I am ready to ground my single side band radio and want to use copper braid from the antenna tuner to the copper foil I have grounded in the bildge area but I have not found a source for copper braid. Does anyone have any sources or ideas in the matter. The tuner is located in my starboard cockpit locker screwed to the outside deck and running the copper foil will require cutting the floor or side of the locker to access the bildge which I would like to avoid.
Thanks,
Larry Mace
CD 33 Dolce
lmace@gt.com
Sources for copper braid ground?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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jOE CIOFFI
Re: Sources for copper braid ground?
HELLO LARRY,Larry M wrote: I am ready to ground my single side band radio and want to use copper braid from the antenna tuner to the copper foil I have grounded in the bildge area but I have not found a source for copper braid. Does anyone have any sources or ideas in the matter. The tuner is located in my starboard cockpit locker screwed to the outside deck and running the copper foil will require cutting the floor or side of the locker to access the bildge which I would like to avoid.
Thanks,
Larry Mace
CD 33 Dolce
WARNING AND CAUTION DO NOT USE BRAIDED STRAP,#1 THE CORRISION FACTOR IS VERY HIGH,#2 THE SURFACE AREA IS NOT ENOUGH IT MIGHT BE HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABYC DOES NOT ALLOW US TO USE IT.I AM A CERTIFIED ABYC ELECTRIAN.IF I CAN HELP LET ME KNOW.SOMETIMES THE EXTRA WORK PAYS OFF INJ THE LONG RUN.
JOE
JGC2@PRODIGY.NET
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Larry DeMers
Re: Sources for copper braid ground?
Braided and pretinned copper wire is an excellent RF ground conductor, and should work well on your boat, as it has on hundreds of others over the years. Be certain to get a per-tinned version.
Sources would be: Nearest Ham radio shop; Newark Electronics (call their admin. office to get store nearest you..312-784-5100). The product of interest is on page 1075 in their catalog: Tinned copper flat braid. Sampled prices are; 1in. wide x 100ft. spool Type# 91235..$185/100ft. They carry other sizes up to 3in. width, but that would be $1k/100ft. and not needed.
I have privately invited another respondant to your question to explain his grave warning about "...not using tinned ground braid for complicated reasons". At this point he has not responded to my invitation for a dialogue, and would suggest you ignore his advice until he can anti up something more meaningful than he has so far. I am familiar with the ABYC as well as NEC and the NYFP codes, and don't believe there is any reason not to use this product in it's pretinned incarnation, as all marine wire must be.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
Sources would be: Nearest Ham radio shop; Newark Electronics (call their admin. office to get store nearest you..312-784-5100). The product of interest is on page 1075 in their catalog: Tinned copper flat braid. Sampled prices are; 1in. wide x 100ft. spool Type# 91235..$185/100ft. They carry other sizes up to 3in. width, but that would be $1k/100ft. and not needed.
I have privately invited another respondant to your question to explain his grave warning about "...not using tinned ground braid for complicated reasons". At this point he has not responded to my invitation for a dialogue, and would suggest you ignore his advice until he can anti up something more meaningful than he has so far. I am familiar with the ABYC as well as NEC and the NYFP codes, and don't believe there is any reason not to use this product in it's pretinned incarnation, as all marine wire must be.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Larry M wrote: I am ready to ground my single side band radio and want to use copper braid from the antenna tuner to the copper foil I have grounded in the bildge area but I have not found a source for copper braid. Does anyone have any sources or ideas in the matter. The tuner is located in my starboard cockpit locker screwed to the outside deck and running the copper foil will require cutting the floor or side of the locker to access the bildge which I would like to avoid.
Thanks,
Larry Mace
CD 33 Dolce
demers@sgi.com
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Andy Denmark
Re: Sources for copper braid ground?
Larry M.,
One inch tinned copper braided cable (flat) is available in 25 foot increments from: Cable X-Perts, Inc. at 1/800-828-3340. This is what I used in Rhiannon for the ham counterpoise, terminating the ends with #6 lugs where attached to SGC tuner, Dynaplates (2 small ones), engine block, ham rig. I crimped the terminals with a Nicopress tool and soldered them. The ground strap runs in the lowest point of the bilge.
Yes, tinned braid corrodes and turns green and the connections need to be checked and cleaned once in awhile but it works very well. The foil stuff from various marine suppliers is really too thin to work with or terminate well. If you go the flat copper route, go to a roofer or sheet metal place and get them to cut strips of 22 gauge copper. It is much cheaper than the "Marine" foil and infinitely easier to handle and especially to terminate. They can shear the copper to any width you want thus saving a lot of on-site cutting.
This is a low-impedance ground setup that seems to exhibit a low angle of radiation using the backstay as an antenna.
I find that connecting stanchions, lifelines, winches, genoa tracks, etc. makes absolutely no difference in signal strength when measured with a FSM at different frequencies, distances, and outputs. Just a lot more work for no appreciable gain. I've worked all over the world on battery power with this simple ground system and receive consistently outstanding signal reports. Rig is an ICOM 706 Mk II.
Hope this helps,
Andy Denmark
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC
trekker@coastalnet.com
One inch tinned copper braided cable (flat) is available in 25 foot increments from: Cable X-Perts, Inc. at 1/800-828-3340. This is what I used in Rhiannon for the ham counterpoise, terminating the ends with #6 lugs where attached to SGC tuner, Dynaplates (2 small ones), engine block, ham rig. I crimped the terminals with a Nicopress tool and soldered them. The ground strap runs in the lowest point of the bilge.
Yes, tinned braid corrodes and turns green and the connections need to be checked and cleaned once in awhile but it works very well. The foil stuff from various marine suppliers is really too thin to work with or terminate well. If you go the flat copper route, go to a roofer or sheet metal place and get them to cut strips of 22 gauge copper. It is much cheaper than the "Marine" foil and infinitely easier to handle and especially to terminate. They can shear the copper to any width you want thus saving a lot of on-site cutting.
This is a low-impedance ground setup that seems to exhibit a low angle of radiation using the backstay as an antenna.
I find that connecting stanchions, lifelines, winches, genoa tracks, etc. makes absolutely no difference in signal strength when measured with a FSM at different frequencies, distances, and outputs. Just a lot more work for no appreciable gain. I've worked all over the world on battery power with this simple ground system and receive consistently outstanding signal reports. Rig is an ICOM 706 Mk II.
Hope this helps,
Andy Denmark
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC
trekker@coastalnet.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: Sources for copper braid ground?
Hi Andy,
Excellent advice on not worrying about including the winches, stanchions, etc. in the couterpoise scheme. It's the capacitive coupling with water/ground through the braided cable and the direct coupling with ground thru the dynaplates and seacocks etc. at multiple locations on the counterpoise (for the various frequencies to find one water ground anyway, at a quarter wave distance for the frequencies being worked.)
73,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
Excellent advice on not worrying about including the winches, stanchions, etc. in the couterpoise scheme. It's the capacitive coupling with water/ground through the braided cable and the direct coupling with ground thru the dynaplates and seacocks etc. at multiple locations on the counterpoise (for the various frequencies to find one water ground anyway, at a quarter wave distance for the frequencies being worked.)
73,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Andy Denmark wrote: Larry M.,
One inch tinned copper braided cable (flat) is available in 25 foot increments from: Cable X-Perts, Inc. at 1/800-828-3340. This is what I used in Rhiannon for the ham counterpoise, terminating the ends with #6 lugs where attached to SGC tuner, Dynaplates (2 small ones), engine block, ham rig. I crimped the terminals with a Nicopress tool and soldered them. The ground strap runs in the lowest point of the bilge.
Yes, tinned braid corrodes and turns green and the connections need to be checked and cleaned once in awhile but it works very well. The foil stuff from various marine suppliers is really too thin to work with or terminate well. If you go the flat copper route, go to a roofer or sheet metal place and get them to cut strips of 22 gauge copper. It is much cheaper than the "Marine" foil and infinitely easier to handle and especially to terminate. They can shear the copper to any width you want thus saving a lot of on-site cutting.
This is a low-impedance ground setup that seems to exhibit a low angle of radiation using the backstay as an antenna.
I find that connecting stanchions, lifelines, winches, genoa tracks, etc. makes absolutely no difference in signal strength when measured with a FSM at different frequencies, distances, and outputs. Just a lot more work for no appreciable gain. I've worked all over the world on battery power with this simple ground system and receive consistently outstanding signal reports. Rig is an ICOM 706 Mk II.
Hope this helps,
Andy Denmark
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC
demers@sgi.com
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John R.
Re: Sources for copper braid ground?
I agree with Andy's remarks regarding the roofing copper or copper sheet from a sheet metal supplier. It is stronger than the typical marine foils, though not necessarily easier to work with. That depends on what a person is doing at a given moment while doing the work.Larry M wrote: I am ready to ground my single side band radio and want to use copper braid from the antenna tuner to the copper foil I have grounded in the bildge area but I have not found a source for copper braid. Does anyone have any sources or ideas in the matter. The tuner is located in my starboard cockpit locker screwed to the outside deck and running the copper foil will require cutting the floor or side of the locker to access the bildge which I would like to avoid.
Thanks,
Larry Mace
CD 33 Dolce
I would not advise copper braid, tinned or not tinned. It is highly susceptible to corossion. The very thin individual copper strands that make up the braid are very vulnerable especially when they begin to corrode which is inevitable unless it is well glassed, gelled or painted over.
Since you have already used foil I would continue using it and cover it with paint, gelcoat or glass like I noted above. Just use multiple layers of the foil folded and soldered together at the connection point with the antenna tuner.