CD 25D Hairline cracks on deck house near mast

[Robert Douglas]

Hello,

I am writing to humbly ask for advice regarding a problem I am having on my CD 25D. I have owned her for 4 years and last year I noticed a foot long hairline crack on top of the deck house near the base of the mast. This year three more appeared. Though I grew-up sailing I am new to boat ownership and fear I may have made one or more rookie mistakes that caused these cracks to appear.

I am assuming the top of the deck house is flexing in a way that it should not. Perhaps I over tightened the stays and shrouds causing compression - though I tried hard not to. Another possibility, I may have failed to properly seal the electric/VHF wiring (for the mast) holes in the deck house thereby allowing water to access and soften the balsa core in that area. I had water dripping through the inside access panel on the ceiling next to the compression pole for some time (only during rain). Unfortunately I did not understand the significance of this until recently - ugh.

I am wondering if anyone has perspective, experience, and/or advice regarding this. As an FYI, the deck house area is not soft, does not noticeably deflect when standing on it, and does not creak. My top concern is safety - might the boat be dangerous to sail - again ugh.

Thank you everyone in advance for any help/advice you can provide.

Take Care,

Robert

[Frenchy]

Hi Bob - It's difficult to offer long-distance blind advice, but I would say first: don't beat yourself up. This
leakage was probably going on before you bought the boat. The mast wires should have been caulked
where they come up in the center of the mast step but in your boat, they weren't.
If you know someone with a moisture meter, he can survey the coachroof and see if there is any
moisture in the core. It's possible that there isn't. If the sides of the wire-pass through hole are sealed
with caulk or epoxy, the rain would just pass through into the interior and not affect the core.
The cracks in the deck could be caused by water freezing in the core or more probably by normal stresses in gelcoat.
My boat had a few foot-long cracks in the coachroof too, in odd places - but they
only affected the gelcoat. The fiberglass underneath was intact. Those cracks were filled with a gelcoat putty.
I would take a dremel tool and grind into the cracks a bit and see if the break extends down into the fiberglass.
If the moisture meter indicates a dry core, I would seal the edges of the wire-pass through hole with epoxy
and then caulk the wires really well. Good luck - Jean

[Robert Douglas]

Hi Jean,

I can't thank you enough for your experienced and thoughtful advice. I plan to follow the steps you outlined and promise to post an update in early spring. This is only the second time I have posted - both asking for help. I hope to help others as my knowledge base grows. I have just sent out my CDSOA membership form and check and plan to become active in the Northeast fleet - perhaps we will run into each other! I am based in Portsmouth, NH.

Thanks again!!!!

Robert

[Steve Laume]

"Perhaps I over tightened the stays and shrouds causing compression - though I tried hard not to."

The last part of this statement has me wondering if your stays are too loose. I have observed that people tend to err on the side of a loose rig. I was guilty of this myself, for a while. Although you don't want to drive the rig through the boat or pull out the chain plates, a loose rig in not good. It will cause much more flex and work the rigging components doing more harm than if it is tight. Since you mentioned that you have a compression post, you should not worry about tightening up your rig.

I use a Loos gauge to achieve about 15% of the wire's breaking strength. This keeps things nice and straight while minimizing the flex in things. If you ask around, where you sail, someone may have one you could borrow.

I would echo Frenchy in that you shouldn't beat yourself up about how you care for your boat. Just the fact that you are on here asking questions, shows that you care. All of our boats have gel coat cracks. They are getting old and the gel coat was probably too thick to begin with. I have a bunch of wrinkles too but they are only cosmetic, Steve.

[Frenchy]

Bob, Steve has a good point about rig tension. If your budget allows, a Loos guage is a good investment. Although
most sailors don't have one, another good investment (in my opinion) is a moisture meter. It's good for surveying
the moisture in your deck and friend's boats too. It's very handy when looking at prospective boats to buy. Maine
Sail has a good article on the Electrophysics meter (the one I have) and how to use it. Here is his website:



https://marinehowto.com/

[Bob Lascelles]

Hi Bob, my boat has more than her share of gel coat cracks and like you I have some evidence of leaking at the mast step. So this year (like you) I’m going to be concentrating on repairing some of them and re-bedding the mast step, vhf & lighting cables and cabin top fittings. One thing about the 25D that I feel good about, is that they have a strong aluminum compression post directly under the mast step to resist the coach roof sagging.
By the way it’s great to hear you just joined CDSOA. It’s a really great group of people, always willing to share their experience and to help. Hope to see you at some of our events this Spring or out on the water this Summer.
All the best
Bob

[Carl Thunberg]

I won't add to what the others have already said, but your location caught my eye. If you store your boat at Great Bay Marine, I'm in Row 4. I may be Brand-X'er now, but I have owned and loved two previous Cape Dorys. Also, consider joining us at the Cabin Fever Lunch at Newicks in February. I'm not sure of the date, but Bob Lascelles is our Fleet Captain. He will be posting something soon.

[MHBsailor]

It's hard to know for sure without seeing at least one photo but Cape Dory sailboats are notorious for gelcoat cracks, which are thought to be the result of a combination of the factory applying the gelcoat too thick and as others have pointed out deck and cabin house roof flexing. My TY Senior has a few gelcoat cracks but nothing like most CDs that I looked at when I was searching, as it was stored inside for most of the off-season since new. I spoke with a repair guy that comes to our marina and he says that he grinds the old gelcoat off around the cracks, glasses it, and then applies new gelcoat. I am thinking of having him address some of them, or I may give it a try myself. Would you be able to post a photo or two so we can all see what you are describing? I second the recommendation of using a Loos wire rope tension gauge - I've been using mine for years. Cheers! JD

[Dick Kobayashi]

Robert, No need to ask humbly on this board. As you can tell there is lots of experience here and friendly advice . It has been a life saver for me in the 15+ years I have owned Susan B.

[Robert Douglas]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the great advice and encouragement! I will try to reply faster in the future and apologize for the delay. I have combined my responses below. Happy New Year and my best to the group!

Steve, I think you are probably right regarding my rig, I am excited about implementing your method. There is so much information out there about tightening stays and shrouds - its great to hear what works for another CD owner.

Jean, I am looking into buying a Loos Gauge and agree that its a good investment - I feel like I have been flying blind without one. Also, I will try to work in a moisture meter this year. If not, I will definitely rent or borrow - thanks for the article!!!

Bob, good luck on your project!! Perhaps the same project will be in my future - big smile. I definitely hope to get as involved with CDSOA as possible. I feel like I have reached a point where I cannot become a better all around sailor without becoming part of a community of people who actually know what they are doing:) Plus, it seems cool to be able to communicate with and hangout with folks that are also passionate about maintaining and sailing boats!

Carl, yes I am at Great Bay Marine row 2! My boat's name is Southpaw (black bottom paint, green stripe on hull). My plan is to attend the lunch so perhaps we will meet there. I look forward to it!

JD, good luck with your cracks - I hope the repairs go well. I will definitely post some pics. I will be visiting the boat next week-end and will be sure to take pictures. Thanks for taking an interest I really appreciate the help!

Dick, LOL - yes I am quickly learning how amazing and helpful the CDSOA is, what a great group of people. I certainly hope to help others when I can - perhaps as my experience-level grows this will become more and more possible.

[Paul D.]

While I think about 80% of the gelcoat cracks on Cape Dorys are cosmetic only, it pays to keep an eye on them and repair when possible. I generally like Don Casey's repair advice. This is a good primer before taking on some gelcoat repair.

https://www.amazon.com/Sailboat-Refinis ... 0071486585

Good luck!

[Robert Douglas]

Thanks Paul - and thanks for the link - Awesome!

[Joe Myerson]

Hi Backstay,
Like Cap'n. Lascelles, my 25D has her share of gelcoat cracks, and some leakage around the mast step. I've dealt with some of the most severe-looking cracks, but let others go. The leak is now becoming a concern, but not a serious one. It's great that you're joining the CDSOA; the Northeast Fleet has the largest membership and probably the most diverse sailing waters. But if you get a chance to travel, we've got active fleets through the Carolinas and into the Gulf Coast.
Hope to see you at the Annual Meeting this month.

Best wishes for fair winds in 2019,
--Joe

[MHBsailor]

Since deck and cabin house gelcoat and nonskid cracks seem to be endemic throughout the Cape Dory sailboat fleet (don't know about the CD power boats) it would seem like a good idea for us to put together a guide on how to address gelcoat cracks by type of crack and location. It's good to hear from other posters that in their experience typically the gelcoat cracks don't go all the way down to the balsa core decking, but to me this is the greatest fear that motivates fixing these cracks before they do!

I've added a few photos of typical cracks that I saw while searching for my 22-foot Typhoon Senior. Some (not pictured) were so widespread that basically the only cure would be to grind it all off and start over (sounds like an expensive pro job). There is a good article on spot gelcoat repairs by Bruce Bingham entitled "Plastic Surgery" (Part 1) in the April 2005 edition of Cruising World.

Does anyone on this board know what brand of gelcoat the Cape Dory factory was using in the mid-1980s for their sailboats? I live near the old factory and there are still some "old timers" around who used to work at the factory, so I will see if I can get ahold of any of them to find out. If any of you also live in Southeastern Massachusetts and know any CD "old timers" would you please pass their contact info along to me via PM? I'd love to write an article about their experiences working at the factory too.

I'm thinking this thread should probably be moved to the "Projects" section?

[Martinhilldpo]

When drilling holes in the pad fwd of mast base to install new sockets it was plain to see that the deck in that spot was solid fibreglass as per proper construction and design. If yours is the same it would not be possible for a leak to reach the deck core.

Plus 1 for the Loos gauge. The best $100 you could spend.