New Boat Inspection

[fritz3000g]

Hi there,

I'm starting to actually take a look at some used boats. I've ordered Don Casey's book and will be reading through it.

A few questions about how the process of choosing a mid-sized diesel CD (25-28) might be different from any boat of similar type/size/vintage.

• Are there any items you'd pay particular attention to during an inspection for a CD?
• Any tips on inspecting a CD that's on the hard for the winter and can't be sailed?
• Any mods that are especially valuable and useful on a CD in particular and should be considered in the price?
• Any CD parts where--if they're still original (meaning 40 years old)--should be cause for concern?

Thanks!

[Anthony P. Jeske]

Hi Fritz,

Corroded chain plates are the big bugaboo. A pain to replace. There's plenty here on how to repair, etc., just do a search. Next, soft decks due to moisture intrusion. Another giant job to correct.
I'm not sure about specific mods, but newer boats had more teak, and more bronze. Sailing performance between newer and older boats should be similar, so the newer boat only looks nicer. For example, early boats did not have opening ports. Later boats had the bronze opening ports, a real upgrade. However, when you opened one, water trapped at the base would dribble into your cabin. Annoying. In about 1986 (?), the bronze ports were made with two scuppers, which drained off the the water. Now you could open the port and Voila!, no dribble.
Upgraded instrumentation and upgraded running gear is a plus. To me, newer instrumentation and running gear is an indicator that the PO cared enough about the boat to make improvements, and so most likely took good care of other components too (i.e. regular engine oil change, etc.)

Good Luck,

Tony Jeske
Silvergate YC
San Diego

[fritz3000g]

Thanks Anthony!

upgraded running gear is a plus

Do you mean running rigging, like ropes and pulleys?

To me, newer instrumentation and running gear is an indicator that the PO cared enough about the boat to make improvements, and so most likely took good care of other components too (i.e. regular engine oil change, etc.)

This comment made me wonder generally about what the choices made on a boat tell you about the owner. In particular, I'm wondering about unusual combinations of mods, such as:

• A high-end autopilot but no furler on a cruising boat.
• Radar but no chartplotter or wind speed indicator.

It's always possible that someone got a good deal on something or prefers a certain look to their boat, I suppose.

[ghockaday]

Original diesels are at end of life and Volvo parts for these old diesels are rare. Replacement will be 10k plus install. So as someone said, a replacement running gear would be fantastic to find and usually worth the premium you will pay.

[tjr818]

in addition to the above, check for soft spots on deck and especially in the cockpit sole. As for the diesel, Slainte, our 1981 CD27 has the Yanmar YSM8 it cam e to us in 2010 and had only 1260 hours on it - good for another decade or two, although the 8 HP worked for us the later 27s came with a 13hp which would be much better.

[sgbernd]

Much depends on your intentions for the boat. If you wish to take the boat out for a Sunday afternoon sail, your criteria will necessarily differ from if your intention is to take the boat out for long distances and periods of weeks or months.

For example, an old OEM Volvo MD or Yanmar YSM might serve for years to come if it is used to enter and exit the harbor while would prove unsuitable if you plan to go cruising the Sea of Cortez, where it will accumulate many 100s of hours in the next few months.

I knew lake sailors (on Texoma, TX) whose boats were full of untreated blisters, wet rudders, soggy deck cores, baggy sails, etc. who didn't care and just enjoyed them for what they were. The boats weren't worth repairing, but were still serviceable. Eventually, when they no longer work or can't be sold, they will be scrapped.

So my advice is first, define your intentions. Next, define your resource constraints (time, budget, skill sets you have, access to skilled labor, schedule, personal tolerance for broken stuff, etc.). That will eliminate many of the available boats for sale and help narrow your focus.

Happy hunting,
Steve

[fritz3000g]

Original diesels are at end of life and Volvo parts for these old diesels are rare.

In this size category, the original motors are Yanmars. Are those also hard to find parts for?

So as someone said, a replacement running gear would be fantastic to find and usually worth the premium you will pay.

I'm still not sure what "running gear" refers to.

So my advice is first, define your intentions. Next, define your resource constraints (time, budget, skill sets you have, access to skilled labor, schedule, personal tolerance for broken stuff, etc.).

Good advice thanks! I'd like to have an engine that could run all day for a week or more without worry, so if the engine is original it sounds like a thorough diesel inspection from a mechanic is warranted. I can fix most things, but I'm no diesel mechanic.

[Tom Keevil]

This comment made me wonder generally about what the choices made on a boat tell you about the owner. In particular, I'm wondering about unusual combinations of mods, such as:

• A high-end autopilot but no furler on a cruising boat.
• Radar but no chartplotter or wind speed indicator.

It's always possible that someone got a good deal on something or prefers a certain look to their boat, I suppose.

Everyone uses their boat in a slightly different way, so the instrumentation will vary. For example, we have a radar because it is a useful safety feature in the foggy Pacific Northwest. We do not have a chart plotter because we enjoy the challenge of using paper charts. We carry an iPad with the latest Navionics charts that we can use if necessary, but we wouldn’t sell that with the boat. We don’t have a wind speed indicator, because we use our Windex to monitor wind direction, we make sail decisions based upon how the boat is behaving, not on predetermined wind speeds, and we note Beaufort scale numbers in our log. Actual wind speed numbers seem to be mostly used for end of the day conversations over a glass of wine. None of this indicates anything about how we care for or maintain our boat. You need to actually visit the boat to get that information.

[jfischgrund]

From the conversations on this forum about repowering, it appears that several YSM8s are nearing the end of their useful life, although most parts are still available. And repowering is more than 10K. You can guess how I know . . .

[Anthony P. Jeske]

Hi,
I meant running gear like blocks, clutches, winches, travelers, furlers, etc.

Tony Jeske

[fritz3000g]

I just spoke with a Yanmar mechanic locally who was very friendly. His perspective is that sailboats in our area generally get less than 40 hours of engine runtime per year. I'd assume this would be different in a warmer climate. He said that a 1980 engine that had spent its life in our area probably has 1500 hours on it. While it may need a tune-up, it most likely has significant life left unless someone failed to replace an impeller or something major.

Interesting. Not what I expected to hear.

[fritz3000g]

I meant running gear like blocks, clutches, winches, travelers, furlers, etc.

Thanks Tony! I'll inspect those closely.

In terms of inspecting an older engine, the mechanic I spoke with said that the two best indicators of an engine that hasn't been serviced properly is soot on the back of the boat (though this can be cleaned off) and burned paint near the impeller housing from overheating.

[Paul D.]

A Cape Dory is a very different boat than a Macgregor. CD's have much heavier hull fibreglass layup and design intentions. If you've not sailed one either, expect quite a different sailing feel.

To your original question, I would search this forum for boats the size/model you are looking for and see what comes up. It will give you a good idea of what those sailors are working on and saying about it.

Also, I would think in terms of systems of the boat - hull & Deck, rigging, sail inventory, plumbing, electrical, safety and motor/shafting/prop. Go through what is important to you in each category. Then when you get to each boat you can assess what's there and what isn't and decide what you are willing to work on.

In general, I think folks earlier covered the main ones - sound the decks especially around the sides of the cabin, foredeck and cockpit sole, Check for play in the shaft at the cutless bearing if the boat's on the hard, have the motor checked out, look for water stains on the woodwork below port lights and around the cabin sole, check for rust and fish hooks in the standing rigging and in general, stand back and look at the overall condition and try to assess how she's been maintained - good bad or indifferent.

Enjoy. You'll find this forum helpful and get familiar using the search function. I've been using this board since 1995 and you'd be amazed at the really useful information tucked away here.

Good luck,
ps. Besides the 33, the CD 27 and 28 are my favorites, but I'm biased.

[wikakaru]

I just spoke with a Yanmar mechanic locally who was very friendly. His perspective is that sailboats in our area generally get less than 40 hours of engine runtime per year. I'd assume this would be different in a warmer climate. He said that a 1980 engine that had spent its life in our area probably has 1500 hours on it. While it may need a tune-up, it most likely has significant life left unless someone failed to replace an impeller or something major.

Interesting. Not what I expected to hear.

I guess I have a different take on things than your mechanic. In my experience with things boat-related, they are going to break from use, or they are going to break from lack of use. When an engine starts getting really old and you have to do some bit of maintenance like replacing a fresh water pump, one critical bolt shearing off during the process because it hasn't been removed in 40 years can effectively total the engine if you can't find a way to drill it out and re-tap it without piercing some critical part of the engine. But this is true with any vintage boat, not just Cape Dories.

I once had a boat with a BMW Marine diesel. (BMW went out of the marine business in 1987.) We chose to replace the engine in 1999 after only 12 years of operation, not because there was anything fundamentally wrong with the engine itself, but because the bolt-on "marinized" components (for example the cooling system) were failing and replacement parts were either unavailable or hideously expensive. If I recall correctly, when our oil cooler/fresh water heat exchanger failed from electrolysis, BMW wanted $2,500 for a replacement oil cooler that would have had the same problem of 3 different metals bathed in electrolyte and which would have caused the same problem again in the future. That $2,500 in 1999 is about $4,200 in 2021 dollars. For the cost of a few bolt-on components we could buy a new Yanmar engine, and that is exactly what we did. Although Volvo is still in the marine business (unlike BMW), you may still have trouble locating parts for these old engines.

My point is, if you are thinking of purchasing any boat in its 4th decade of service that has an original engine, you should keep in the back of your mind that a re-power may be necessary at some point in the not-so-distant future unless you are a good mechanic with a knack for finding creative solutions to tricky mechanical problems.

By no means am I trying to dissuade you; I'm just suggesting that you manage your expectations, and perhaps factor a repower into your boat purchase budget at some point in the next few years.

Smooth sailing,

Jim

[fritz3000g]

You'll find this forum helpful and get familiar using the search function. I've been using this board since 1995 and you'd be amazed at the really useful information tucked away here.

Ha! You're so right! For example, a search for "25D" in the forums gives me 586 pages of post results. Very impressive! I certainly won't run out of content to review anytime soon

perhaps factor a repower into your boat purchase budget at some point in the next few years.

Thanks Jim - great advice! I think in terms of odds, and I'm figuring 40% odds that I'd need to replace an original engine in the next 10 years. I'm planning on storing the boat at a yard with an experienced, certified Yanmar mechanic so that he can get to know the engine intimately and help me nurse it along if necessary.

Despite all the wild stuff going on in the world right now, I continue to make the assumption that the market will double ever 10-15 years on average, which it has almost always done despite a large percentage of people expecting otherwise. So delaying major repairs (at least those that aren't likely to lead to other problems) as long as tolerable will be my approach so as to keep my money invested.