Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
A couple days ago I decided I could make the wood strips a little thinner on the far end in an effort to make it easier to bend them over the jig steamed or not. So, I took them out of the water and laid them flat to dry for two days. Today, I ran them back through the table saw ripping them down by 1/8" on the fat end. I made them 3/8" thick on the fat end and kept them 1/4" on the skinny tapered end. Five of them. Back into the box to soak for a couple days. In a couple days I'll steam and bend and clamp over the jig. This will reduce the overall thickness of the finished tiller from 2.5" thick to about 1 7/8" thick. Still 1 1/4" on the tip of the handle.
We have had days of rain with numerous lightning strikes. The furler project is on hold till the weather improves.
We have had days of rain with numerous lightning strikes. The furler project is on hold till the weather improves.
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
After soaking for a couple days I steamed the ash strips for 40 min and bent them over the jig. Way easier to bend this time. Also very tight fitting. No gaps that I could see. I did a much better job on this second attempt. I'll leave them in the jig for a day or two. Then, let them dry a little. After that I'll glue them up and re-clamp them.
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
John,
good plan. Maybe heat them a bit to get the lignin to settle in place before gluing? Also would help with drying.
Jeff
good plan. Maybe heat them a bit to get the lignin to settle in place before gluing? Also would help with drying.
Jeff
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
Hi Jeff, what's the technique for that?jbenagh wrote:John,
good plan. Maybe heat them a bit to get the lignin to settle in place before gluing?
Jeff
Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
I just go over them with the heat gun for a few minutes after pulling them out of the steaming stack. You need to keep them mostly in shape. Then clamp back for the glue up.
I've done this for epoxy which doesn't like much moisture. Some glues like water. What glue are you using?
Jeff
I've done this for epoxy which doesn't like much moisture. Some glues like water. What glue are you using?
Jeff
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
jbenagh wrote:I just go over them with the heat gun for a few minutes after pulling them out of the steaming stack. You need to keep them mostly in shape. Then clamp back for the glue up.
I've done this for epoxy which doesn't like much moisture. Some glues like water. What glue are you using?
Jeff
Hi Jeff. Copy. I'm in the minority on this topic. I try to avoid epoxy when gluing wood if the finished project will be exposed to sunlight or saltwater. Would I use it if it were the best choice (gap filling required and I did not want purple glue lines--Aerodux resorcinol)? Yes, probably.
I'll let the laminations air dry as I plan to use CP-0503 Urea Formaldehyde adhesive. Water based. powder mixed with water. Impervious to heat so no loss of strength as the sun beats down on it. But...not waterproof which is OK since it will be varnished as before. Requires tight joints. Significant clamping pressure. But when done right the glue joints are invisible.
Below is photo of the old tiller. Five layers of white oak glued with UF glue. Glue joints between the lamination are essentially invisible. I'd like the new tiller to be similar in appearance. I think the steam-bending will be helpful in reducing some stress on the joinery. Will just have to see what happens.
Everything is a compromise.
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- Five laminations of tapered white oak glued with Urea Formaldehyde adhesive.
- B1247F5A-B7F8-45A5-BB0B-1267EB62DDBE.jpeg (4.23 MiB) Viewed 1416 times
Last edited by John Stone on Jul 14th, '22, 22:46, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
Jim,
That's a great adhesive. And not too picky about moisture levels in fact, it will tell you about the right moisture!
Good luck with the lam! Sounds like you know what you are doing and all I can add is blah blah blah
Take care,
Jeff
That's a great adhesive. And not too picky about moisture levels in fact, it will tell you about the right moisture!
Good luck with the lam! Sounds like you know what you are doing and all I can add is blah blah blah
Take care,
Jeff
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
After sitting in the jig for a couple days I unclamped the wood strips. There was a bit of spring back. No matter. I let them dry for two days. Next, I sanded the strips on both sides with 220 grit abrasive paper on a 5" random orbital sander. I wiped them down with a damp cloth and let them sit for about an hour. Then, I applied plastic sheeting and clear packing tape to the jig so the laminations would not get stuck to the jig after the glue dried. Next, I mixed up the urea formaldehyde glue by weight with a small scale I also use for mixing resorcinol. I had previously numbered the strips so I knew what order I wanted for stacking them. I applied glue with a chip brush applying an appropriate amount to both mating surfaces--five lamination strips in all. Last, I clamped the laminations tight working g from the center towards both ends.
They need to remain clamped for a minimum of 24 hours. The temp need to remain above 70°F. I'll probably leave the clamps on for 48 hours. Then, I lamp and scape the squeeze out and staring shaping the tiller.
They need to remain clamped for a minimum of 24 hours. The temp need to remain above 70°F. I'll probably leave the clamps on for 48 hours. Then, I lamp and scape the squeeze out and staring shaping the tiller.
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- Five laminations of tapered ash clamped on the jig using urea formaldehyde glue.
- 6F8C3BAC-D197-48EC-ABAE-F7497DBCE0C3.jpeg (2.8 MiB) Viewed 1392 times
- tjr818
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
Careful workmanship and good technique, I can't wait to see the finished product.
That looks like some very nice Southern Pine that gave its life for the boat.
Thanks John, I always enjoy watching your projects.
That looks like some very nice Southern Pine that gave its life for the boat.
Thanks John, I always enjoy watching your projects.
Tim
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
TJR thanks. You are correct. SYP. It's the jig I made maybe 8-9 years ago.
I took the clamps off the tiller. The joints are not as tight as they were last time. I think it might be the wood was a little wonky after soaking in water for days and then being steam bent. No matter. I'll press on and we will see how it goes. I have high expectations.
I belt sanding the hardened squeeze-out then ran the tiller through the thickness planer. Next, I drew a couple layout lines on the tiller. Last, I took the tiller over to a friends house because he has a band saw. Took about two minutes to taper the sides.
Tomorrow I'll start shaping and smoothing with a spoke shave and hand planes. I cut the profile a little different this time with the last 8" being parallel sided for a non tapered handle. It'll be fun to try something different.
I took the clamps off the tiller. The joints are not as tight as they were last time. I think it might be the wood was a little wonky after soaking in water for days and then being steam bent. No matter. I'll press on and we will see how it goes. I have high expectations.
I belt sanding the hardened squeeze-out then ran the tiller through the thickness planer. Next, I drew a couple layout lines on the tiller. Last, I took the tiller over to a friends house because he has a band saw. Took about two minutes to taper the sides.
Tomorrow I'll start shaping and smoothing with a spoke shave and hand planes. I cut the profile a little different this time with the last 8" being parallel sided for a non tapered handle. It'll be fun to try something different.
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- I removed the clamps and pulled the tiller off the jig. Obviously there was no spring back. Lots of squeeze out to remove.
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- Lots of squeeze out in this side too.
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- I cut the side tapers on a band saw.
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
This afternoon I hand planed the sides of the tiller to remove the machine marks caused by the band saw. Then I used 7-10-7 gauge I made when I built the bowsprit and sculling oar all those years ago to guide me in shaping a round handle. The 7-10-7 gauge is a tool that is used to draw layout lines for turning a four side piece of wood into a round sided shape. The new tiller is about 2.5" shorter than the old tiller.
I then used a spoke-shave to shape the end of the tiller into a round handle about 8" long. Next, I shaped the fat end of the tiller with my cabinet makers rasps to fit the tiller perfectly into the Edson tiller head. I drilled the holes for the three SS bolts and test fit the tiller head. At some point I'll replace the SS bolts with RH bronze bolts and tap the other side of the tiller head. That will be a more elegant way to secure the tiller to the tiller head. Last, I used a round-over radius bit in my laminate router to radius the four edges of the tiller to a shape I liked.
Probably tomorrow I'll take the tiller to the boat and see how it looks. Then, I will start varnishing.
I then used a spoke-shave to shape the end of the tiller into a round handle about 8" long. Next, I shaped the fat end of the tiller with my cabinet makers rasps to fit the tiller perfectly into the Edson tiller head. I drilled the holes for the three SS bolts and test fit the tiller head. At some point I'll replace the SS bolts with RH bronze bolts and tap the other side of the tiller head. That will be a more elegant way to secure the tiller to the tiller head. Last, I used a round-over radius bit in my laminate router to radius the four edges of the tiller to a shape I liked.
Probably tomorrow I'll take the tiller to the boat and see how it looks. Then, I will start varnishing.
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- All that's left to do is test fit the tiller on the boat then varnish.
- 37CF7D29-4CD0-4ACA-88AC-3C46C7B32CA3.jpeg (411.88 KiB) Viewed 1370 times
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- The new tiller is 1/2" thinner top side to bottom side at the tiller head than the old tiller.
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- Home made 7-10-7 gauge.
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
Looking good. I was only recently made aware of a 7-10-7 sparmakers gage. Ingenious device developed to save time, effort, and material.
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
Jim Walsh wrote:Looking good. I was only recently made aware of a 7-10-7 sparmakers gage. Ingenious device developed to save time, effort, and material.
Jim, the 7-10-7 gauge is definitely a handy and clever tool.
I slimmed the tiller handle just a bit more and gave it a final overall sanding with 120 grit abrasive paper. Then, I took the tiller to the boat and temporarily installed it checking the ergonomics. Even though it's only 2.5" shorter, the cockpit feels less crowded. I could probably have shortened it another 2-3". But a little extra length on the tiller can be a good thing when it comes to lashing it to leeward, hand-steering while leaning out of the companionway, or steering while standing on the cockpit seats.
I brought the tiller home and wiped it down with a lint free cloth damped with mineral spirits and let it stand for about an hour. Then I applied the first coat of Epifanes high gloss varnish thinned 50 percent with mineral spirits. I left it to dry in the shop. For all the rest of the coats I'll relocate the tiller to a dust free space.
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- The new tiller is a little thinner than the old tiller and it seems to me it looks a bit more elegant than the old tiller.
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
It took a little while but the tiller is complete. I sanded and applied a coat of Epifanes High Close Varnish just about every day till I had 8 coats of varnish. I hand sanded with a block and 220 grit between each coat which is the only way to do it if you want a fine finish. Around coat four and seven I sanding with a random orbital with 320 to keep the finish very smooth. The last sanding was by hand with 320. I don't think 320 is necessary to avoid sanding marks (220 does fine and provides better tooth for varnish exposed to the elements) but I wanted to avoid removing too much varnish with the RO sander. The joints are very tight in some places--no visible lines and visible lines in others. I suspect this was due to the soaking and steam bending which made the wood a little wonky (no longer dead flat). I don't think visible lines were due to the clamping strategy as I had a good number of clamps employed with significant pressure.
It was very interesting to try the steam bending. I can see, like most things in life, there is skill required for real precision. The important thing is how the tiller will hold up under the harsh realities of sun, rain, and temperature swings from 100°F to sub freezing.
Not a hard project. It just took some time. Overall, I am very satisfied. I may sew a leather cover for the handle to protect the varnish on the vulnerable tip.
I'll let the varnish continue to cure and harden for a few days then mount it into the bronze tiller head.
It was very interesting to try the steam bending. I can see, like most things in life, there is skill required for real precision. The important thing is how the tiller will hold up under the harsh realities of sun, rain, and temperature swings from 100°F to sub freezing.
Not a hard project. It just took some time. Overall, I am very satisfied. I may sew a leather cover for the handle to protect the varnish on the vulnerable tip.
I'll let the varnish continue to cure and harden for a few days then mount it into the bronze tiller head.
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Last edited by John Stone on Aug 3rd, '22, 18:08, edited 1 time in total.
- wikakaru
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Re: Let's Build a Laminated Tiller
Oh yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about. Nice job, John.