OK, I've read as much as my feeble brain can take on head sail trim. Nowhere can I find anything on the effect of a stay sail on both head sail and mailsail trim. Can anyone point me in the right direction or give me the "Ten Easy Steps" to cutter sail trim. Or is it simply "do to the stay sail, what you'd do to the jib" and enjoy?
Jim Newton
Alcyone CD30
jnewt@oakeselectric.com
Stay Sail Trim: lesson needed
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Jay Ankers
Re: Stay Sail Trim: lesson needed
From close-hauled to close-reach I trim both sails with their telltales flying in unison on both sides of each sail. Don't overtrim the yankee...the boat will point higher with more speed...not a tighter sail.Jim Newton wrote: I have a trim scheme that seems to work with my self tacking jib and yankee on our CD-30.
From close hauled to reaching, the main likes to have the luff breaking or the boat has too much weather helm. In any wind over 20 knots, reef the main and your boat speed and balance will be improved.
From close reach to broad reach I let the staysail out more than the yankee to keep the pressure on the inside of the staysail. Over trimming the yankee a little seems to help speed and balance. Tell tales on the jib are not useful at this point of sail unless the wind is blowing above 20 knots.
From broad reach to run...drop the jib....it only gets in the way of the yankee unless you are wing-on-wing with a wisker pole holding the yankee out to windward...now that is max sail area (if you don't have a chute)
I highly recommend an adjustable wisker pole for down wind sailing. Also using a preventer line from the main boom to the forward deck cleats prevents a lot of frustration (and head aches)
These sail trimming techniques have worked well on Per Diem on ocean passages as well as day sailing around the Chesapeake Bay and Maine coast.
Happy sailing
Jay Ankers
Per Diem
CD-30 #344
jankers@pii-cgmp.com
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Patrick Turner
Re: Stay Sail Trim: lesson needed
Also, general rule of thumb.....I snug the stays'l in tight so I can see the yankee tell tales. Then I trim the yankee so that it's flying right and then ease the stays'l back into position untill it's flying right. Trim from the front to the back with all sails.
Also, look for the book "The Power of Sails" I believe it's called.
It explains alot of how sails work and proper trim techniques.
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
Also, look for the book "The Power of Sails" I believe it's called.
It explains alot of how sails work and proper trim techniques.
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
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Catherine Monaghan
Re: Stay Sail Trim: lesson needed
Jim,
You may also want to take a look at how you've attached the staysail. The position of the tack and the clew make a difference as well as it will effect the shape of the sail. When I bend the staysail on in the Spring, I usually have to re-adjust the height of the tack line and the tension at the clew several times before I'm satisfied with the sail's shape when hoisted. Once I have it right, I usually don't touch it again. I try to keep the staysail relatively flat. If it has too much of a belly it will tend to backwind the main as well and you'll wonder why the main appears to be luffing. Your staysail may also have a leechline, ours does. Play with that too. Trim it as the others have suggested, and you should do alright.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
You may also want to take a look at how you've attached the staysail. The position of the tack and the clew make a difference as well as it will effect the shape of the sail. When I bend the staysail on in the Spring, I usually have to re-adjust the height of the tack line and the tension at the clew several times before I'm satisfied with the sail's shape when hoisted. Once I have it right, I usually don't touch it again. I try to keep the staysail relatively flat. If it has too much of a belly it will tend to backwind the main as well and you'll wonder why the main appears to be luffing. Your staysail may also have a leechline, ours does. Play with that too. Trim it as the others have suggested, and you should do alright.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
Jim Newton wrote: OK, I've read as much as my feeble brain can take on head sail trim. Nowhere can I find anything on the effect of a stay sail on both head sail and mailsail trim. Can anyone point me in the right direction or give me the "Ten Easy Steps" to cutter sail trim. Or is it simply "do to the stay sail, what you'd do to the jib" and enjoy?
Jim Newton
Alcyone CD30
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
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Ken Coit
Sail Power - Wallace Ross Re: Stay Sail Trim: lesson needed
Here's a brief review of Sail Power:
Sail Power: The complete guide to Sails and Sail Handling, Wallace Ross,Alfred Knopf, 492 pages, 1975. Where the power comes from. Though 20 years old, still valid. There may be a new edition coming out?
And another:
Sheer excellence, December 1, 1998 Reviewer: Kip Putnam (j29rcr@aol.com) from Corpus Christi, Tx, USA This is perhaps the best book for sailors to read, Fully comprehensive, it covers basic ideas like the slot theory, but also explains the Kutta-Joukowski theory that defies it. Ross goes on to describe other simple things as well as things that are not so simple. The book is well laid-out; chapters are in good order, more complex details towards the end of the book. What the table of contents does not tell about the location of a particular subject, the complete index does. At least as much testing of these theories as research went into the writing of this book. Although the thickness of the book attests to the complexity of the sport, its author explains each detail in a wonderfully simple style. No other book does so great a job of explaining the sport from beginniners to professionals.
They are often found in the nautical section of used book stores.
Ken
parfait@nc.rr.com
Sail Power: The complete guide to Sails and Sail Handling, Wallace Ross,Alfred Knopf, 492 pages, 1975. Where the power comes from. Though 20 years old, still valid. There may be a new edition coming out?
And another:
Sheer excellence, December 1, 1998 Reviewer: Kip Putnam (j29rcr@aol.com) from Corpus Christi, Tx, USA This is perhaps the best book for sailors to read, Fully comprehensive, it covers basic ideas like the slot theory, but also explains the Kutta-Joukowski theory that defies it. Ross goes on to describe other simple things as well as things that are not so simple. The book is well laid-out; chapters are in good order, more complex details towards the end of the book. What the table of contents does not tell about the location of a particular subject, the complete index does. At least as much testing of these theories as research went into the writing of this book. Although the thickness of the book attests to the complexity of the sport, its author explains each detail in a wonderfully simple style. No other book does so great a job of explaining the sport from beginniners to professionals.
They are often found in the nautical section of used book stores.
Ken
Patrick Turner wrote: Also, general rule of thumb.....I snug the stays'l in tight so I can see the yankee tell tales. Then I trim the yankee so that it's flying right and then ease the stays'l back into position untill it's flying right. Trim from the front to the back with all sails.
Also, look for the book "The Power of Sails" I believe it's called.
It explains alot of how sails work and proper trim techniques.
Pat
parfait@nc.rr.com
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Warren Kaplan
Re: Sail Power - Wallace Ross Re: Stay Sail Trim: lesson nee
Ken,
I bought Wallace Ross' Sail Power when it first came out years ago. I have to tell you that Wallace Ross has probably forgotten more about sails, sail handling and sail trim then all of us collectively on this board ever knew about it. And that is not a derogatory remark about my fellow Cape Dory CAPTAINS' knowledge of sail handling. He's got enough formulas and diagrams in that book to make your hair hurt....yet with all the technical information (from that age) you can still easily find a simple answer to a simple sail handling question. You get answers to the most simple or the most technical questions. I find Sail Power is constantly on my night table. I refer to it all the time.
Setsail728@aol.com
I bought Wallace Ross' Sail Power when it first came out years ago. I have to tell you that Wallace Ross has probably forgotten more about sails, sail handling and sail trim then all of us collectively on this board ever knew about it. And that is not a derogatory remark about my fellow Cape Dory CAPTAINS' knowledge of sail handling. He's got enough formulas and diagrams in that book to make your hair hurt....yet with all the technical information (from that age) you can still easily find a simple answer to a simple sail handling question. You get answers to the most simple or the most technical questions. I find Sail Power is constantly on my night table. I refer to it all the time.
Setsail728@aol.com