handling the over-canvassed boat

[Megunticook]

Had a terrific sail yesterday on Penobscot Bay, light breeze with no change in forecast so hanked on my biggest foresail. Was great but the last 45 minutes or so the wind started gusting to 10 knots and at times it felt like we were over-canvassed--heeling 20 or 25 degrees or so during the gusts while sailing close-hauled.

Thought about changing sails but we were almost home and were making great speed (6+ knots), plus in the building chop the bow would've been pitching up and down quite a bit during the sail switch, which isn't a lot of fun. So I just rode it out, spilling a little wind from the main when we started heeling too much. If the wind had picked up any more I definitely would've taken that big sail down.

But in any case it was an interesting experience learning how to handle the boat with a little too much sail up. I found easing the sheets a bit helped her stand up straighter and keep her footing, and as I mentioned we were moving about as fast as she'll go.

Just curious what others on the board do in that situation. I'll admit part of the context was my wife was aboard and doesn't enjoy heeling much beyond 10 or 15 degrees, so I was trying to keep her comfortable. But I also don't enjoy "burying the rail" and find it slows the boat down.

I can definitely understand why people like roller furling!

All in all, though, it was a spectacular day on the bay and the boat handled like a dream, as always. We hand a pretty good chop slapping into our port bow quarter and she just cut right through it (although we did get a little wet!).

We're lucky to sail these boats.

[s2sailorlis]

My 22 probably sails somewhat similar, though yours is a fractional rig. In 10 knots steady with gusts to say 13-15, you’ll hit 20-25 of heel. Just sitting on the leeward side of our boats will of course induce heel.

Best to reef, not reduce headsail area. As things pipe up the boat will give you a lot of weather helm. A few weeks back, with my wonkily reefed main due to poor sailmaker skills, I had full 130 Jenny and single reef. It was probably 12, gusting to 15ish at times. I was singlehanded. The boat handled great. Rail was never in the water, I was heeled about 20ish or just above. It felt great.

Also, use your traveler and let it go to leeward. This reduces heal. Also, if you can on a beat, pinch up into wind as this too reduces heel.

When my wife was with me last October, a 5-10 knot day quickly turned to 12-14 gusting close to 20(This data came from a local weather station) The gusts close to 20 we’re far and few between, but when it hit the rail was buried and the port deck was awash in water. When it subsided a bunch of water can flowing in from the deck into the cockpit seats, wearing sweatpants...um we got wet.... The wave height 3 feet so it was a somewhat wet ride at times. I never felt concerned as I could feel the boat stiffen up. After coming in I realized one of the sail slugs broke off...

The biggest hassle was coming in via power, it was a wet ride with the waves!

I’ve had 2 other boats before, a Tanzer 22 and an S2 27. Both were fin keel design of course, with the S2 having a very efficient NACA designed keel and rudder. Both these boats had a fair amount of form stability, eg a flatter hull buttom vs our Cape Dory. Heeling is the nature of the hull design. Quick to heel, then gravity takes over to stiffen things out just as you lose lift when heeling.

On a flatter bottom boat when your rail is on the water...you’re losing a lot of that form stability...

[Megunticook]

Best to reef, not reduce headsail area. As things pipe up the boat will give you a lot of weather helm.

I generally don't reef until the wind hits about 15 knots, with the working jib she's very comfortable and fast. Weather helm is not bad at all. With the big foresail up yesterday it just seemed like that massive amount of canvas was catching a lot of wind force and pushing the boat over. I suppose it would've been an interesting experiment though to reef the main and see how that affected things.

Also, use your traveler and let it go to leeward. This reduces heal. Also, if you can on a beat, pinch up into wind as this too reduces heel.

No traveler on mine, but I did ease the mainsheet and she stood a little taller. Good point about heading up, that also helps although yesterday I was trying to keep my speed up.

[Tod Mills]

Just curious what others on the board do in that situation.

It helps a lot if the boat is set up so that it is easy to make appropriate adjustments. Halyard tension, cunningham, outhaul, traveler, and in the case of your fractional rig, backstay tension. It also helps if the sails are not blown out, since if they are, those aforementioned sail adjustments often have no noticeable effect.

With nice sails, I'd also be more inclined to go ahead and swap to a smaller jib rather than risk blowing out (stretching) a nice, expensive sail.

The sails on both my boats are very old and blown out and were when I bought the boats, so until I exchange them for new, I don't worry about them.

[John Stone]

Almost without exception reef the main first. That will help prevent wx helm. Also, I am reminded over and over again, when the boat heels over 20° she will go faster if you reef. Check it next time with your GPS.

[Nebe]

I know the feeling when you think you are going to be all good and then the wind pipes up. I am having a Stack Pack built for my boat over the winter to make reefing a snap. No need to worry about reef points and you can just throw your reefing lines inside the thing.

Do you have a traveler ? My first mode of defense when I am starting to get over powered is to drop the traveler. Then if that’s not enough I will ease the main t get a “bubble” in the luff. If still over powered I will take a few wraps on the Genoa furler. If that’s not good enough, the last resort is to put in a reef in the main.

If I know it’s going to be windy, I will just put a reef in before I leave the mooring.

[wikakaru]

Hi Megunticook,

I have both a Typhoon and and CD22, which are fairly similar to your Typhoon Senior, and I also sail in Penobscot Bay. In my experience it is almost always preferable to sail these boats with a 100% jib rather than a genoa, even if the breeze is light to start out with as it was on the day you describe.

If you are sailing out in the bay you will almost always get a building seabreeze from late morning to late afternoon, and if you are sailing close to the islands you are going to get acceleration zones as you pass valleys, headlands, and gaps between islands. It is rare to find a day here when the wind is going to stay consistently in a low enough range that you are going to want a genoa (which in my experience is wind that stays less than 5 knots).

These smaller Alberg-designed boats balance better, point higher, have less weather helm, heel less, and are just more delightful to sail with the working jib than with a genoa. And even in light airs they sail quite well with the working jib.

Just a few days ago I was sailing my 18-foot Typhoon with working jib next to a 32-foot Pearson Vanguard that had a big genoa. The wind was south at 5-10 knots. We were short-tacking upwind through Fox Islands Thorofare. We sailed faster and pointed higher than them and literally left them behind in our wake.

I have flown the genoa on my Typhoon twice, maybe three times at most. It's brand new, still white and krinkly. The other 267 times (but who's counting?) that I have sailed my Typhoon have been with the jib.

When the wind gets up to the point that working jib and full main have you easing the mainsheet to keep the boat from burying the leeward rail, then it is time to reef in the mainsail.

Smooth sailing! Hope to see you out on the bay sometime!

Jim

[Megunticook]

I have both a Typhoon and and CD22, which are fairly similar to your Typhoon Senior, and I also sail in Penobscot Bay. In my experience it is almost always preferable to sail these boats with a 100% jib rather than a genoa, even if the breeze is light to start out with as it was on the day you describe.

Interesting...I rarely use the big genoa, in fact there have been several seasons where I never even took it out of its bag. Almost always the working jib for all the reasons you cite. Was just experimenting the other day. Must admit, that last stretch across the west bay into Camden we were going about as fast as the boat will go. It was just the occasional gust that pushed us over a bit too much.

And yes, I'm one of those guys who will put the reef in before leaving the mooring if there's any indication that things will get wild. I remember one very breezy day I just used the reefed main with no foresail and the boat absolutely flew across the water. Definitely learned that "less is more" when it comes to sail area on this boat.

[Neil Gordon]

Definitely learned that "less is more" when it comes to sail area on this boat.

At the point where things are getting wet and wild, what you might lose in GPS boat speed by tucking in a reef will be offset by being better able to hold your course.

[John Stone]

Definitely learned that "less is more" when it comes to sail area on this boat.

At the point where things are getting wet and wild, what you might lose in GPS boat speed by tucking in a reef will be offset by being better able to hold your course.

You won’t lose boat speed. If you reef the main first to keep the helm balanced, you’ll go faster. Promise.

[MHBsailor]

I went out last week with full canvas (main + 130% both Doyle's in good condition) when the wind was light but would get intermittent gusts when I came out of "wind shadows" caused by topography into areas where I got the full strength of the gust. I decided to experiment with furling first since I was too lazy to keep reefing and unreefing. In these conditions, I found that my TY Senior was happy with the 130% furled back to 110% in the gusts and then I could quickly unfurl when I passed beyond the area where the gusts were present. I have a Harken Mk III furler and so far it has proven to be very reliable. Agree for steadier stronger winds that I would reef in advance.