Bimini height on CD36 (again?!)

[Senorjacob]

Hey all,

I know this has been discussed a lot in the past (Bimini interference with boom), but I'd like to ask a more specific question about it. I've decided to add a Bimini to Joanie and I'm trying to determine what the height should be.

My first strategy was go to go out and sail as close to the wind as possible, pulling the boom as low as I would ever have it. In that configuration the bottom of the boom is ~71" from the cockpit sole. I'm 5'6" (66"). So if I were to get a Bimini that allows me to sail close hauled without any interference, but tall enough for me, I would probably make it 70" tall. For those playing along at home that would give me 4" of clearance above my head (shoeless and wet) and 1" of clearance between the bimini and the boom.

However, there's also the argument that sailing super close-hauled with the sail pulled as flat as possible is a rare occurrence and there's also no need to have the the bimini set up and in place on every sail and on every point of sail. So therefore I could add a couple of inches to the bimini height and be fairly sure that the boom would clear it on most points of sail. Something like 73".

Then again, I read a post on here from someone who said that he feels that headroom isn't as valuable in a bimini as boom clearance because you don't stand as much as you sit in the cockpit. (There's also the fact that sailing close-hauled usually involves more heeling over and therefore you're not standing as perpendicular to the cockpit sole and therefore you have a couple more inches of headroom under the bimini.)

So I'd like to ask those that have a CD36 if you know exactly how tall your bimini's are. Any other thoughts and ideas are welcome as well. Again, I know this has been discussed so if it's a tired, well-worn subject, I apologize.

[tjr818]

I don' have a bimini, but I. have many old English sports cars, with single layer canvas convertible tops. The heat that can radiate downward off of a canvas top is incredible. I would want as much room as possible between the top of my head and the bimini. On our 27 we when we had a new main built we had the clew end raised 10" just to give us more head room and boom clearance. Raising the clew 10" only reduced the sail area by 5 sqft, and we did not have to move the gooseneck.

[Senorjacob]

That’s an excellent point. I hadn’t thought of that.

I don' have a bimini, but I. have many old English sports cars, with single layer canvas convertible tops. The heat that can radiate downward off of a canvas top is incredible. I would want as much room as possible between the top of my head and the bimini. On our 27 we when we had a new main built we had the clew end raised 10" just to give us more head room and boom clearance. Raising the clew 10" only reduced the sail area by 5 sqft, and we did not have to move the gooseneck.

[wikakaru]

That’s an excellent point. I hadn’t thought of that.

I don' have a bimini, but I. have many old English sports cars, with single layer canvas convertible tops. The heat that can radiate downward off of a canvas top is incredible. I would want as much room as possible between the top of my head and the bimini. On our 27 we when we had a new main built we had the clew end raised 10" just to give us more head room and boom clearance. Raising the clew 10" only reduced the sail area by 5 sqft, and we did not have to move the gooseneck.

I've had several boats with biminis in the tropics and never had the "sports car" heat problem. I think a closed car and an open cockpit are quite different. The important thing with a bimini is to block the sun's rays, not to insulate from it.

I'd argue the other way and give the main boom whatever room it needs. What if you have an accidental gybe with the bimini up and tear it apart with you underneath it because you made it too high? What if you foul your prop and need to beat off a lee shore and can't point properly because the bimini is in the way? I caution against compromising the sailing ability of the boat just to accommodate a bimini.

Also, make sure to check the boom height with the reefs in, too. Usually the clew of a reefed main gives a higher boom angle than the full sail, but don't assume that is the case until you have measured it.

Also, consider whether you ever plan to add solar panels up there and, if so, leave room for them, too.

You are fortunate to be 5'6". In my experience, four inches of headroom is a lot, and even two inches is a luxury. I'm 6'1", and I have found that being able to find boats/biminis/dodgers/berths etc. that "fit" is difficult until the boats are around 40 feet long.

Just my 2¢.

Smooth sailing,

Jim

[Senorjacob]

That’s an excellent point. I hadn’t thought of that.

I don' have a bimini, but I. have many old English sports cars, with single layer canvas convertible tops. The heat that can radiate downward off of a canvas top is incredible. I would want as much room as possible between the top of my head and the bimini. On our 27 we when we had a new main built we had the clew end raised 10" just to give us more head room and boom clearance. Raising the clew 10" only reduced the sail area by 5 sqft, and we did not have to move the gooseneck.

I've had several boats with biminis in the tropics and never had the "sports car" heat problem. I think a closed car and an open cockpit are quite different. The important thing with a bimini is to block the sun's rays, not to insulate from it.

I'd argue the other way and give the main boom whatever room it needs. What if you have an accidental gybe with the bimini up and tear it apart with you underneath it because you made it too high? What if you foul your prop and need to beat off a lee shore and can't point properly because the bimini is in the way? I caution against compromising the sailing ability of the boat just to accommodate a bimini.

Also, make sure to check the boom height with the reefs in, too. Usually the clew of a reefed main gives a higher boom angle than the full sail, but don't assume that is the case until you have measured it.

Also, consider whether you ever plan to add solar panels up there and, if so, leave room for them, too.

You are fortunate to be 5'6". In my experience, four inches of headroom is a lot, and even two inches is a luxury. I'm 6'1", and I have found that being able to find boats/biminis/dodgers/berths etc. that "fit" is difficult until the boats are around 40 feet long.

Just my 2¢.

Smooth sailing,

Jim

Thanks, Jim. Those are great points that I hadn't considered.

[Michael Ellis]

Jake,
The bimini on Florian is higher than the end of the boom and aft of the boom so there is no clearance issue. Consequently there is ample head room at the wheel with plenty of shade. Even with the forward edge of the bimini that far aft it restricts the view of the top of the mast from the wheel and has a window in the top of the bimini to see it. If you extend the bimini forward enough to interfere with the boom your view of the main sail will be even more blocked.

Mike

[Senorjacob]

Florian is a 36’ correct? Do you have any pics of her from the side? I’d love to see how you have the Bimini positioned and attached.

[John Stone]

I have a 36 though heavily modified. I made my boom height same as before when we built the new mast and boom. 6'1" from the aft end of the cockpit sole to the boom sounds about right.

I agree with Keith on every point he made. So I will comment along that line. But before I do I want to say I recognize that most people have a dodger and many have a bimini as well. That said-- I want to say why I don't have a dodger (yes I know you didn't ask) but it might be helpful to explain it so my comments on the bimini make more sense. Dodgers and biminis add windage going upwind and especially so at anchor. Dodger windage is not insignificant and biminis can be too, depending on how they are built etc. It leads to skittish slow speed maneuvering in windy conditions under sail and power. It can play havoc with self steering windvanes. That added windage contributes to dragging when anchored in squalls. All that canvas and tubing clutters your boat and and can get in your way. I also think most dodgers are, quite frankly, not very attractive and detract from the beauty of Alberg's boats. And that goes for biminis too. Big dodgers/biminis draw the eye away from the lines of the boat. Designing a dodger and or a bimini requires some science sure but it takes a lot of art to pull it off so that the boat retains its beauty. I admit I have seen a couple that were very nicely done so it can be done.

I would never install a bimini that could interfere with the boom when the boom is at 90° to the mast. Never. You need to be able to tack, gybe, reef, drop the main in a hurry and never have to worry about interference with the boom. It’s advantageous to be able to stand up on the cockpit seats and have a clear view.

It seems many sailors are quick to sacrifice the sailing performance of their boats. CDs sometimes have a reputation for being slow. Not true when well laid out and well handled. Poor performance occurs when the boats are poorly handled, have lousy sails, and then compromised by their owners to replicate the comforts of home based on how they observe people living on 50' boats. I have been on many boats the size of my 36 where you can't see the sails. You can't see the masthead wind indicator. You can't stand up on the cockpit seats with your binos and scan the horizon for cats paws of wind or ships and other craft that you need to be aware of.

If you have not done so already, I recommend you take some time and look at as many pictures as you can of dodgers and biminis on boats like Cape Dorys (low, lean, with long over hangs). Then, Xerox the profile drawing of the CD 36 from the owners manual and sketch in several dodger/Bimini designs and see what looks good to you. If you hire someone to make the dodger/bimini then ask them what makes a beautiful set up that does not detract from the boat and see what he or she says. Look at pictures of their work. But I assure you if you make it a priority with a canvas shop to make a tall bimini he will probably give you what you want and it will not be lovely to look at. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder….

I make these comments not to say what you should do but to offer some things for you to consider because you asked. Your boat, your money, your way.

Would I ever have a dodger or a bimini? Sure. Maybe even a hard dodger. But maximum height would never be a consideration even if it was listed as the lowest priority on my list.

Having said all that I am currently redesigning a “removable” sunshade I often use on the Far Reach. Maybe something like it could work for you too. The current one is a small square piece of canvas. It does it’s job pretty well but I am going to improve on it so it will work better at providing shade and rain collection. I can sail with my sun shade though it's tricky because of the bridge deck mounted traveler. It takes about 10 seconds or less to release the forward lines. It’s quite easy to remove and put away and equally easy to string it up.

I attached a photo of what I use now.

[Senorjacob]

Thanks, John. I admire you and what you’ve done with the Far Reach. You obviously have learned a lot about your boat and what she needs and you seem very in sync with her. I think your advice is exactly right. I have looked at a lot of pictures and I’ve seen what I DON’T want and I’ve decided on what I do want. I don’t want the Bimini to interfere with the boom at all. I also don’t feel like I will want to sail with the Bimini up all the time. But when my wife and kids are onboard and we’re in the zephyrs and the sun is beating down on us, we do need some protection.

I talked to my canvas guy today and we made a plan. And if I don’t like the Bimini for whatever reason, I reserve the right to take it off and forget about it. (Or sell it to another CD36 owner).

[Michael Ellis]

Jacob,
Here is the Florian bimini. The dodger and bimini were designed and built by Iverson.

Mike

[John Stone]

Thanks, John. I admire you and what you’ve done with the Far Reach. You obviously have learned a lot about your boat and what she needs and you seem very in sync with her. I think your advice is exactly right. I have looked at a lot of pictures and I’ve seen what I DON’T want and I’ve decided on what I do want. I don’t want the Bimini to interfere with the boom at all. I also don’t feel like I will want to sail with the Bimini up all the time. But when my wife and kids are onboard and we’re in the zephyrs and the sun is beating down on us, we do need some protection.

I talked to my canvas guy today and we made a plan. And if I don’t like the Bimini for whatever reason, I reserve the right to take it off and forget about it. (Or sell it to another CD36 owner).

Sounds like you know what you want and you have a plan that will get you there. Hard to ask for more than that. I'd be interested to see what you come up with.

[Matt Cawthorne]

Comfortable headroom makes life aboard so much more pleasant. With my bimini, I requested the height be my height + about 4 inches so that I could see over the dodger and not have a perpetual stiff neck. I then re-cut the foot of the sail so that the boom clears the bimini when the sail is fully sheeted in. A bonus with this method is that an accidental jibe is much less likely to hit you in the head even when the bimini is stowed away. My 36 with the rig as it was when I bought it already had too much weather helm. The loss of a little mainsail at the foot was not an issue. As it was I ended up raking the mast forward several inches to relieve even more of the weather helm. The biggest downside that I have noticed with the bimini is interference with the self steering unit when close hauled. I keep thinking of raising the wind vane up a foot or two to eliminate this problem, but this is not enough of an issue to bring it up on the priority list.