Further to my problem of what appears to be some 'fryed' electronics, I took the advice of the board and brought my voltmeter down to the boat. At rest, the new batteries were reading about 13.5, which I'm told is pretty normal (they'd just been run on Sunday).
Then I started up the engine (it's new, which of course means new alternator/regulator as well). I'm no wizard with a voltmeter, but measuring from the battery, the back of one of knotmeter, and a 12 volt lighter outlet, I was showing what looked to be 15 volts. I say looked to be because the meter, when set to 15v, maxes out at 15. I just don't know how far the needle actually goes to be "pinned" at 15, but it was about as close as you can get. And then my voltmeter stopped working. I didn't think those things could get fried, but...
from having run it on sunday, before it was known there was a problem, the autopilot read STLK FAIL, the knotmeter was fine, the depthsounder showing 2.4 ft all the time, the VHF blowing fuses, and the loran reading 0.000. I tried them today with the engine off. On battery the autopilot still read STLK FAIL, the depthsounder seemed to show the correct depth at the mooring, and the VHF, with a new fuse, appeared dead. The loran had power at first, but still read all 0's. I then took the fuse out to check it, checked the connections, and tried it again. Now it was dead. I don't know if it was just on life support and died or what. the power input on the back showed 10-18v, so presumably it could handle the extra power the way the Datamarine instruments could, but perhaps without a regulator there were surges going through (maybe what fried the voltmeter???)
anyway, we'll have the mechanic who installed the engine and batteries out to look at it. if the regulator was bad, YANMAR would certainly warrenty it. however, why do I doubt they'll assume any liability for any fried electronics. I can't even find a replacement Loran in the West Catalog! (it was a good GPS backup).
Brian W.
CD33
looking like voltage regulator is frying electronics
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: looking like voltage regulator is frying electronics
Brian,
Do you have an alternator with an external voltage sensing wire? If so, the mechanic who wired the batteries in might not have re-connected it. If not, the regulator would have sensed zero voltage and kept pouring out the current. If that is the case it could be the guy who wired it who did the bad job. If so, he could possibly cover up the error when he checks it. Since he might be the one who should be paying for the damaged electronics you may wish to get a third party electrician involved.
How confident are you in this volt meter? I urge people to get digital meters and check them against a known voltage. If your meter is off by 1/2 volt the numbers would make more sense. Even if your battery was overcharged on sunday it is not likely that the battery is at 13.5 volts at rest. More like 12.9 or 13. If it is reading 1/2 volt high then the actual charging voltage could be as low as 14.5 volts. This is an acceptable charging voltage for bulk/absorbtion phases.
I would recommend buying a nicer digital unit and keeping it on board.
Good luck
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
Do you have an alternator with an external voltage sensing wire? If so, the mechanic who wired the batteries in might not have re-connected it. If not, the regulator would have sensed zero voltage and kept pouring out the current. If that is the case it could be the guy who wired it who did the bad job. If so, he could possibly cover up the error when he checks it. Since he might be the one who should be paying for the damaged electronics you may wish to get a third party electrician involved.
How confident are you in this volt meter? I urge people to get digital meters and check them against a known voltage. If your meter is off by 1/2 volt the numbers would make more sense. Even if your battery was overcharged on sunday it is not likely that the battery is at 13.5 volts at rest. More like 12.9 or 13. If it is reading 1/2 volt high then the actual charging voltage could be as low as 14.5 volts. This is an acceptable charging voltage for bulk/absorbtion phases.
I would recommend buying a nicer digital unit and keeping it on board.
Good luck
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Brian W.
Re: looking like voltage regulator is frying electronics
Matt,
I'm not sure about the 'external voltage sensing wire.' The engine is a new Yanmar 3GM with a new Yanmar alternator attached to it. The new batteries were to replace our smaller group 27's that had been there.
The voltmeter was a very basic Radio Shack model. We were told in advance by the mechanic that the battery could read 13.4 if it hadn't been sitting too long. This is about in line with the meter reading. I have a digital voltmeter, but I'm quite reluctant to use it seeing as how the basic voltmeter seems to have been 'fried' by the current the boats putting out, as it suddenly stopped working. I would figure those things could take a beating, but the fact it stopped working in itself led me to believe something might be wrong.
Brian W.
I'm not sure about the 'external voltage sensing wire.' The engine is a new Yanmar 3GM with a new Yanmar alternator attached to it. The new batteries were to replace our smaller group 27's that had been there.
The voltmeter was a very basic Radio Shack model. We were told in advance by the mechanic that the battery could read 13.4 if it hadn't been sitting too long. This is about in line with the meter reading. I have a digital voltmeter, but I'm quite reluctant to use it seeing as how the basic voltmeter seems to have been 'fried' by the current the boats putting out, as it suddenly stopped working. I would figure those things could take a beating, but the fact it stopped working in itself led me to believe something might be wrong.
Brian W.
Matt Cawthorne wrote: Brian,
Do you have an alternator with an external voltage sensing wire? If so, the mechanic who wired the batteries in might not have re-connected it. If not, the regulator would have sensed zero voltage and kept pouring out the current. If that is the case it could be the guy who wired it who did the bad job. If so, he could possibly cover up the error when he checks it. Since he might be the one who should be paying for the damaged electronics you may wish to get a third party electrician involved.
How confident are you in this volt meter? I urge people to get digital meters and check them against a known voltage. If your meter is off by 1/2 volt the numbers would make more sense. Even if your battery was overcharged on sunday it is not likely that the battery is at 13.5 volts at rest. More like 12.9 or 13. If it is reading 1/2 volt high then the actual charging voltage could be as low as 14.5 volts. This is an acceptable charging voltage for bulk/absorbtion phases.
I would recommend buying a nicer digital unit and keeping it on board.
Good luck
Matt
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Mike Buppert
Re: looking like voltage regulator is frying electronics
If your Radio Shack analog meter was pegged at 15 volts on the 15 volt scale there is no way of knowing how high above 15 volts you were actually getting. You need to check the alternator output with a meter with a higher range to determine the actual output voltage. Significant overvoltage could damage a low-cost meter as well as the electronics. Just a thought.
Mike Buppert
CD-25 "Lucille"
Toms River Yacht Club
Barnegat Bay NJ
buppert@csionline.net
Mike Buppert
CD-25 "Lucille"
Toms River Yacht Club
Barnegat Bay NJ
Brian W. wrote: Matt,
I'm not sure about the 'external voltage sensing wire.' The engine is a new Yanmar 3GM with a new Yanmar alternator attached to it. The new batteries were to replace our smaller group 27's that had been there.
The voltmeter was a very basic Radio Shack model. We were told in advance by the mechanic that the battery could read 13.4 if it hadn't been sitting too long. This is about in line with the meter reading. I have a digital voltmeter, but I'm quite reluctant to use it seeing as how the basic voltmeter seems to have been 'fried' by the current the boats putting out, as it suddenly stopped working. I would figure those things could take a beating, but the fact it stopped working in itself led me to believe something might be wrong.
Brian W.
Matt Cawthorne wrote: Brian,
Do you have an alternator with an external voltage sensing wire? If so, the mechanic who wired the batteries in might not have re-connected it. If not, the regulator would have sensed zero voltage and kept pouring out the current. If that is the case it could be the guy who wired it who did the bad job. If so, he could possibly cover up the error when he checks it. Since he might be the one who should be paying for the damaged electronics you may wish to get a third party electrician involved.
How confident are you in this volt meter? I urge people to get digital meters and check them against a known voltage. If your meter is off by 1/2 volt the numbers would make more sense. Even if your battery was overcharged on sunday it is not likely that the battery is at 13.5 volts at rest. More like 12.9 or 13. If it is reading 1/2 volt high then the actual charging voltage could be as low as 14.5 volts. This is an acceptable charging voltage for bulk/absorbtion phases.
I would recommend buying a nicer digital unit and keeping it on board.
Good luck
Matt
buppert@csionline.net
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: looking like voltage regulator is frying electronics
Brian,
Most multi-meters can handle voltages well beyond what would boil your battery to destruction. The reason that the one in your boat may have been ruined is that the supply voltage that it works off of (the same one that it was measureing, a little conflict of interest in the electrical world) was high. In the case of a handheld voltmeter the supply voltage comes from batteries. You should not have any problem with a good multimeter.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
Most multi-meters can handle voltages well beyond what would boil your battery to destruction. The reason that the one in your boat may have been ruined is that the supply voltage that it works off of (the same one that it was measureing, a little conflict of interest in the electrical world) was high. In the case of a handheld voltmeter the supply voltage comes from batteries. You should not have any problem with a good multimeter.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Brian W.
Re: looking like voltage regulator is frying electronics
the voltmeter that got fried was not the boats, but a handheld RadioShack unit. Replaced batteries with several new ones, but it was still dead. It's worked fine for years so it would seem quite the coincidence if it stopped working mid-test on the boat. I pulled out my digital voltmeter and will give that a shot to see what the exact readings are. Yanmar requested the exact numbers before putting in a new alternator.
Matt Cawthorne wrote: Brian,
Most multi-meters can handle voltages well beyond what would boil your battery to destruction. The reason that the one in your boat may have been ruined is that the supply voltage that it works off of (the same one that it was measureing, a little conflict of interest in the electrical world) was high. In the case of a handheld voltmeter the supply voltage comes from batteries. You should not have any problem with a good multimeter.
Matt
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sloopjohnl
Re: looking like voltage regulator is frying electronics
check your voltmeter - many have a fuse so they don't get fried.
Brian W. wrote: the voltmeter that got fried was not the boats, but a handheld RadioShack unit. Replaced batteries with several new ones, but it was still dead. It's worked fine for years so it would seem quite the coincidence if it stopped working mid-test on the boat. I pulled out my digital voltmeter and will give that a shot to see what the exact readings are. Yanmar requested the exact numbers before putting in a new alternator.
Matt Cawthorne wrote: Brian,
Most multi-meters can handle voltages well beyond what would boil your battery to destruction. The reason that the one in your boat may have been ruined is that the supply voltage that it works off of (the same one that it was measureing, a little conflict of interest in the electrical world) was high. In the case of a handheld voltmeter the supply voltage comes from batteries. You should not have any problem with a good multimeter.
Matt
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Mark Yashinsky
dead electronics
Multiple problems, eh??? The multimeter (needle style), the meter itself (the part that moves the needle and not the whole multimeter) can be burned out or jammed (its mechanical) by overvoltage. Unless you are sure of the voltage, start at a higher range and test. If the volts shown is below the next range down, click down and try again. You dont keep the multimeter on the boat, do you??? Moisture caused corrosion and a non marine grade electronics dont mix.
Alternators need a regulator to control them. The regulator "senses" the battery voltage and decides if the battery needs to have power replaced. The regulator can be either internal (within the case of the alternator, like automotive style) and senses the battery by being directly, internally connected to the output post of the alternator. Or it can be external, where a separate, "remote" unit connects to the alternator, a "sense" (i.e. the battery) point, the idiot light(s), the tach (optional), 12v power, etc. The "sense" wire needs to sense the battery or batteries and can be complicated by multiple batteries, battery isolators/combiners, multi bank battery switches. But is gives much more flexability in designing a charging system and maintaining the health of batteries.
Sounds like you have a standard (~55amp), internally regulated alternator. If one part breaks, the whoel unit needs to be replaced (your case) or repaired. Pieces cannot be swapped out.
Do you have the electrical diagram for the boat that shows the battery, alternator, starter, and accessories??? Study it and follow the various current paths. Not that complicated, right??? Now, using that, trace it out on your boat. You should have a idea of this, in case of trouble. Good luck.
Alternators need a regulator to control them. The regulator "senses" the battery voltage and decides if the battery needs to have power replaced. The regulator can be either internal (within the case of the alternator, like automotive style) and senses the battery by being directly, internally connected to the output post of the alternator. Or it can be external, where a separate, "remote" unit connects to the alternator, a "sense" (i.e. the battery) point, the idiot light(s), the tach (optional), 12v power, etc. The "sense" wire needs to sense the battery or batteries and can be complicated by multiple batteries, battery isolators/combiners, multi bank battery switches. But is gives much more flexability in designing a charging system and maintaining the health of batteries.
Sounds like you have a standard (~55amp), internally regulated alternator. If one part breaks, the whoel unit needs to be replaced (your case) or repaired. Pieces cannot be swapped out.
Do you have the electrical diagram for the boat that shows the battery, alternator, starter, and accessories??? Study it and follow the various current paths. Not that complicated, right??? Now, using that, trace it out on your boat. You should have a idea of this, in case of trouble. Good luck.