Rig Tuning advice for a Ty

[Marino Curati]

I've had my boat in for a while now and have been out several times. The boat sails great now; I've added a new main, boom vang, reconditioned the headsails, etc. The problem is that I'm getting what I think is excessive weather helm. Even in very light winds, the boat shoots right up anywhere from a beat to a beam reach.

When I raised the mast and began tuning the rig, it came out very odd. I wanted to keep the rig on the loose side because of what I've read about over compressing the mast. I don't have a compression post below and my boat doesn't show any signs of being over stressed in the past. Obviously, I want to keep it that way.

The way the rig ended up was the lower shrouds turnbuckles are loosened almost all the way but still have good tension. Any more and they invert the mast. The uppers are about half way and seem fine. The forestay turnbuckle is max tightened but still doesn't have a whole lot of tension on it. The back stay is all the way as well and has very little tension on it. I'm not sure what to do with this rig. The mast is straight and shows some rake. Its obvious I need to retune but with some turnbuckles being max tight and others the opposite, I'm at a loss.

The only time there wasn't much weather helm was when I had a kite up on a beam reach. Which incidentally, for those who are considering a spinnaker, the boat really flies on a reach and goes a lot nicer downwind.

Thanks for any advice,
Marino Curati
Ty #74 Snug
Cleveland




mcurati@vision-design-inc.com

[Joel]

I don't know if this applies to the Ty, but I also own a Prindle 16' catamaran on which mast rake is used to manage weather helm. If the mast is raked too far astern, the balance of the wind force shifts astern. This causes the wind to push the back of the boat more than the front, thus generating weather helm. Leaning the mast forward would create lee helm, which the manual advises strongly against.

From what I've read, the additional strain this puts on your rudder assembly (not to mention the additional drag on your speed) warrants a fix sooner rather than later.

Joel
Pokey II
'73 Ty #549



bondy_joel@hotmail.com

[Richard Stephens]

Marino,

My guess is that, without a mast post, your cabin top and side decks have flexed over the years. Or you may have a compressed deck core at the mast step (yes, its balsa there).

If you put in a mast post, wedged in tight before you raise the mast, you'll probably lift the cabin top half an inch or so. That might enable you to take out the mast rake and help the weather helm. You can add a toggle to the lowers, to lengthen them an inch or so.

Regards,
Richard.

I've had my boat in for a while now and have been out several times. The boat sails great now; I've added a new main, boom vang, reconditioned the headsails, etc. The problem is that I'm getting what I think is excessive weather helm. Even in very light winds, the boat shoots right up anywhere from a beat to a beam reach.

When I raised the mast and began tuning the rig, it came out very odd. I wanted to keep the rig on the loose side because of what I've read about over compressing the mast. I don't have a compression post below and my boat doesn't show any signs of being over stressed in the past. Obviously, I want to keep it that way.

The way the rig ended up was the lower shrouds turnbuckles are loosened almost all the way but still have good tension. Any more and they invert the mast. The uppers are about half way and seem fine. The forestay turnbuckle is max tightened but still doesn't have a whole lot of tension on it. The back stay is all the way as well and has very little tension on it. I'm not sure what to do with this rig. The mast is straight and shows some rake. Its obvious I need to retune but with some turnbuckles being max tight and others the opposite, I'm at a loss.

The only time there wasn't much weather helm was when I had a kite up on a beam reach. Which incidentally, for those who are considering a spinnaker, the boat really flies on a reach and goes a lot nicer downwind.

Thanks for any advice,
Marino Curati
Ty #74 Snug
Cleveland

richard@memory-map.com

[Jim Lynch]

I've had my boat in for a while now and have been out several times. The boat sails great now; I've added a new main, boom vang, reconditioned the headsails, etc. The problem is that I'm getting what I think is excessive weather helm. Even in very light winds, the boat shoots right up anywhere from a beat to a beam reach.

When I raised the mast and began tuning the rig, it came out very odd. I wanted to keep the rig on the loose side because of what I've read about over compressing the mast. I don't have a compression post below and my boat doesn't show any signs of being over stressed in the past. Obviously, I want to keep it that way.

The way the rig ended up was the lower shrouds turnbuckles are loosened almost all the way but still have good tension. Any more and they invert the mast. The uppers are about half way and seem fine. The forestay turnbuckle is max tightened but still doesn't have a whole lot of tension on it. The back stay is all the way as well and has very little tension on it. I'm not sure what to do with this rig. The mast is straight and shows some rake. Its obvious I need to retune but with some turnbuckles being max tight and others the opposite, I'm at a loss.

The only time there wasn't much weather helm was when I had a kite up on a beam reach. Which incidentally, for those who are considering a spinnaker, the boat really flies on a reach and goes a lot nicer downwind.

Thanks for any advice,
Marino Curati
Ty #74 Snug
Cleveland

Marino
Weather helm is due to greater sail area aft of the center of effort and is not always a bad thing. For example if you used a main with no jib you would experience excessive weather helm. If you sailed with a jib and no main you would experience lee helm and have trouble pointing up. Ideally you would rig your boat to have a slight weather helm so your boat would point up in the event of a strong gust but you could otherwise steer the boat with a finger.

So you have two choices: use a larger jib or move your main forward. If your main mast is already tuned to be relatively straight, it's going to be hard to move it forward and your answer would be to get a larger jib. Also make sure you don't have your upper and lower shrouds reversed. Check your manual for proper placement.

Let me know what you figure out.

regards

Jim Lynch

Cape Dory Typhoon #1174



kate_holland@yahoo.com

[Bill McMahon]

It sounds to me like you need MORE rake.

Loosen the forestay turnbuckle and tighten the backstay's. This will reduce your weather helm (by moving the center of effort aft) and will "even out" the turnbuckles.

Remember that the backstay effects the forestay tension, and visa versa.



b4usail@aol.com

[sloopjohnl]

although you're cabintop may appear okay, you may be getting some sagging where the cabin sides meet the deck. check for longitudinal cracks here or pooling of water. the mast should have some rake but not excessive and the lower shrouds should be attached aft of the uppers. try a house jack for a temporary compression post, before adding something permanent and see if it makes a difference.

I've had my boat in for a while now and have been out several times. The boat sails great now; I've added a new main, boom vang, reconditioned the headsails, etc. The problem is that I'm getting what I think is excessive weather helm. Even in very light winds, the boat shoots right up anywhere from a beat to a beam reach.

When I raised the mast and began tuning the rig, it came out very odd. I wanted to keep the rig on the loose side because of what I've read about over compressing the mast. I don't have a compression post below and my boat doesn't show any signs of being over stressed in the past. Obviously, I want to keep it that way.

The way the rig ended up was the lower shrouds turnbuckles are loosened almost all the way but still have good tension. Any more and they invert the mast. The uppers are about half way and seem fine. The forestay turnbuckle is max tightened but still doesn't have a whole lot of tension on it. The back stay is all the way as well and has very little tension on it. I'm not sure what to do with this rig. The mast is straight and shows some rake. Its obvious I need to retune but with some turnbuckles being max tight and others the opposite, I'm at a loss.

The only time there wasn't much weather helm was when I had a kite up on a beam reach. Which incidentally, for those who are considering a spinnaker, the boat really flies on a reach and goes a lot nicer downwind.

Thanks for any advice,
Marino Curati
Ty #74 Snug
Cleveland