My wife and I have just had our offer on a CD36, hull #140 accepted by
the seller. Obviously, a survey is next along with a sea trial. I'd
be very grateful for any suggestions on areas to pay particular atten-
tion to on the survey. We are experienced coastal cruisers contem-
plating a circumnavigation in the next few years. Any problems
unique to Cape Dory's that you may be aware of? The boat is in
excellent condition with a great deal of attention evident. Many
thanks for your recommendations and comments.
grabhamb@chesterfield.gov
CD36 Survey Questions
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Ryan Turner
Check the chainplates
The chainplates are attached to a structure made of mild steel that is then glassed into the hull. Check to be sure previous leaks haven't rusted the structure. Access by looking inside lockers or however you have to to look at the hull-deck joint immediately underneath the shrouds.
rdtsails@msn.com
rdtsails@msn.com
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David Brownlee
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Chris Cram
Re: CD36 Survey Questions
Find a surveyor who is extremely proficient (sp) with his moisture meter!!!!!
Check for rusted water heater
Check for rusted backing plate to the wheel pedestal
Chris Cram
cccobx@prodigy.net
Check for rusted water heater
Check for rusted backing plate to the wheel pedestal
Chris Cram
cccobx@prodigy.net
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Patrick Turner
Re: CD36 Survey Questions
Just all the stuff a good surveyor should normally discover. The only difference between the CD36 and the smaller boats is, the CD36 has fuel/water tanks located in the bilge and I don't believe the others do. Check to make sure that these are sound (no rust or leaking)cuz it is a big job to replace them.
I'm sure your probably getting an engine survey as well? It'll tack on another $3-400 bucks, but it's nice to know how the engine is.
What shape is the running rigging in? It'll cost about $1000 to replace.
The chain plate problem Ryan mentioned earlier is a particular problem with Cape Dory's and one a surveyor might not catch.
While the boats out of the water take a good look at the rudder, cutlass bearing and the bronze shoe that the rudder sits in at the bottom of the keel.
Also, there was a thread on this board not too long ago about the sheaves and cotter pins that are a part of the steering mechanizm below the cockpit. See if you can find that and read up on it.....nother CD probelm.
What year is your potentially/hopefully new Cape Dory 36?
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
I'm sure your probably getting an engine survey as well? It'll tack on another $3-400 bucks, but it's nice to know how the engine is.
What shape is the running rigging in? It'll cost about $1000 to replace.
The chain plate problem Ryan mentioned earlier is a particular problem with Cape Dory's and one a surveyor might not catch.
While the boats out of the water take a good look at the rudder, cutlass bearing and the bronze shoe that the rudder sits in at the bottom of the keel.
Also, there was a thread on this board not too long ago about the sheaves and cotter pins that are a part of the steering mechanizm below the cockpit. See if you can find that and read up on it.....nother CD probelm.
What year is your potentially/hopefully new Cape Dory 36?
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
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Ken Coit
Re: CD36 Survey Questions
Congratulations on finding that boat! Having spent several years in the process, I know what a relief it can be to have an offer accepted. However, this is a good time to be cautious, as you seem to know.
Little things that have been troublesome in getting Parfait ready for more than day sails:
Seacocks that work. Be sure to have the surveyor check them all, including the port cockpit drain. There are lots of posts on what to do to service them on this board, but reaching them is the first problem.
Equipment mounted where it shouldn't be, like on the access panel from the engine compartment to the port locker where the port cockpit drain seacock resides.
Equipment that doesn't work, like the block and tackle / preventer / vang that was aboard Parfait, the VHF with the deteriorating volume/power control, and the speedo impeller housing that had been painted from the outside so that the impeller could not be slipped in.
As someone else mentioned, if she has an Edson pedestal and sheave assembly, you might want to check the sheave pins to make certain they are stainless, not bronze. It will depend a lot on how much the boat has been used, but the bronze sheave pins have been know to wear through. I just replaced the pins on Parfait, an '83 boat, and they were barely worn, but others have lost steering from this failure. The pins do not rotate, so the wear is concentrated in one spot.
As was also suggested, get a survey of the engine including an analysis of the oil.
The other lesson I have learned the hard way is that you should be there for the surveys, and be there when the remedial work is done, so you don't have to crawl into the port locker, for example, to see if anyone actually did service the seacock. This is a good thing to practice, but if you are paying someone else, you ought to get your money's worth. I was told with regard to an engine vibration that the engine alignment had been checked. I can assure you that with all the rust present on the bolt heads, and the loose engine mount nut, that the alignment was not checked. Cleaning the prop and tightening that nut made a world of difference.
Good luck with your survey. Carl Alberg designed a great boat and Cape Dory did a relatively great job of building it. Now it is time to see how it has survived the years.
Ken
S/V Parfait
Raleigh, NC
parfait@rr.nc.com
Little things that have been troublesome in getting Parfait ready for more than day sails:
Seacocks that work. Be sure to have the surveyor check them all, including the port cockpit drain. There are lots of posts on what to do to service them on this board, but reaching them is the first problem.
Equipment mounted where it shouldn't be, like on the access panel from the engine compartment to the port locker where the port cockpit drain seacock resides.
Equipment that doesn't work, like the block and tackle / preventer / vang that was aboard Parfait, the VHF with the deteriorating volume/power control, and the speedo impeller housing that had been painted from the outside so that the impeller could not be slipped in.
As someone else mentioned, if she has an Edson pedestal and sheave assembly, you might want to check the sheave pins to make certain they are stainless, not bronze. It will depend a lot on how much the boat has been used, but the bronze sheave pins have been know to wear through. I just replaced the pins on Parfait, an '83 boat, and they were barely worn, but others have lost steering from this failure. The pins do not rotate, so the wear is concentrated in one spot.
As was also suggested, get a survey of the engine including an analysis of the oil.
The other lesson I have learned the hard way is that you should be there for the surveys, and be there when the remedial work is done, so you don't have to crawl into the port locker, for example, to see if anyone actually did service the seacock. This is a good thing to practice, but if you are paying someone else, you ought to get your money's worth. I was told with regard to an engine vibration that the engine alignment had been checked. I can assure you that with all the rust present on the bolt heads, and the loose engine mount nut, that the alignment was not checked. Cleaning the prop and tightening that nut made a world of difference.
Good luck with your survey. Carl Alberg designed a great boat and Cape Dory did a relatively great job of building it. Now it is time to see how it has survived the years.
Ken
S/V Parfait
Raleigh, NC
Bob Grabham wrote: My wife and I have just had our offer on a CD36, hull #140 accepted by
the seller. Obviously, a survey is next along with a sea trial. I'd
be very grateful for any suggestions on areas to pay particular atten-
tion to on the survey. We are experienced coastal cruisers contem-
plating a circumnavigation in the next few years. Any problems
unique to Cape Dory's that you may be aware of? The boat is in
excellent condition with a great deal of attention evident. Many
thanks for your recommendations and comments.
parfait@rr.nc.com
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Bill Michne
Re: CD36 Survey Questions
Don't use a surveyor recommended by the seller or broker.Bob Grabham wrote: My wife and I have just had our offer on a CD36, hull #140 accepted by
the seller. Obviously, a survey is next along with a sea trial. I'd
be very grateful for any suggestions on areas to pay particular atten-
tion to on the survey. We are experienced coastal cruisers contem-
plating a circumnavigation in the next few years. Any problems
unique to Cape Dory's that you may be aware of? The boat is in
excellent condition with a great deal of attention evident. Many
thanks for your recommendations and comments.
If the engine is a Perkins 4-108 it almost certainly leaks oil, especially if it has something close to 3000 hours. Cleaning oil out of the bilge is a nightmare. The suggestion of an engine survey was a good one.
If the boat has been in salt water look for corosion, especially where SS meets aluminum (e.g., around hatch hardware and mast fittings).
Regardless of the outcome of the survey, be prepared to replace a lot of parts in the first couple of years.
Been there.
Bill Michne
s/v Mintaka
CD 40 #7
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zeida
Re: CD36 Survey Questions
Important to know what year your potential CD-36 is.. Make sure the surveyor Checks ALL the hoses in the engine... make list of those that NEED to be replaced, with corroded hose clamps. Check the hose from the holding tank to the seacocks - to the deck plate that will allow for a pump-out hose, check the hose from the engine to water heater, from the fuel tank to engine, from the water pump to the engine... check the heat exchanger for corrosion on the end cap... check the plate where the muffler sits that attaches to the transmission, for possible corrosion or loose bolts... check the engine mounts!!! Very important. Are those bolts in tight as they should? Check for the air/vent hoses that will take air in and out of engine compartment... are they in good shape? Steering system: are those cables down there in good shape? The cables from forward and reverse from the ped to the engine... have they ever been replaced? How old are they?
Check the hull for the blue ooze, once the boat is out of the water. If you find the tiny dark spots on the hull, leaking liquid, you have a BLISTER problem. You need to let the boat sit dry for a couple of days so you can spot this problem. Check the rudder for water inside -again due to blisters- many CD's suffer from this. It can be remedied, but you better know about it up front.
The electrical: remove the electrical plate inside the boat where all your switches are and LOOK at how those cables are connected to the busbar... are they neatly organized, labeled and can you understand what each means..? or do you see a spaghetti mess in there, where different cables have been added in a disorganized fashion. They will be much more difficult to fix later. Are your navigation instruments working properly? The water tanks inside the boat, are they in good shape? How about the hoses that take water to those tanks? Make sure you see them.. they run inside the salon lockers and you want to know they are not leaking, etc. Do you have a GOOD bilge pump? Only one? You will need a back-up pump in there. Are ALL the switches in the electrical panel working?
How many tiny spider cracks in your gelcoat? Are they mainly in the compression points around the boat? Is your cockpit floor SOLID? Check for possible water leak around chainplates and all other hardware on deck. Of course, all these are things we all have gone thru on due time with our boats -I have a 1982 CD-33 - and have slowly fixed... but it's good to know these are potential problemsd. Other than that, you will have a BEAUTIFUL yacht, one that will make you so very proud of having her. Good luck.
Zeida
zcecil@attglobal.net
Check the hull for the blue ooze, once the boat is out of the water. If you find the tiny dark spots on the hull, leaking liquid, you have a BLISTER problem. You need to let the boat sit dry for a couple of days so you can spot this problem. Check the rudder for water inside -again due to blisters- many CD's suffer from this. It can be remedied, but you better know about it up front.
The electrical: remove the electrical plate inside the boat where all your switches are and LOOK at how those cables are connected to the busbar... are they neatly organized, labeled and can you understand what each means..? or do you see a spaghetti mess in there, where different cables have been added in a disorganized fashion. They will be much more difficult to fix later. Are your navigation instruments working properly? The water tanks inside the boat, are they in good shape? How about the hoses that take water to those tanks? Make sure you see them.. they run inside the salon lockers and you want to know they are not leaking, etc. Do you have a GOOD bilge pump? Only one? You will need a back-up pump in there. Are ALL the switches in the electrical panel working?
How many tiny spider cracks in your gelcoat? Are they mainly in the compression points around the boat? Is your cockpit floor SOLID? Check for possible water leak around chainplates and all other hardware on deck. Of course, all these are things we all have gone thru on due time with our boats -I have a 1982 CD-33 - and have slowly fixed... but it's good to know these are potential problemsd. Other than that, you will have a BEAUTIFUL yacht, one that will make you so very proud of having her. Good luck.
Zeida
zcecil@attglobal.net
-
zeida
Re: CD36 Survey Questions
Important to know what year your potential CD-36 is.. Make sure the surveyor Checks ALL the hoses in the engine... make list of those that NEED to be replaced, with corroded hose clamps. Check the hose from the holding tank to the seacocks - to the deck plate that will allow for a pump-out hose, check the hose from the engine to water heater, from the fuel tank to engine, from the water pump to the engine... check the heat exchanger for corrosion on the end cap... check the plate where the muffler sits that attaches to the transmission, for possible corrosion or loose bolts... check the engine mounts!!! Very important. Are those bolts in tight as they should? Check for the air/vent hoses that will take air in and out of engine compartment... are they in good shape? Steering system: are those cables down there in good shape? The cables from forward and reverse from the ped to the engine... have they ever been replaced? How old are they?
Check the hull for the blue ooze, once the boat is out of the water. If you find the tiny dark spots on the hull, leaking liquid, you have a BLISTER problem. You need to let the boat sit dry for a couple of days so you can spot this problem. Check the rudder for water inside -again due to blisters- many CD's suffer from this. It can be remedied, but you better know about it up front.
The electrical: remove the electrical plate inside the boat where all your switches are and LOOK at how those cables are connected to the busbar... are they neatly organized, labeled and can you understand what each means..? or do you see a spaghetti mess in there, where different cables have been added in a disorganized fashion. They will be much more difficult to fix later. Are your navigation instruments working properly? The water tanks inside the boat, are they in good shape? How about the hoses that take water to those tanks? Make sure you see them.. they run inside the salon lockers and you want to know they are not leaking, etc. Do you have a GOOD bilge pump? Only one? You will need a back-up pump in there. Are ALL the switches in the electrical panel working?
How many tiny spider cracks in your gelcoat? Are they mainly in the compression points around the boat? Is your cockpit floor SOLID? Check for possible water leak around chainplates and all other hardware on deck. Of course, all these are things we all have gone thru on due time with our boats -I have a 1982 CD-33 - and have slowly fixed... but it's good to know these are potential problemsd. Other than that, you will have a BEAUTIFUL yacht, one that will make you so very proud of having her. Good luck.
Zeida
zcecil@attglobal.net
Check the hull for the blue ooze, once the boat is out of the water. If you find the tiny dark spots on the hull, leaking liquid, you have a BLISTER problem. You need to let the boat sit dry for a couple of days so you can spot this problem. Check the rudder for water inside -again due to blisters- many CD's suffer from this. It can be remedied, but you better know about it up front.
The electrical: remove the electrical plate inside the boat where all your switches are and LOOK at how those cables are connected to the busbar... are they neatly organized, labeled and can you understand what each means..? or do you see a spaghetti mess in there, where different cables have been added in a disorganized fashion. They will be much more difficult to fix later. Are your navigation instruments working properly? The water tanks inside the boat, are they in good shape? How about the hoses that take water to those tanks? Make sure you see them.. they run inside the salon lockers and you want to know they are not leaking, etc. Do you have a GOOD bilge pump? Only one? You will need a back-up pump in there. Are ALL the switches in the electrical panel working?
How many tiny spider cracks in your gelcoat? Are they mainly in the compression points around the boat? Is your cockpit floor SOLID? Check for possible water leak around chainplates and all other hardware on deck. Of course, all these are things we all have gone thru on due time with our boats -I have a 1982 CD-33 - and have slowly fixed... but it's good to know these are potential problemsd. Other than that, you will have a BEAUTIFUL yacht, one that will make you so very proud of having her. Good luck.
Zeida
zcecil@attglobal.net
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John R.
Re: CD36 Survey Questions
Here's my list:Bob Grabham wrote: My wife and I have just had our offer on a CD36, hull #140 accepted by
the seller. Obviously, a survey is next along with a sea trial. I'd
be very grateful for any suggestions on areas to pay particular atten-
tion to on the survey. We are experienced coastal cruisers contem-
plating a circumnavigation in the next few years. Any problems
unique to Cape Dory's that you may be aware of? The boat is in
excellent condition with a great deal of attention evident. Many
thanks for your recommendations and comments.
1) Chainplate ferrous metal support steel braces.
2) Headstay/stem and backstay/chainplate ferrous metal support steel braces.
3) Pedestal steering ferrous metal support steel bracing.
4) Lower bobstay fitting aluminum backing block and fasteners.
5) Water, holding and any other HDPE (high density polyethelyne) tanks and fittings manufactured by Kracor.
6) Hull osmosis damage (particularly small pox type).
7) Deck gelcoat cosmetic cracking, not stress crazing (however, this is possible also).
8) Companionway leaks around upper teak trim at seam with cabin top.
9) Double check the pedestal steering cable sheave pins (axles) for excessive wear.
These are the only items I know of that have been noted to occur particularly with CD's not typical with other production boats. Otherwise the typical systems and hull problems can potentially develop as with any boat. In most cases these boats survey out quite well.
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Bob Grabham
Re: CD36 Survey Questions
Many thanks to all the Cape Dory owner's who took the time to respond to my question about the survey. I really appreciate having a great group of owner's who have obviously done all this before. The boat is a 1986 Navigator and, assuming the survey goes well, we'll be sailing her out of Regent Point Marina on the Rappahannock River and the Chesapeake Bay. My wife and I are looking forward to getting together with other CD owners. We haven't decided yet whether to change the name of the vessel. Shouldn't speak about that near the boat anyway. Please hail if you see us on the intracoastal waterway coming from the Pamlico River to the Rappahannock, probably on the weekend of the 28th. Probably a four day trip. Thanks again for all the input.
grabhamb@chesterfield.gov
grabhamb@chesterfield.gov
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Tim Smale
Re: CD36 Survey Questions
I didn't see anyone post about electrical problems. My CD 36 had one house battery and one starting battery, both going to the selector switch. The cable length from the starting battery, to the switch, and to the starter caused so much voltage drop that I couldn't even start the engine when the battery was a bit weak (remember that you multiply by 2 on the run length when looking at the voltage drop charts). The voltage meter is a rough indication of battery condition - the only good way to manage your electrical system is by measuring amps in and out with your choice of many good meters available.
I switched it so that I now have a dedicated starting battery with a direct run to the starter (not to the selector switch). The starting battery is totally seperate from the house system, and is only charged by by wind generator (if it dies I'll run a jumper cable from the house batteries). The house system was beefed up with 4 6-volt golf cart batteries charged by a high output alternator, and/or wind generator, all managed by a Heart Interface Link Monitor and 2000 series charger/inverter. Overkill? Maybe, but I'll not be stuck in a gale and not be able to start the engine again like I was in '97!
tim@iga.org
I switched it so that I now have a dedicated starting battery with a direct run to the starter (not to the selector switch). The starting battery is totally seperate from the house system, and is only charged by by wind generator (if it dies I'll run a jumper cable from the house batteries). The house system was beefed up with 4 6-volt golf cart batteries charged by a high output alternator, and/or wind generator, all managed by a Heart Interface Link Monitor and 2000 series charger/inverter. Overkill? Maybe, but I'll not be stuck in a gale and not be able to start the engine again like I was in '97!
tim@iga.org