

John Vigor
CD25D "Jabula"

Try this John,
The "helmsperson" is catching on and I think it is appropiate. But a boat is a direct personality of its sailing characteristics and "she " fits most of them. But refering to a boat as a non living thing would be hard for me as I have sailed my whole life. But this "boat" has a weather helm or this is a great boat does not bother me. So maybe "boat" should replace "she" then everybody will be happy. But to call a boat "it" is wrong.



ral408@aol.com

[M. R. Bober]

In the main, I would oppose the use of "it" for most craft. This would become more emphatic if the vessel in question were MINE (caps for emphasis). Even an ugly old stinkpot is someone's treasure.

As for the driver...
Having never considered the issue before, I would consider "at the helm" suitable. "Helmer" just won't do unless there is an autopilot on duty.

Stand your linguistic ground,
Mitchell Bober
RESPITE
CD330

[Warren Kaplan]

Some boats are named for people, thereby imparting genre to the boat. I see no problem in calling the Queen Elizabeth "she". I would find it odd if the QE2 was referred to as "he". Perhaps boats not named for people should be referred to by their name or some abbreviation of that name. Sine Qua Non is not a bitch going to windward or Sine is not a bitch going to windward.

As for what to call various positions held by people in the crew, well, I've always been partial to "Hey You!" You don't have to change terms no matter who you are talking to and when you shout "hey you" everyone on the boat, not knowing immediately if you are talking to them, looks up and pays attention to you. Not a bad response, that. Then you can bark orders to everyone. Steer closer to the wind. Ease that jib sheet. No "politically correct" genre problems with that. I usually have only one crew member aboard..my wife. Seems if I yell "hey you" at her, she doesn't follow orders. Then again, if I ask, Julie, or honey or sweetheart, she doesn't follow orders either. Oh well!

Warren Kaplan
Captain who is supposed to be commanding Sine Qua Non
CD27



Setsail728@aol.com

[Bill Gosselin]

I am a ships officer in the U.S. Merchant Marines since 1776 and hold an unlimited tonnage captains license. A ship is still refered to as "she", a "helmsman" is still a helmsman, and there is a reference to a part of a capstan that we use for mooring lines known as a "niggerhead". This does not have a racial meaning and aboard my third ship, the operation of this line-handling device, was refered to by our chief mate (who happened to be of color) as a "niggerhead" without any refrain. This is still in use today and people who try to interfere with seagoing customs should remain ashore or maybe start their own sea terminology and stay as armchair sailors, because these references do not have a derogatory meaning and hopefully will always remain as a custom for us professionals.



gbsoap@ttlc.net

[david low]

John:

With deference to your chosen profession...I think that if the political correctness of our lives gets to the point where we are debating this....we have way to much time on our hands.

fwit

dave



davidlow@erols.com

[huw]

One of the things that makes the English language absolutely brilliant is the anachronisms fossilized within it. Sure, a boat most likely doesn't fit the standard anatomical requirements for being a female. And we don't pronounce the "b" in "debt". But that doesn't mean that all the irrationalities of our language are there for no reason. Rather, they reflect a thousand years of evolution and history and tradition. While those expressions which are patently offensive deserve to fall by the wayside, if we were to remove all those words, spellings, and idiomatic expressions that can't withstand the x-ray laser beam of modern rationalism, I should think that we would find ourselves very impoverished indeed.

As far as my boat is concerned, may she always enjoy fair winds, and helmsmanship worthy of her grace.

p.s., i think sailnet recently reviewed a book by one John Vigor. Could it be that we are graced by the presence of the self-same author?

p.p.s. if so, can i get a discount?