Does Teak Bend?

[Joel Bondy]

I need to replace the toe rails and rub strakes on my Ty. The originals were made from 3/4" teak that was bent to match the curve of the hull. If I purchase straight teak, will I be able to install and bend the wood as I screw it to the deck? Or is there a special process I'll need to employ?

Thanks,

Joel
"Pokey II"
'73 Typhoon Weekender
Bayside, NY



bondy_joel@hotmail.com

[Larry DeMers]

Sure. There are several ways to do this, depending on the curves' radius, material thickness, and material layup. For the rub rail size material and curvature, two ways come to mind; steam bending and lamination. Another less desireable, but possible process would be cutting in a ferf every 1/4 in. or so over the curvature area, then gradually placing the bend to the material as you screw the piece down.
Steam bending is kinda envolved for a single piece of work like this, but if you can see a good enough reason to carry on, let me know, and I'll pass on how to make a bender out of a hot water heater tank, and separated burner..it's cheap, messy and fun.

You will need to make a pattern board for either bending process. This board will incorporate the drawn outline of the horizontal bend desired. Blocks of wood are placed at a convenient interval..like 12 in. for a gradual bend.or 4 in. for deep bends. Arrange the blocks opposite each other, or slightly stagger the blocks, with the spacing to fit the teak rail material cut to dimension.

FOR LAMINATE BENDING:
Coat the work area with a wax paper to prevent the teak from sticking to the work.
Lay in your first laminate course, and follow the drawn outline through the bend, gently. Use trianglular shaped wood blocks to force the laminate to the outside of the drawn outlines curve. Coat the next course with adhesive, and lay it into the blocks on the board. Once down, start pulling out one triangular block at a time and pushing the new laminate layer into the first laminate layer, and then jamming it in place with the triangular wood blocks..and continue to the next station and repeat.
Once done, let cure, then remove from pattern board. Sand and shape to the final version plus enough to scarf into the existing railing. Now here is where workmanship counts. Measure a dozen times, think it out carefully, then do it. Capr Dory uses a stepped scarf, which is neat and effective. Try to copy that as a guide. It is something that cannot be taught really. I suggest that a very thin kerf Japanese pull saw would work well here, along with a way to lock in your angles in reference to the boat. I cut a few experimental pieces first, then did the angle on the boat. Then I experimented again trying to match the now cut piece on the boat. Finally, after the angle needed is learned, you transfer that angle to the teak and cut away. The other end would be convenent if it were at the transom, because then you just have to amtch the angle of the corner. However, I had to scarf into the second piece on mine. I cut the teak way long and snuck up on the angle with repeated cuts, until I was 1/4 in/ long and prefectly parallel with all angles. Then you take the last cuts, and match it in place, with a bit of block sanding onthe flat surfaces to create a tight fit.
My experience was what I would grade a B-. I have two wide of a space in one of the scarfs, although it is very parallel. I could of laid off that final sanding and it would have been fine. The woods color is off a tad from the rest too, but we are taking care of that this spring with our recetoling project.

Hope this of help..

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I need to replace the toe rails and rub strakes on my Ty. The originals were made from 3/4" teak that was bent to match the curve of the hull. If I purchase straight teak, will I be able to install and bend the wood as I screw it to the deck? Or is there a special process I'll need to employ?

Thanks,

Joel
"Pokey II"
'73 Typhoon Weekender
Bayside, NY

demers@sgi.com

[Hobby Marine]

Joel:

I am in the process of replacing the same on a TY I am rebuilding. I am making the new rails and will predrill them and counter sink for the plugs. Then I will install them one screw at a time. You should have no trouble making this bend. Be sure to bed the teak good. I will start at the front of the boat and work my way back.

Good luck. If I can answer any additional questions please contact me.

Glen Snader



info@hobbymarine.com

[Joel Bondy]

The original rails weren't laminated. They may have been steamed, though. I'm inclined to try the bending as they're installed approach, but with the cost of teak...

Has anyone tried mahogany? How does that wear compared to teak? Can it be left to wear unfinished like teak?



bondy_joel@hotmail.com

[Russ Campbell]

I have replaced sections of the rub rail on my CD 28 that were damaged in a storm. I clamped one end of the rub rail and then using long 2X4's clamped it into place long enough to drill holes and screw in the screws. The 2X4's are placed under or alongside the hull. They are secured at the ground end by blocking them against cement blocks or some such thing and then are pulled up to the hull and clamped onto anything you can find. You are basically just making a big lever. This holds the rub rail in place long enough for you to drill the holes and screw the screws. You may need to scarf it if the bend is too great. Hope this helps

Russ

I need to replace the toe rails and rub strakes on my Ty. The originals were made from 3/4" teak that was bent to match the curve of the hull. If I purchase straight teak, will I be able to install and bend the wood as I screw it to the deck? Or is there a special process I'll need to employ?

Thanks,

Joel
"Pokey II"
'73 Typhoon Weekender
Bayside, NY

russ@claybycampbell.com

[Robert M Paterson]

The original rails weren't laminated. They may have been steamed, though. I'm inclined to try the bending as they're installed approach, but with the cost of teak...

Has anyone tried mahogany? How does that wear compared to teak? Can it be left to wear unfinished like teak?

I have replaced both toe rails and rub rails in mahogany that were original to my 69 Ty during a total restoration. Only due to some damage and 30 years of sanding,there was no rot. Mahogany can be purchased in lths that will iliminate any scarfing,(20-24ft)and is easly worked from bow to stern.Counter sink all screw holes on the rails to be affixed to the hull ,start from the bow pulling into the curve with the screws as you work to the aft end. An other person to hold the rails to the curve while doing this is helpfull(In my case i solicated the help of my better half) I did all rub rails and toe rails for around a cost of $150, this included ripped to approx dimentions that I later run through my finished table saw at home. Plug the holes, finish sand, and when varnished has a beautiful finish.
Mahogany if maintained,varnished, or oiled, will give many years of service.And at approx a third of the cost of teak how can you go wrong?
Hope this helps. BOB



Wskyr3d@aol.com

[Geezer]

If you have never done this kind of work you may not know about the plugs used to conceal the countersunk screws. These are not pieces of dowel with lengthwise grain, but are cut with a special drill-like tool from scrap of the same wood they are to be used with. When they are inserted in the hole (with glue) the grain is lined up. They will stick up out of the hole. When the glue is set, use a chisel turned over so the bevel is on the bottom. Gently cut the plug well above the surface to determine which way the grain slopes, then cut from the low side. This avoids having the plug break off below the surface. Finally, sand flush. Plugs will be almost invisible.

[Joel Bondy]

Did you make plugs as Geezer suggests above? I expect these would be more necessary for the toe rail that the rub strake since the screws would be facing up. A fellow who did the same to a Lightning told me he used mahogany and countersunk so that the rounded head of the screw barely stuck up from the surface of the rail and that this worked out fine.

I have replaced sections of the rub rail on my CD 28 that were damaged in a storm. I clamped one end of the rub rail and then using long 2X4's clamped it into place long enough to drill holes and screw in the screws. The 2X4's are placed under or alongside the hull. They are secured at the ground end by blocking them against cement blocks or some such thing and then are pulled up to the hull and clamped onto anything you can find. You are basically just making a big lever. This holds the rub rail in place long enough for you to drill the holes and screw the screws. You may need to scarf it if the bend is too great. Hope this helps

Russ

I need to replace the toe rails and rub strakes on my Ty. The originals were made from 3/4" teak that was bent to match the curve of the hull. If I purchase straight teak, will I be able to install and bend the wood as I screw it to the deck? Or is there a special process I'll need to employ?

Thanks,

Joel
"Pokey II"
'73 Typhoon Weekender
Bayside, NY

bondy_joel@hotmail.com

[Don Craig]

Just curious. What bedding type do you recommend for teak to fiberglass, such as with rails: Dolphinite, polysulfide, polyurethane? (I know 5200 is a no-no). I'm looking for the longest-lasting sealant.
Thanks.

Joel:

I am in the process of replacing the same on a TY I am rebuilding. I am making the new rails and will predrill them and counter sink for the plugs. Then I will install them one screw at a time. You should have no trouble making this bend. Be sure to bed the teak good. I will start at the front of the boat and work my way back.

Good luck. If I can answer any additional questions please contact me.

Glen Snader

[Don Craig]

I replaced some rails on a 28 several years ago, and the teak bent fine with a little muscle and some clamps. Longer pieces, pre-drilled, are easier because of the leverage. You shouldn't have to worry about breakage with teak in these sizes.

Sure. There are several ways to do this, depending on the curves' radius, material thickness, and material layup. For the rub rail size material and curvature, two ways come to mind; steam bending and lamination. Another less desireable, but possible process would be cutting in a ferf every 1/4 in. or so over the curvature area, then gradually placing the bend to the material as you screw the piece down.
Steam bending is kinda envolved for a single piece of work like this, but if you can see a good enough reason to carry on, let me know, and I'll pass on how to make a bender out of a hot water heater tank, and separated burner..it's cheap, messy and fun.

You will need to make a pattern board for either bending process. This board will incorporate the drawn outline of the horizontal bend desired. Blocks of wood are placed at a convenient interval..like 12 in. for a gradual bend.or 4 in. for deep bends. Arrange the blocks opposite each other, or slightly stagger the blocks, with the spacing to fit the teak rail material cut to dimension.

FOR LAMINATE BENDING:
Coat the work area with a wax paper to prevent the teak from sticking to the work.
Lay in your first laminate course, and follow the drawn outline through the bend, gently. Use trianglular shaped wood blocks to force the laminate to the outside of the drawn outlines curve. Coat the next course with adhesive, and lay it into the blocks on the board. Once down, start pulling out one triangular block at a time and pushing the new laminate layer into the first laminate layer, and then jamming it in place with the triangular wood blocks..and continue to the next station and repeat.
Once done, let cure, then remove from pattern board. Sand and shape to the final version plus enough to scarf into the existing railing. Now here is where workmanship counts. Measure a dozen times, think it out carefully, then do it. Capr Dory uses a stepped scarf, which is neat and effective. Try to copy that as a guide. It is something that cannot be taught really. I suggest that a very thin kerf Japanese pull saw would work well here, along with a way to lock in your angles in reference to the boat. I cut a few experimental pieces first, then did the angle on the boat. Then I experimented again trying to match the now cut piece on the boat. Finally, after the angle needed is learned, you transfer that angle to the teak and cut away. The other end would be convenent if it were at the transom, because then you just have to amtch the angle of the corner. However, I had to scarf into the second piece on mine. I cut the teak way long and snuck up on the angle with repeated cuts, until I was 1/4 in/ long and prefectly parallel with all angles. Then you take the last cuts, and match it in place, with a bit of block sanding onthe flat surfaces to create a tight fit.
My experience was what I would grade a B-. I have two wide of a space in one of the scarfs, although it is very parallel. I could of laid off that final sanding and it would have been fine. The woods color is off a tad from the rest too, but we are taking care of that this spring with our recetoling project.

Hope this of help..

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I need to replace the toe rails and rub strakes on my Ty. The originals were made from 3/4" teak that was bent to match the curve of the hull. If I purchase straight teak, will I be able to install and bend the wood as I screw it to the deck? Or is there a special I reprocess I'll need to employ?

Thanks,

Joel
"Pokey II"
'73 Typhoon Weekender
Bayside, NY

[Russ Campbell]

Yes, This is really the only way to do it right. You can buy the tool and make your own plugs or places like West Marine and BoatUS seel packages of plugs. A bit of warning about this don't use a 1/2" drill bit and expect the plug to fit. You need to use a special bit called a Forrister bit ( or something like that ) This cuts a very neat hole that the plug fits in precisely. The trick is to drill the holes in the board with the Forrister bit . You only go about halfway through the board. Then when you have held the board in place you drill inside these holes and through to the hull and screw in the screws. Being careful not to crack the board by tightening too much. I also bedded everything with 5200. Then when everything is set up and dry you put the plugs in exactly like Geezer said. Good Luck

Russ

Did you make plugs as Geezer suggests above? I expect these would be more necessary for the toe rail that the rub strake since the screws would be facing up. A fellow who did the same to a Lightning told me he used mahogany and countersunk so that the rounded head of the screw barely stuck up from the surface of the rail and that this worked out fine.

I have replaced sections of the rub rail on my CD 28 that were damaged in a storm. I clamped one end of the rub rail and then using long 2X4's clamped it into place long enough to drill holes and screw in the screws. The 2X4's are placed under or alongside the hull. They are secured at the ground end by blocking them against cement blocks or some such thing and then are pulled up to the hull and clamped onto anything you can find. You are basically just making a big lever. This holds the rub rail in place long enough for you to drill the holes and screw the screws. You may need to scarf it if the bend is too great. Hope this helps

Russ

I need to replace the toe rails and rub strakes on my Ty. The originals were made from 3/4" teak that was bent to match the curve of the hull. If I purchase straight teak, will I be able to install and bend the wood as I screw it to the deck? Or is there a special process I'll need to employ?

Thanks,

Joel
"Pokey II"
'73 Typhoon Weekender
Bayside, NY

russ@claybycampbell.com

[Don Craig]

with taper point drills, and plug cutters for making the plugs yourself. All made by Fuller and available from Jamestown Distributors at www.jamestowndistributors.com or (800) 423-0030--excellent resource for tools, fasteners, boat building and maintenance supplies. The two correct plug sizes are 3/8 and 1/2...the smaller being sufficient for all but heavy duty fastening jobs. The drill/countersink combination cuts the plug hole and tapered screw hole (# 6, 8, 10, 12, and 14) in the same operation. By the way, 5200 should be used ONLY for sealing applications that will NEVER be disassembled, like hull/deck joints. Trim pieces fastened with 5200 usually have to be destroyed to get them off.

[John S.]

Joel and others,

There is a process to bend wood that is fairly straight forward. Purchase a section of guttering and two end caps. Seal the caps fill it with ammonia (check a woodworking site to confirm)and soak the wood strips for 24 hours. The wood becomes very plyable and will willingly form within reason. Bending perpendicular to the grain will be more difficult. Good luck.



jschanafelt@interconnect.com

[Kurt B. Kaiser]

First, 3M has a fairly new product, Fast Cure Adhesive/Sealant 4200, which, according to 3M, is half the strength of 5200, "which allows for disassembly of parts"

http://www.3m.com/marine/images/Marine_1999_3.pdf

Second, last summer Duncan Maio (mail@mysticmarine.net) was making runs of Typhoon toerail and rubrail. You might see if he still has some, it would save you time.

Third, if you want a steam box, duct tape some lengths of styrofoam together and set up a hot plate and tea kettle. Lead some pipe insulation hose between the tea kettle and the styrofoam box. Put in your teak, stuff some rags in the ends, and boil away for a couple of hours. Plastic pipe works, too, but not as well because it doesn't hold the heat.



kbk@shore.net

[Joel]

Thanks, all, for the advice.

I purchased 1x3 teak boards at a local lumber yard ($3.39 a foot), ripped them down to 1x1, eased the corners, routed rain drain holes for the toe rails and mounted as folks have recommended below. They bent easily, and she sure looks sharp!

Joel
Pokey II
'73 Typhoon #549

I need to replace the toe rails and rub strakes on my Ty. The originals were made from 3/4" teak that was bent to match the curve of the hull. If I purchase straight teak, will I be able to install and bend the wood as I screw it to the deck? Or is there a special process I'll need to employ?

Thanks,

Joel
"Pokey II"
'73 Typhoon Weekender
Bayside, NY

Bondy_Joel@hotmail.com