New Boat Inspection

[Carl Thunberg]

I'm surprised we have made it this far in this topic before anyone mentioned a survey by a qualified marine surveyor. The only thing I would add to the other posters is that Cape Dory did a lot of things right, except wiring. Their wiring seems to have been an afterthought. Both of my previous CDs had a rats nest of wiring and the wiring was glued in the area between the headliner and the coach roof. It's almost impossible to run new wires in that area.

[ghockaday]

Original diesels are at end of life and Volvo parts for these old diesels are rare.

In this size category, the original motors are Yanmars. Are those also hard to find parts for?

So as someone said, a replacement running gear would be fantastic to find and usually worth the premium you will pay.

I'm still not sure what "running gear" refers to.

So my advice is first, define your intentions. Next, define your resource constraints (time, budget, skill sets you have, access to skilled labor, schedule, personal tolerance for broken stuff, etc.).

Good advice thanks! I'd like to have an engine that could run all day for a week or more without worry, so if the engine is original it sounds like a thorough diesel inspection from a mechanic is warranted. I can fix most things, but I'm no diesel mechanic.

My reference to running gear is Engine, transmission, drive shaft and prop, my definition of lines and blocks is running rigging.

Don't know about the availability of yanmar parts for engine that old. But yes, most any diesel of 40 plus years old is getting close to done. There are probably a few exceptions.

The $10k I referenced for replacement is just the engine and trans for a Beta, (CD 30) install was quoted to me as another 10K, if you watch most marina help you will know why $10k. Its too painful to watch.

[ghockaday]

I just spoke with a Yanmar mechanic locally who was very friendly. His perspective is that sailboats in our area generally get less than 40 hours of engine runtime per year. I'd assume this would be different in a warmer climate. He said that a 1980 engine that had spent its life in our area probably has 1500 hours on it. While it may need a tune-up, it most likely has significant life left unless someone failed to replace an impeller or something major.

Interesting. Not what I expected to hear.

Freshwater boat.....maybe, Heat exchanger saltwater boat....maybe but a raw water saltwater I disagree. Make sure you know the difference. Its not the hours its the environment.

[ghockaday]

The repower will be worth more than the boat, so once you repower you need to be really in love with her and keep her for a long time. One more concern, not about the boat but I have seen a lot of post at sailnet about marinas not allowing boats older than a certain age. Also a lot of insurance companies will not insure older boats anymore. Some not all, just need to make sure you have a place to put her and are able to insure her.

[fritz3000g]

Freshwater boat.....maybe

Thanks Danielle. Yep I'll mostly be looking at freshwater boats.

Cape Dory did a lot of things right, except wiring

Good to know Carl. I'll be sure to inspect the condition of the wiring and ask about any rewiring projects that have been done.

[wikakaru]

I'm surprised we have made it this far in this topic before anyone mentioned a survey by a qualified marine surveyor. The only thing I would add to the other posters is that Cape Dory did a lot of things right, except wiring. Their wiring seems to have been an afterthought. Both of my previous CDs had a rats nest of wiring and the wiring was glued in the area between the headliner and the coach roof. It's almost impossible to run new wires in that area.

+1 on all that Carl said.

I highly recommend having a boat you intend to purchase surveyed. The less experienced you are with boats, the larger the amount of money that is involved in the transaction, and the more ambitious your sailing plans are, the more you need a survey. Of course, if the boat is being financed, the lender will require a survey so you may not have a choice. The flip side is that boats this old can be incredibly difficult to find financing and insurance for, so you may not have the choice to finance anyway.

The problem with surveys for the smaller boats in the Cape Dory range is that a survey costs a substantial percentage of the purchase price. In the past 10 years I have had 3 surveys done, all on boats 30 feet or more. The surveyors charged between $450 and $561 for their reports; haulout fees were in the $250 range. So I paid around $750 total cost for a survey in my area. It would probably be more today. If the boat costs only a few thousand dollars, many buyers will be reluctant to spend that much money on a survey. When I bought my Typhoon and my CD22, I did the "surveys" myself. For these smaller boats, the cost was low enough, my cruising plans were tame enough, and my experience was high enough that surveys didn't make sense for me.

The original poster may want to consider their experience level with boating purchases, repairs, and surveys, but my recommendation would be to strongly consider paying a professional.

The wiring comment was spot on, too. When I re-wired the mast on my CD22 I had to splice into the wires belowdecks. I was amazed to see wiring covered with a fiberglass tab so that it was completely inaccessible. On the flip side, it has worked for 40 years, so it's hard to complain.

The repower will be worth more than the boat, so once you repower you need to be really in love with her and keep her for a long time.

Yes, this is the problem with virtually all used boats, but especially those of the vintage of Cape Dories. None of us will ever recoup the money we put in, even for significant upgrades like a new engine. I have found it helpful for my own sanity to consider those kind of big purchases not as "investments" or "upgrades", but rather as "routine maintenance" items. Just say it over and over again and maybe you'll believe it: those 10 boat units you just plunked down were "routine maintenance".

Smooth sailing,

Jim

[fritz3000g]

In my experience with things boat-related, they are going to break from use, or they are going to break from lack of use.

Jim, do the things you'd look for on a boat which has sat different from those you'd look for on a boat with many engine hours?

[JD-MDR]

Screenshot 2021-12-17 at 08-35-42 The Cape Dory Board • View topic - Leoma batteries.png

I'm surprised we have made it this far in this topic before anyone mentioned a survey by a qualified marine surveyor. The only thing I would add to the other posters is that Cape Dory did a lot of things right, except wiring. Their wiring seems to have been an afterthought. Both of my previous CDs had a rats nest of wiring and the wiring was glued in the area between the headliner and the coach roof. It's almost impossible to run new wires in that area.

I just ordered a survey the quote was $600 another guy wanted $24 ft. My insurance Boat USA/Geico said if I want to go to HI and AK they require full coverage and that means a survey. The policy was pretty cheap $280 I think.
I have had good luck with my wiring. It looks awful but It's holding up .Here is a photo of the neg bus

[wikakaru]

In my experience with things boat-related, they are going to break from use, or they are going to break from lack of use.

Jim, do the things you'd look for on a boat which has sat different from those you'd look for on a boat with many engine hours?

Often when things break from non-use, it tends to be corrosion or seizing. It can happen in ways you can't see, like the aforementioned seized bolt on a water pump. For things you can see, look for bubbling paint, rust, or flaking anodizing--things that indicate that corrosion has occurred. A good telltale place to check whether an engine has been maintained is the cooling system zinc. If it is gone, chances are good the owner didn't look after other maintenance items. If you can pop off the heat exchanger and look for old parts of water pump impeller blades, that's another good indicator that if there was a problem in the past, the owner just slapped a new impeller in and didn't look for the missing blades. Most owners will probably get a bit nervous if you start unbolting things on their engine, though, especially if you don't have new seals to properly replace anything you remove. A mechanic can look at these for you if you are having a mechanical survey in addition to a hull and general survey, and an owner is likely to have less of an issue with a mechanic doing it as part of a post-offer survey/sea trial than some average Joe just kicking the tires who hasn't made an offer on the boat.

Other things to check are things that should move but may not, like winches, roller furling drums and swivels, windlass, bow roller, masthead sheaves, etc. Anything that runs on electricity should be checked. Try flipping the float switch in the bilge and see what happens. Pressure water pumps, deck washdown pumps, etc. I'm sure Don Casey's book has lots of good suggestions along these lines.

Smooth sailing,

Jim

[fritz3000g]

I'm sure Don Casey's book has lots of good suggestions along these lines.

I started a checklist based on Casey's book. I tried to attach as doc, pdf, zip, and txt and none worked. Can anyone tell me what kinds of files can be attached?

[mgphl52]

Can anyone tell me what kinds of files can be attached?

About all you do is make a document and then use something like "Snipping Tool" to make
images of each page. Also remember that only 3 images can be loaded to a single post.

[mgphl52]

Oops! I forgot that you can also build lists:

• like this
  using the
  "List" button

The above list source looks like:

Code: Select all

[list]like this
using the
"List" button[/list]

And that display was generated using the "Code" button.
There's lots of other things available including font sizing, colors, bold, italics and underlining.
However, I can't seem to find the guide for BBcode use...

[wikakaru]

Can anyone tell me what kinds of files can be attached?

About all you do is make a document and then use something like "Snipping Tool" to make
images of each page. Also remember that only 3 images can be loaded to a single post.

Or load the file onto a site like Dropbox or Google Drive, share the file via URL, and post the URL here.

--Jim

[fritz3000g]

Here's the link from google drive

For some reason it's making the bullets odd symbols, but it's readable.

Looks like the smaller Yanmar motors are seawater cooled so don't have a heat exchanger, so inspecting for impeller parts isn't on the list.

[ghockaday]

You'll find this forum helpful and get familiar using the search function. I've been using this board since 1995 and you'd be amazed at the really useful information tucked away here.

Ha! You're so right! For example, a search for "25D" in the forums gives me 586 pages of post results. Very impressive! I certainly won't run out of content to review anytime soon

perhaps factor a repower into your boat purchase budget at some point in the next few years.

Thanks Jim - great advice! I think in terms of odds, and I'm figuring 40% odds that I'd need to replace an original engine in the next 10 years. I'm planning on storing the boat at a yard with an experienced, certified Yanmar mechanic so that he can get to know the engine intimately and help me nurse it along if necessary.

Despite all the wild stuff going on in the world right now, I continue to make the assumption that the market will double ever 10-15 years on average, which it has almost always done despite a large percentage of people expecting otherwise. So delaying major repairs (at least those that aren't likely to lead to other problems) as long as tolerable will be my approach so as to keep my money invested.

My original, good running, non smoking engine was in need of replacement the first time I ran it longer than an hour. I bought it low expecting that I would replace it in 4 or 5 years. Not expecting repower to have been so much. I went back electric.