In removing the propeller (and trying to remove the coupling) from my prop shaft, some wild swings with my hammer put some small dings into the shaft. Some of the dings (less than 1mm in width or depth) fall where the shaft meets the cutless bearing, which I am replacing. Others may fall where the packing meets the shaft.
Are these dings a major problem? I was thinking I would take some fine sandpaper and/or bronze wool and smooth the surface of the shaft to make sure that there were no burrs. Do I need to get the shaft machined instead?
Thanks in advance for any advice,
Stephen
sailing@star.net
CD22D "Elizabeth"
sailing@star.net
Dinged Prop Shaft -- A Problem?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: Dinged Prop Shaft -- A Problem?
Stephen,
I suggest that you send the prop, coupling and shaft to a good prop shop and get them to look things over. If you hit the shaft and/or coupling it/they may be slightly bent, which can cause vibration, wear and leaking. I had my shaft checked several years ago when I put a new cutlass bearing in. The work that I had done I considered one of the true bargains in the marine business. I sent my parts to Kastell brothers, I think that they are on Talbot street in St. Michaels, Md. They can straighten shafts and couplings, check and change pitch on props and balance the parts as an assembly.
Matt
Mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I suggest that you send the prop, coupling and shaft to a good prop shop and get them to look things over. If you hit the shaft and/or coupling it/they may be slightly bent, which can cause vibration, wear and leaking. I had my shaft checked several years ago when I put a new cutlass bearing in. The work that I had done I considered one of the true bargains in the marine business. I sent my parts to Kastell brothers, I think that they are on Talbot street in St. Michaels, Md. They can straighten shafts and couplings, check and change pitch on props and balance the parts as an assembly.
Matt
Stephen wrote: In removing the propeller (and trying to remove the coupling) from my prop shaft, some wild swings with my hammer put some small dings into the shaft. Some of the dings (less than 1mm in width or depth) fall where the shaft meets the cutless bearing, which I am replacing. Others may fall where the packing meets the shaft.
Are these dings a major problem? I was thinking I would take some fine sandpaper and/or bronze wool and smooth the surface of the shaft to make sure that there were no burrs. Do I need to get the shaft machined instead?
Thanks in advance for any advice,
Stephen
sailing@star.net
CD22D "Elizabeth"
Mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Matt
Re: Dinged Prop Shaft -- other methods
In case it makes you feel any better, I called Robinhood Marine 4 years ago when I wanted to remove my shaft (CD36) and they told me that they use a hacksaw and cut it in half and put a new one in. They said that the time to try and get the old one out was worth more than the cost of a new shaft.
I heard of another method of removing the coupling without hammering. First remove the rubber doughnut. Loosen any set screws or bolts holding the coupling on the shaft. Put a socket or some other spacer which is smaller in diameter than the shaft in line with the shaft between the two pieces of the coupling. Put the bolts back into the coupling and draw the two halves together. This process relies on having the bolt holes in the two parts of the coupling line up. When you do this the shaft gets pushed out. The process might not work for all couplings, but I know it works for some. Be careful to tighten the 4 bolts evenly, like a half turn on the bolt, and then go to the next bolt or you could bend the coupling.
Good luck.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I heard of another method of removing the coupling without hammering. First remove the rubber doughnut. Loosen any set screws or bolts holding the coupling on the shaft. Put a socket or some other spacer which is smaller in diameter than the shaft in line with the shaft between the two pieces of the coupling. Put the bolts back into the coupling and draw the two halves together. This process relies on having the bolt holes in the two parts of the coupling line up. When you do this the shaft gets pushed out. The process might not work for all couplings, but I know it works for some. Be careful to tighten the 4 bolts evenly, like a half turn on the bolt, and then go to the next bolt or you could bend the coupling.
Good luck.
Matt
Stephen wrote: In removing the propeller (and trying to remove the coupling) from my prop shaft, some wild swings with my hammer put some small dings into the shaft. Some of the dings (less than 1mm in width or depth) fall where the shaft meets the cutless bearing, which I am replacing. Others may fall where the packing meets the shaft.
Are these dings a major problem? I was thinking I would take some fine sandpaper and/or bronze wool and smooth the surface of the shaft to make sure that there were no burrs. Do I need to get the shaft machined instead?
Thanks in advance for any advice,
Stephen
sailing@star.net
CD22D "Elizabeth"
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Tom B
Re: Dinged Prop Shaft -- cut it off
Stephen: Go with the Robinhood Marine method.It will take some time to cut with a hand hacksaw, as there is little room to work.
When a boat is in a saltwater environment for sometime,things corrode and shafts seize in their couplers. If you use a socket or whatever between the coupler and transmission damage can result ie:transmission seal.
I had to cut the shaft off of a cd28, it took a 600 ton press to remove the piece of shaft from the coupler. When installing new shaft put a little anti-seizing in coupler and remove shaft every year this eliminates future problems.
happy cutting
When a boat is in a saltwater environment for sometime,things corrode and shafts seize in their couplers. If you use a socket or whatever between the coupler and transmission damage can result ie:transmission seal.
I had to cut the shaft off of a cd28, it took a 600 ton press to remove the piece of shaft from the coupler. When installing new shaft put a little anti-seizing in coupler and remove shaft every year this eliminates future problems.
happy cutting
Stephen wrote: In removing the propeller (and trying to remove the coupling) from my prop shaft, some wild swings with my hammer put some small dings into the shaft. Some of the dings (less than 1mm in width or depth) fall where the shaft meets the cutless bearing, which I am replacing. Others may fall where the packing meets the shaft.
Are these dings a major problem? I was thinking I would take some fine sandpaper and/or bronze wool and smooth the surface of the shaft to make sure that there were no burrs. Do I need to get the shaft machined instead?
Thanks in advance for any advice,
Stephen
sailing@star.net
CD22D "Elizabeth"
-
Stephen
Re: Dinged Prop Shaft -- A Problem?
Perhaps I didn't make it clear that I did get the shaft out. After pounding away for a while, I ended up sitting, sweating, and breathing deeply inside my cabin, looking at the problem. I started looking at the engine itself: hmm, I thought, the electrical connections look pretty easy to uncouple; the fuel lines are hose-clamped on; same for the exhaust tubing; I think I might just be able to manhandle this small diesel into the cabin.
And so I did. I removed the diesel, using scrap wood to lever it off the various mounts. The prop I removed by placing a piece of scrap wood between the prop and the deadwood of the hull, loosening the Perry nut, and pounding on the nut.
Then I took Matt's advice and took the shaft and prop to a prop company (conveniently located about 4 blocks away here in Salem, MA). For $50, they will machine and balance the shaft and coupling. For an additional $35, they will take the dings out of the prop and balance and align it properly. From what I understand I will just have to put the shaft back in, replace the prop, align the shaft and engine, and I'm in business. (I'm hoping the result of this will be less vibration than I previously felt. This will be my second summer with the boat, so I've had one summer to shake it down for problems.)
The only remaining problem is getting the damn cutless bearing out. I already have the replacement part, but I'm having a hell of a time getting the old one out. I started by pounding with a copper pipe from the inside. Then I chipped away the epoxy and removed the set screws. It still wouldn't budge. I've tried cutting it with a hacksaw blade, but my blade was dull and I had a hard time. I've since purchased a new blade, along with a handle for cutting into tight spots, and I plan to cut the thing into pieces and remove it tomorrow.
Thanks for all of your tips,
Stephen
P.S. The link to Elizabeth was wrong. The correct one is below.
sailing@star.net
And so I did. I removed the diesel, using scrap wood to lever it off the various mounts. The prop I removed by placing a piece of scrap wood between the prop and the deadwood of the hull, loosening the Perry nut, and pounding on the nut.
Then I took Matt's advice and took the shaft and prop to a prop company (conveniently located about 4 blocks away here in Salem, MA). For $50, they will machine and balance the shaft and coupling. For an additional $35, they will take the dings out of the prop and balance and align it properly. From what I understand I will just have to put the shaft back in, replace the prop, align the shaft and engine, and I'm in business. (I'm hoping the result of this will be less vibration than I previously felt. This will be my second summer with the boat, so I've had one summer to shake it down for problems.)
The only remaining problem is getting the damn cutless bearing out. I already have the replacement part, but I'm having a hell of a time getting the old one out. I started by pounding with a copper pipe from the inside. Then I chipped away the epoxy and removed the set screws. It still wouldn't budge. I've tried cutting it with a hacksaw blade, but my blade was dull and I had a hard time. I've since purchased a new blade, along with a handle for cutting into tight spots, and I plan to cut the thing into pieces and remove it tomorrow.
Thanks for all of your tips,
Stephen
P.S. The link to Elizabeth was wrong. The correct one is below.
sailing@star.net
-
Matt Cawthorne
Re: Dinged Prop Shaft -- cutlass replacement
Stephen,
I am impressed that you had the guts to pull the engine! I did the cutlass removal with a hacksaw when I replaced mine. It was a frustrating job, but it eventually did come out. When it was out I realized that it may have been able to be pulled out by jacking it out with a piece of all-thread, some nuts and washers and a spacer tube. The washers would have to be of a precise size to just catch the edge of the cutlass bearing. This would require that the cutlass bearing expose a shoulder on the inside of the housing. Next time I will try this method.
What was a problem for me was the actual replacement. I was advised to freeze the bearing in a freezer and then quickly stuff it it into the support tube. The advice that I had been given is that dry ice can delaminate the bearing. The trouble is that the bearing has a thin wall. It went in about half way and by the time I could pick up a piece of wood and a hammer it had heated right up to the temperature of the support tube. At that point it did not want to go in or come out. I did not want to hammer on the bearing, but that is the way I eventually got it in. I would suggest that if you do the freezing technique that you have someone ready with a plastic or wooden mallet ready to give it a "tap" before it heats up. Better yet would be a metal shaft the size of the ID of the bearing with a shoulder on it. That way you would be sure to load the bearing squarely if you did have to tap it in. Perhaps others can comment on techniques that they have used and what has worked for them.
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I am impressed that you had the guts to pull the engine! I did the cutlass removal with a hacksaw when I replaced mine. It was a frustrating job, but it eventually did come out. When it was out I realized that it may have been able to be pulled out by jacking it out with a piece of all-thread, some nuts and washers and a spacer tube. The washers would have to be of a precise size to just catch the edge of the cutlass bearing. This would require that the cutlass bearing expose a shoulder on the inside of the housing. Next time I will try this method.
What was a problem for me was the actual replacement. I was advised to freeze the bearing in a freezer and then quickly stuff it it into the support tube. The advice that I had been given is that dry ice can delaminate the bearing. The trouble is that the bearing has a thin wall. It went in about half way and by the time I could pick up a piece of wood and a hammer it had heated right up to the temperature of the support tube. At that point it did not want to go in or come out. I did not want to hammer on the bearing, but that is the way I eventually got it in. I would suggest that if you do the freezing technique that you have someone ready with a plastic or wooden mallet ready to give it a "tap" before it heats up. Better yet would be a metal shaft the size of the ID of the bearing with a shoulder on it. That way you would be sure to load the bearing squarely if you did have to tap it in. Perhaps others can comment on techniques that they have used and what has worked for them.
Stephen wrote: Perhaps I didn't make it clear that I did get the shaft out. After pounding away for a while, I ended up sitting, sweating, and breathing deeply inside my cabin, looking at the problem. I started looking at the engine itself: hmm, I thought, the electrical connections look pretty easy to uncouple; the fuel lines are hose-clamped on; same for the exhaust tubing; I think I might just be able to manhandle this small diesel into the cabin.
And so I did. I removed the diesel, using scrap wood to lever it off the various mounts. The prop I removed by placing a piece of scrap wood between the prop and the deadwood of the hull, loosening the Perry nut, and pounding on the nut.
Then I took Matt's advice and took the shaft and prop to a prop company (conveniently located about 4 blocks away here in Salem, MA). For $50, they will machine and balance the shaft and coupling. For an additional $35, they will take the dings out of the prop and balance and align it properly. From what I understand I will just have to put the shaft back in, replace the prop, align the shaft and engine, and I'm in business. (I'm hoping the result of this will be less vibration than I previously felt. This will be my second summer with the boat, so I've had one summer to shake it down for problems.)
The only remaining problem is getting the damn cutless bearing out. I already have the replacement part, but I'm having a hell of a time getting the old one out. I started by pounding with a copper pipe from the inside. Then I chipped away the epoxy and removed the set screws. It still wouldn't budge. I've tried cutting it with a hacksaw blade, but my blade was dull and I had a hard time. I've since purchased a new blade, along with a handle for cutting into tight spots, and I plan to cut the thing into pieces and remove it tomorrow.
Thanks for all of your tips,
Stephen
P.S. The link to Elizabeth was wrong. The correct one is below.
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
-
Matt Cawthorne
Re: Dinged Prop Shaft -- cut it off?
Tom,
I may not have been very clear in the previous message. The socket goes between the two halves of the coupling, NOT between the inner half of the coupling and the transmission. This way the loads stay within the coupling and the prop shaft and do not load the transmission in any way. If the half of the coupling on the transmission side mounts on the transmission output shaft in such a way that the socket or spacer would tend to pull that side of the coupling off then put a piece of metal in place to bridge the hole in the coupling on the transmission side. I think that if a coupling is not too seriously stuck on the shaft that this would be simpler than cutting the old shaft off. It is merely one tool in the maintenance arsenel. A heat gun may also help a little.
I do agree completely that you should never try to load the transmission to install/remove a prop or a coupling. Bearings can be easily damaged with heavy hammering or prying. A propeller puller is far cheaper than a transmission.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I may not have been very clear in the previous message. The socket goes between the two halves of the coupling, NOT between the inner half of the coupling and the transmission. This way the loads stay within the coupling and the prop shaft and do not load the transmission in any way. If the half of the coupling on the transmission side mounts on the transmission output shaft in such a way that the socket or spacer would tend to pull that side of the coupling off then put a piece of metal in place to bridge the hole in the coupling on the transmission side. I think that if a coupling is not too seriously stuck on the shaft that this would be simpler than cutting the old shaft off. It is merely one tool in the maintenance arsenel. A heat gun may also help a little.
I do agree completely that you should never try to load the transmission to install/remove a prop or a coupling. Bearings can be easily damaged with heavy hammering or prying. A propeller puller is far cheaper than a transmission.
Matt
Tom B wrote: Stephen: Go with the Robinhood Marine method.It will take some time to cut with a hand hacksaw, as there is little room to work.
When a boat is in a saltwater environment for sometime,things corrode and shafts seize in their couplers. If you use a socket or whatever between the coupler and transmission damage can result ie:transmission seal.
I had to cut the shaft off of a cd28, it took a 600 ton press to remove the piece of shaft from the coupler. When installing new shaft put a little anti-seizing in coupler and remove shaft every year this eliminates future problems.
happy cutting
Stephen wrote: In removing the propeller (and trying to remove the coupling) from my prop shaft, some wild swings with my hammer put some small dings into the shaft. Some of the dings (less than 1mm in width or depth) fall where the shaft meets the cutless bearing, which I am replacing. Others may fall where the packing meets the shaft.
Are these dings a major problem? I was thinking I would take some fine sandpaper and/or bronze wool and smooth the surface of the shaft to make sure that there were no burrs. Do I need to get the shaft machined instead?
Thanks in advance for any advice,
Stephen
sailing@star.net
CD22D "Elizabeth"
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net