Cape Dory 25 taking on water ????

[Bogeyboy]

Bought a new to me Cape Dory 25 sailboat, my third sailboat and took the maiden voyage yesterday. I had tuned the motor, stepped the mast, mounted the jib on roller furling, checked lines, haliards, etc. and really felt I was ready to take her out. With hundreds of sailing hours under my belt on other boats I felt very confident. Motored out of the harbor with my friend, Bill, another experienced sailor into a very pleasant 10 knot SW wind on Tangier Sound. Raised the sails, heeled over sweetly on a starboard tack, trimmed up and began a wonderful first sail aboard "Wind Dancer". But things began to change when I felt my feet getting wet and water was pouring in through the cockpit scuppers. Worse, when I stood to make sure bilge down below was dry I found the bilge and lower deck quickly filling with water. Water was calf deep down below within seconds but ultimately the bilge pump removed the water to a level where we got her back into the slip. Sitting upright in the slip, no water is coming in anywhere and the boat is dry below with the exception of residual water in bilge (about 1/2 inch). I know there are no breaches in the hull. Does anybody have any thoughts here? Both Bill and I questioned the ball valve below the cockpit scuppers and wondered if that was an issue-neither of us had ever seen such an arrangement so we wonder if they need to be closed during sailing? Or are we barking down the wrong sea cock? Help! Until I figure this out I have great trepidation going back out anywhere.

[Megunticook]

Yikes--that sounds absolutely frightening. Good for you to keep cool and get back safely. Sorry your maiden voyage was so disappointing.

I own a similar but not identical boat, the Typhoon Senior. I presume you're referring to the cockpit drains?

Was water pouring in through both or only the leeward one? My CD manual specifically says those are to remain open when underway and the water should never come up as high as the cockpit sole. I can only imagine that would happen if the boat was sitting very low in the water so that the waterline was above the level of the drain. Seems like you would've notice that though.

So you don't have seacocks but ball valves instead? Can't see where that would make a difference but maybe I'm missing something.

Sorry I'm not more help, I'll be interested to hear what the solution is. But simple physics would suggest that the only way that could happen is if the cockpit sole was below the waterline...

[Bogeyboy]

The two drains on the starboard side are always below the waterline on a starboard tack-unavoidable. I think the water is back-washing through one of those because when the boat is at more or less at 90 degrees upright, like in the slip, the boat is dry. I never got to a port tack so I can't say if its both sides-I was too busy scrambling to get home.
Since those drains are designed to be under water while heeled over how does water stay out of the boat? Is there a butterfly valve of some sort that supposed to prevent inbound water? Clearly, the bilge and lower deck sit at a level nearly even with those drains (at least visually) and if those entry ports are not closed somehow it seems like they would act the same as leaving the drain plug out of a powerboat-usually results in sinking boat.

In any event I do not want to spend a fortune eliminating things so anyone here with a CD 25 who has had a similar experience could really help out.

[Bogeyboy]

Megunticook- water came in on leeward cockpit drain. See my other post. Today I used main halyard to tip the boat to starboard in an attempt to duplicate the problem. Got the boat to nearly a rail down position and still could not duplicate the water entry. Turned the motor on to create turbulence and slowly allowed the boat to return to upright and everything stayed dry including bilge and cockpit. Now I think I have one of those boat gremlins that will haunt and taunt me forever. Anyone want a very pretty Cape Dory=sails well but sinks on starboard tack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[s2sailorlis]

Did you close the seacocks and sail? That would eliminate the seacocks as a source unless there is a leak coming in from the thru-hull portion.

The CD25 has stern lazarette mounted motor, any way water is coming in from there? It shouldn’t...

I’ve got a CD22 and have been at 25-45 degrees but no issues with seacocks backflowing.

[mgphl52]

Maybe a silly question... but here goes: Is there any chance that "growth" around the through hull could have funneled water into the cockpit? I've had 2 CD25s in the past and never experienced what you've described.

[Steve Laume]

The odd part of this is that water was coming into the boat from two places. The cockpit drains are supposed to be a closed system and the bilge is isolated from them. If the drains are not sealed to the cockpit then water could enter from the bilge area but this should not be the case.

I would concentrate on the water entering the bilge. Did you by chance, happen to pump the bilge at some point during your sail before the problem occurred? If you run the bilge pump while heeled enough to keep the through hull underwater it can siphon back into the bilge. I know this from experience. It will only happen when heeled over to the discharge side and will stop as soon as the boat is righted. If you can remember the sequence of events leading up to the flooding that may explain the problem. You could try to reproduce the event by sailing the boat on a decent angle of heel, pump the bilge and watch to see what happens, after the pump is shut off. It is easy to stop by standing the boat back up and pumping it out.

To fix the problem, if that is what it turns out to be, you can add a vented loop to the discharge hose and all should be well in the world, Steve.

[SVFayaway]

I think Steve is on the right track. My guess is that water only started coming in through the cockpit drains because of the extra weight of the water in the bilge. So focus on where water might be coming into the boat down below, starting with the bilge pump.

[Bogeyboy]

Thanks all. I am going to haul the boay Tuesday and check stern for leaks, holes, cracks, bad hoses . etc. to determine where the water is coming in. Will advise Board once repairs complete for future refernce.

[Steve Laume]

You might try check on the back siphoning before you do a short haul. I have never heard of a Cape Dory having a structural issue, below the waterline, that caused it to take on water. I am pretty sure you are going to be wasting your time and money, Steve.

[Bogeyboy]

Steve I have done just about everything I can to check the source while boat is in the water and I cannot duplicate in the slip even when heeling boat over to starboard rail. It apparently need moving water to duplicate and I am really reluctant to take her out and risk sinking her. Is there something you think I have not done? I am willing to try almost any reasonable suggestion.

[Steve Laume]

Can you heeled her to the point where the bilge pump discharge is underwater? If so, then do that and make sure you have a bit of water in the bilge, pump some out and then shut off the pump. If it is a back siphoning problem then you should see some water flooding back into the bilge. To stop it, just right the boat until the through hull is out of the water.

This only ever happened to me once and I was about 300 miles off shore. It was pretty scary until I figured out what it was, Steve.

[Bogeyboy]

OK, I heeled the boat over until water was tipping the rail. So everything below had to be under. Nada. No water at all. Turned on bilge pump-nada. Upright boat, took hose and filled bilge with pump off- pumped out bilge while heeled over and got a very slight backflow siphoning. But nothing like what happened last week maybe 1/4 inch of water not 1 1/2 feet. Also looked at thru hull fittings while heeled over and these were under water and no leakage. So my friend and I took her out, hoisted sails - went on a port tack and no water below or in cockpit. Came about on starboard and cockpit began to fill with water and so did the bilge-came in fast but we were prepared with bilge pump which kept the water level even, came upright , bilge pumped it out and no further water coming in. I had cleared all the storage compartments so I could get a good look at thru hull fittings, hoses, etc. Compartment surfaces all dry after three starboard inflows. Its coming in from somewhere else that I cannot see from inside the boat. I don't think its siphoning since it comes in with bilge pump completely off. So the mystery continues. I agree the cockpit fills because of the extra weight of water in stern but entry location remains elusive, Conclusion-if I can't find the entry point from inside the boat, I think I have to take a look from outside.

[sloopjohnl]

do you have a garboard drain plug?

[tjr818]

Does this boat have a water tank? If so, could it be the source?