Seeking LED Conversion Input

[John Stone]

Hi All
As part of the engine install I plan to install LED nav lights. After much research I decided on brass/bronze Victory Lights made in Italy. Very nice lights. They match well with the style of the Far Reach. I liked the Signal Mate lights and researched them extensively but the style was wrong and there were mounting challenges I wanted to avoid.

Anyway, I want to convert the lights to LED. Red, green, white stern. All separate lights. I contacted Dr LED. Very helpful. They have the bulb I need—called a Festoon Star 39 mm. They recommended red Led for port and green for starboard. The lights came with white bulbs. If I went with white bulbs I could carry a spare which would fit in any of the three lights. But if I use colored LEDs then my spare plan is not so good. These are $40 each!!!

Just wondering why they recommend the colored LEDs in lights with colored lenses. Thought maybe the CD Brain Trust has insight on this issue.

I have asked for clarification from Dr LED but so far have not heard back.

[Sea Hunt Video]

First it was an electronic depth sounder. Now you want to install LED nav lights. This idea of re-installing an engine on what was a beautiful and simple sailing vessel is now getting out of hand. Before long you will be posting a thread asking for recommendations on installing a clothes washer and dryer.

[John Stone]

First it was an electronic depth sounder. Now you want to install LED nav lights. This idea of re-installing an engine on what was a beautiful and simple sailing vessel is now getting out of hand. Before long you will be posting a thread asking for recommendations on installing a clothes washer and dryer.

Exactly! Got any info on how to install a big screen TV and a hot tub? Now that is some info I could really use....

[Ben Miller]

Just wondering why they recommend the colored LEDs in lights with colored lenses.

I would make sense from an efficiency point of view. If you're running a white LED behind a colored lens then you're filtering out (wasting) a certain portion of the bulb's output. With a colored bulb that matches the lens, more of the output would pass through, so you could potentially get the same amount of light from less electricity. I'm not sure how much of a real-world difference we're talking about though.

[Keith]

John,

Perhaps just go with the colored less for port and starboard and white for stern/running lights and use white for the spare(s). With life expectancy of the led being longer then yours you will most likely never have to put a white bulb behind a colored lens.

Food for thought,

Keith

[Walter Hobbs]

I just got a white festoon for my combo red/green on my bow pulpit. I'd have to check but got it from Hamilton and I know it was NOT 40 bucks.

[Jim Walsh]

Not an answer to your question but this was my logic in choosing approved (COLREG, USCG, ABYC, etc.) LED navigation lights. Their whole purpose is to comply with regulations or we, some of us, couldn’t be bothered having them...plus they might just save our lives. It is my understanding that a fixture is given approval based on its original (as tested) configuration, once it is modified it is no longer in compliance.
My working career was composed of strict adherence to regulations, laws, and procedures so I’m pre- disposed to a certain sensitivity in such matters.
Just to put things in perspective when I’m singlehanding it is impossible for me to comply with COLREGS Rule 5 concerning keeping watch. We must all choose our battles.

[Frenchy]

Another thought is that you could keep the deck nav lights incandescent. You would use them
mostly under power- so no need for LED. Then, you could mount a LED tri-color at the masthead
for sailing at night. That's what I did. - Jean

[John Stone]

Not an answer to your question but this was my logic in choosing approved (COLREG, USCG, ABYC, etc.) LED navigation lights. Their whole purpose is to comply with regulations or we, some of us, couldn’t be bothered having them...plus they might just save our lives. It is my understanding that a fixture is given approval based on its original (as tested) configuration, once it is modified it is no longer in compliance.
My working career was composed of strict adherence to regulations, laws, and procedures so I’m pre- disposed to a certain sensitivity in such matters.
Just to put things in perspective when I’m singlehanding it is impossible for me to comply with COLREGS Rule 5 concerning keeping watch. We must all choose our battles.

I don’t think the USCG actually tests equipment do they? My understanding is they create standards and industry builds to those standards and then certifies their products meets the standard and thus are in compliance. That’s how I “think” it works. Just because you modify a product doesn't mean it is not in compliance. It might exceed the standard. But it probably means the company that made the product is not liable if you altered it and it fails compliance. There is nothing that says you can’t make your own lights from scratch if they are in compliance. I have read the standards and test criteria. I’m not smart enough to know how to test for compliance—it seemed complicated. There are probably some legalities there I don’t understand. Nonetheless, I care not a whit that I have modified something unless I have made it worse or less capable. I don’t think that’s the case.

Tonight I heard back from Jim at Dr LED. I sort of understand his explanation. He said the white LED is actually blue green and some of the light is absorbed by the lenses. Using a red or green LED, as the case may be, permits more light to penetrate the colored lens and thus the light viewed is brighter and more visible. I expect the science is more complicated but that’s what I understood from our conversation. He says the bulb he recommended will easily exceed the 2nm standard. He also said when you use a white light in a colored lens it takes a 25 watt incandescent to match the performance of a 10 watt white bull in a clear lens. Something like that. So I now have a better understanding of the rational for his recommendation to use colored LEDs in the colored lenses.

Bottom line, modifying the incandescent Nav lights with LED bulbs, provided they are the right bulbs, can enhance their performance.

A side note—practical sailor recently published a notice that the USCG reports a number of nav lights don’t meet the angle of heel standard for sailboats. Apparently there is in fact two different kinds of nav light standards and manufactures are supposed to state if their lights meet the requirement for sailboats. Interesting. DR LED told me the festoon bulb he recommended has a 25° arc of vertical light which exceeds the standard.

Also, I recall reading in practical sailor a report the USCG released that many LEDs interfere with VHF transmissions (some well known lights were dramatically affected) and they recommend boat owners check to make sure their radios are not adversely affected. Several LED manufacturers to include Aplineglow and Dr LED tested well by PS regarding said RF interference. That’s why I didn’t want to use a random LED. Jim told me the bulb he recommended “produced zero RF emissions.”

So, that is what I learned. I can’t test to any of these standards. I am taking Dr LED and PS at their word but at this point I feel like I have done due diligence.

Once again I have to wonder if I have not stupidly made the Far Reach more vulnerable by adding increased and unnecessary complexity. I had few problems with my kero lights and I am confident they met the USCG 2 NM standard because I had commercial ships tell me they could see them at those distances offshore. Welcome to the 20th century John....

[John Stone]

Another thought is that you could keep the deck nav lights incandescent. You would use them
mostly under power- so no need for LED. Then, you could mount a LED tri-color at the masthead
for sailing at night. That's what I did. - Jean

Ha! I am reluctantly converting from oil to LED nav lights and you can bet the last thing I want to do is run wire inside the mast of my boat. Seriously, we need to slow the train here a bit. I’m adding an engine, LED nav lights, and probably an electronic depth sounder. I think I’ve gone about as far as I can go at this point. I’d like to stick with my simple 8 breaker distribution panel. I have four breakers in use and one of those is for the compass light!

[John Stone]

I just got a white festoon for my combo red/green on my bow pulpit. I'd have to check but got it from Hamilton and I know it was NOT 40 bucks.

Walter, what brand LED? Apparently a number of LEDs have RF emissions that interfere with VHF radio frequencies. PS testing reflects Dr LED and Aplineglow lights, among a few others, do not. I would prefer to spend less on LEDs if they meet the standards and are well made.

[John Stone]

John,

Perhaps just go with the colored less for port and starboard and white for stern/running lights and use white for the spare(s). With life expectancy of the led being longer then yours you will most likely never have to put a white bulb behind a colored lens.

Food for thought,

Keith

Hi Keith
Thanks for the input. That is my thinking too. I discussed this approach with Dr LED on the phone this evening. His comment was that the white may not be bright enough in the colored lens to be certain of meeting the 2nm range but for an emergency it would make sense to carry a single white light for all three lights. And, if the light remains water tight I should have no issues as the LED has a long life under normal circumstances.

[Paul D.]

I replaced my nav light bulbs with Dr. LED festoons a number of years ago and they have worked very well. I used white bulbs as I have a bi color fixture forward. I would just get the LEDs you need for the nav replacement bulbs and use the incandescent bulbs as the spares. I am a big fan of LEDs, at least the ones by Dr. LED and Sensibulb. They give off the same amount or more light at 1/15th the amp hours.

Do test for RF interference and also FM radio interference. And I'd also check the colour temperature. 3,000Kelvin is a warm white, great for our teak interiors. Higher, like 4,000K and you start getting into the 'cool' or blueish light colours. I don't think that matters for nav lights but I'm not sure.

Good luck John. Sensible updates to our boats are fine. I think successful sailors keep a line of sight reality of the environments they may face and that includes factors outside weather, like increased shipping, time schedules that are tighter, and more precise navigation and more frequent communications expectations. Oh well, just keep those kero lights!

[Craig Curtis]

I just purchased this replacement LED bulb for my Aqua Signal Series 41 bi-color bow light through marinebeam. They explain how the colored LEDs transmit more efficiently through a colored lens than a white LED. For a really detailed explanation click through to the embedded link on this page that refers to their white paper on the subject. (Note as well that they also have a comment regarding the Coast Guard standards.)

https://store.marinebeam.com/aqua-signa ... ment-bulb/

Best Regards,

Craig

[John Stone]

I just purchased this replacement LED bulb for my Aqua Signal Series 41 bi-color bow light through marinebeam. They explain how the colored LEDs transmit more efficiently through a colored lens than a white LED. For a really detailed explanation click through to the embedded link on this page that refers to their white paper on the subject. (Note as well that they also have a comment regarding the Coast Guard standards.)

https://store.marinebeam.com/aqua-signa ... ment-bulb/

Best Regards,

Craig

Craig. Thanks very much. That’s great info. It supports what DR LED related to me as well regarding the advantages of using colored LEDs in nav lights. I wonder about RF emission. Have you noticed any?