Cost Per Sail

[Frenchy]

Reading this thread kind of goads me to get out sailing and cruising more. I've avoided thinking about the cost. In
some measure, I think, the concern about cost relates to family. If you're financing everything yourself and don't
have a "significant other", things are easy. When your partner is contributing to the household and especially if
that person doesn't like sailing, things get complicated.
I don't travel, don't go to restaurants, don't gamble and don't even drink (that much - okay, maybe a bottle of
wine a week). So sailing is my sin. I survived 'nam ('69-70') and a near-death knife attack where I lost about 5 pints
of blood. So the cost of sailing is not something I care to think about a lot.

[Alan Stewart]

Recently I was chatting with the proud new owner of a Typhoon in Maine and we each talked about our experiences of learning to sail in our youth and how much sailing had enriched our lives - he then told me how his 75 year old dad had gone on a quest to locate the very same H12-1/2 that He had learned to sail on as a child and ultimately tracked it down somewhere in Nova Scotia(!). He purchased the boat, and now spends around $10,000 annually on it in maintenance (it’s a wooden boat, after all), but I doubt very much that he weighs that cost against the pleasure he garners from “reliving” his youth with an old friend... everything is “relative”. I’ve always cautioned people that the one thing they never want to do is amortize the cost per hour of spending time on the water - it’s a fool’s errand, after all...

[Dick Kobayashi]

Chris, Add guests and crew it will increase the denominator in the calculation...and soon cost per sail per person will be less than a movie ticket.

[Carl Thunberg]

Sailing is a luxury. There are few who dispute that. I have sailed since I was 8 years old. You may say it's in my blood, but it's not. When I lost my CD30 in a divorce, I made the economic calculation, and came to the uncomfortable conclusion that sailing had to go. I was without a boat for 5 years, and didn't miss it because I knew it was a luxury, and necessities come first. So, I have a lot of sympathy for the economic calculation. I'm making that calculation on my Boston Whaler now. No one makes that calculation, unless they are about to make a decision.

[tjr818]

Sailing is a luxury. . . .

This might end up right there with the tiller vs. wheel and the locked prop discussions. Sailing is part of my life. Sometimes I have not had a sailboat, but sailing was still there, maybe only in a book or a magazine, but it is always there.

[Joe Myerson]

Sailing is part of my life. Sometimes I have not had a sailboat, but sailing was still there, maybe only in a book or a magazine, but it is always there.

Well said, Tim!

--Joe

[Keith]

Wow this thread is amazing!!! It has taken me through several different mood swings. I agree then I disagree,back and forth. As many of you know from my entries over the years. I bought Moon Dance cheap then spent several hundred hours the first winter and spring getting her in shape. I was out of work at the time and it was the best therapy in the world. From that first year on I think that she has been paying me not the other way around. I sail every weekend 2 days plus holidays on Nantucket sound from the first week in May to the last cold day in October. It was 32 the morning that I hauled this year. I think I only missed two days due to lightening this year. Any way thats over 50 days per year up above the frost line as someone put it. Not sure where I'm going with this but I guess all I want to say is. We all love sailing and our Cape Dories or we would not be on here, the cost is completely and totally irrelevant, the fact that we are here is testimony to that.

Live long and sail as often as you can, cost be damned!!!

Keith

[casampson]

As I mentioned in another thread, this year I was unable to store my CD 25 in my yard because a neighbor surveyed the property next door, and I lost three valuable feet along my driveway. leaving me without enough room for my boat and stands. I investigated many different boatyards in the area and was disappointed to learn that all required that I allow them to paint my bottom in the spring and that shrink-wrapping or a custom cover was required. I have tarps. All things considered, winter storage, including haul and launch, would have cost me $2500 to $3000, or more. Too much, in my mind, for a boat that was worth less than $5000 on the market if I were to sell it. Everything worked out, however, as a friend has allowed me to store Mahalo in one of his fields for a very reasonable fee. The only downside is that I don't have electricity or running water available for when I want to work on my boat. My first challenge is to remove the relatively small film of marine growth that is on my bottom now. I bought a cordless sander and some 80 grit paper and plan to give it a go as soon as possible. Power washing is not an option, unless someone out there knows of a reasonably priced mobile service.

For one reason or another, this year I only was able to go sailing 14 times, and they were all short sails at that. My costs remain at about $2,000 for the year, so my average cost per sail was about $140. This doesn't bother me as much as it did when I first started this thread, but I have given some thought to selling my CD25 and buying a smaller boat on a trailer to keep costs down as much as possible. But I hesitate, because I do enjoy my boat very much and, although my older grandchildren don't like sailing, I have some younger ones coming up that might enjoy sailing and spending an overnight on board. Now that I have found a place to store Mahalo, keeping her is more of a possibility.

[Steve Laume]

For a fraction of what it would have cost you to store your boat at one of those yards, you could buy a small generator and a gas powered power washer. Both of these items would come in handy for other uses. You don't need pressure water to use the power washer. I tank in the back of a pickup will gavity feed it just fine.

The field arrangement sounds great as you will not have all the mess of bottom work in your driveway and will have much more room than in the typical boat yard.

Raven takes me on adventures that are not available and would be un affordable if they were, Steve.

[radsailor]

My "cost per sail" is zero! Every penny spent on Orion is deducted from my children's inheritance.

This should be on a bronze plaque mounted on every boat

[Speedgraphic]

I don't have a CD (YET!) so I can only comment as someone who wants to start sailing a bigger boat. I currently have an O'Day DS1 which I'm learning on, and even with that the costs have started to add up because it needs a bit of restoration.

However my hope is that I'm well situated to sail 'relatively' affordably. My neighbor generously allows me to use his mooring for free, or for the costs of the whisky I buy him! I could have a mooring put in myself as well, not sure what it costs but it's less than a rental in the long run I'm sure. We live on this tidal cove so I really only have to put in a Kayak or dinghy when the tide is high enough and row out to my boat. I live on Westport Island, and the cove we're on literally faces Robinhood Marina (where they still will make a 36 from CD designs I hear). The North End Co-Op will haul out a smaller sailboat and store it without restrictions I think. I was quoted $650 for a Winter season when I was considering a CD22. Robinhood will also store but they will want to do work and I'm sure the costs go up a lot. With a 25 I could theoretically have a trailer and store her at home, the cost of that trailer would be a deciding factor on whether that's worth it to me...it probably will be.

My wife and I are solidly lower-middle-class. We live affordably in a rural place, in a small 1600sq/ft house. No kids, just dogs. I'm a small business owner and my wife works at a bakery, helps me out at my business. A sailboat would be a luxury with a capitol L. I could be spending all that money on an IRA or 401K. On the other hand, why should I live all my days for a retirement that may never come? If we didn't sail, how much would we spend on far flung vacations? Some people have 'camps' (aka cabins in non-Maine speak). Some people have RVs. Some people have terrifying porcelain doll collections. Even if I spent top dollar on the boat I want, I'd be many years away from the cost of a comparable 'camp' in northern Maine. As many others have stated costs are relatively to enjoyment. As long as you are being mostly-responsible with your life I think it's fine. For me it probably comes down to "new car" vs sailboat. I don't really care much about cars.

My goal is within the next 2 years to find a 25D or 27 (my preference is for the 25D but the prices are kinda nuts) that doesn't need a lot of up-front work. By spreading out the projects year to year I'll be able to enjoy her more and not get too bogged down in the money-pit side of things. Shea and I don't mind sleeping in a tent, so the saloon of a 25D would be like a luxury from that perspective. There are so many places to explore in Maine, I can't think of a better way to do that than by sail, without a tour guide or other rails. I know that it's a bit of a crazy plan no financial advisor would recommend, but if I don't do it the cash I save will not be any great consolation.

So anyway starting next Winter you can all expect me to be haunting the buy/sell board for a CD25D and bothering you all with questions. I'm 36. My goal is to be coastal cruising before I'm 40.

[Jim Walsh]

I don't have a CD (YET!) so I can only comment as someone who wants to start sailing a bigger boat. I currently have an O'Day DS1 which I'm learning on, and even with that the costs have started to add up because it needs a bit of restoration.

However my hope is that I'm well situated to sail 'relatively' affordably. My neighbor generously allows me to use his mooring for free, or for the costs of the whisky I buy him! I could have a mooring put in myself as well, not sure what it costs but it's less than a rental in the long run I'm sure. We live on this tidal cove so I really only have to put in a Kayak or dinghy when the tide is high enough and row out to my boat. I live on Westport Island, and the cove we're on literally faces Robinhood Marina (where they still will make a 36 from CD designs I hear). The North End Co-Op will haul out a smaller sailboat and store it without restrictions I think. I was quoted $650 for a Winter season when I was considering a CD22. Robinhood will also store but they will want to do work and I'm sure the costs go up a lot. With a 25 I could theoretically have a trailer and store her at home, the cost of that trailer would be a deciding factor on whether that's worth it to me...it probably will be.

My wife and I are solidly lower-middle-class. We live affordably in a rural place, in a small 1600sq/ft house. No kids, just dogs. I'm a small business owner and my wife works at a bakery, helps me out at my business. A sailboat would be a luxury with a capitol L. I could be spending all that money on an IRA or 401K. On the other hand, why should I live all my days for a retirement that may never come? If we didn't sail, how much would we spend on far flung vacations? Some people have 'camps' (aka cabins in non-Maine speak). Some people have RVs. Some people have terrifying porcelain doll collections. Even if I spent top dollar on the boat I want, I'd be many years away from the cost of a comparable 'camp' in northern Maine. As many others have stated costs are relatively to enjoyment. As long as you are being mostly-responsible with your life I think it's fine. For me it probably comes down to "new car" vs sailboat. I don't really care much about cars.

My goal is within the next 2 years to find a 25D or 27 (my preference is for the 25D but the prices are kinda nuts) that doesn't need a lot of up-front work. By spreading out the projects year to year I'll be able to enjoy her more and not get too bogged down in the money-pit side of things. Shea and I don't mind sleeping in a tent, so the saloon of a 25D would be like a luxury from that perspective. There are so many places to explore in Maine, I can't think of a better way to do that than by sail, without a tour guide or other rails. I know that it's a bit of a crazy plan no financial advisor would recommend, but if I don't do it the cash I save will not be any great consolation.

So anyway starting next Winter you can all expect me to be haunting the buy/sell board for a CD25D and bothering you all with questions. I'm 36. My goal is to be coastal cruising before I'm 40.

Seems like a good plan to me. I’m a big proponent for doing things while you are young and healthy as opposed to being stymied by analysis paralysis or waiting for all the financial pieces to fall precisely into place. Since your goal is coastal cruising stick to something which is capable of keeping you safe and comfortable for a reasonable length of time. Just remember that “fixer uppers” routinely cost vast sums of time and money beyond what was originally planned. You want something which is usable the day of purchase. Good luck.

[Jim Walsh]

My "cost per sail" is zero! Every penny spent on Orion is deducted from my children's inheritance.

This should be on a bronze plaque mounted on every boat

Still rings true today.
I may have to have one cast in bronze.....

[fritz3000g]

The question is, do I get enough additional sailing pleasure out of the 25 to justify the cost?

I agree that this is the question. I also think like you do and for me considering the cost is part of the pleasure.

A related question is "If I didn't spend this $2500/yr on this, is there something else that I'd get more pleasure (term means whatever you decide it does) out of for the same dollar amount"?

$2500/year would buy a lot of scotch, a massive pool suite, a much nicer house, a big donation to something you believe in, a horse, a camper and lots of camping fees, an earlier retirement, etc...

If the answer is yes, then you should be honest with yourself and sell the boat. If it's no, then the same honesty would tell you to keep it.

[mgphl52]

I agree that this is the question. I also think like you do and for me considering the cost is part of the pleasure.

A related question is "If I didn't spend this $2500/yr on this, is there something else that I'd get more pleasure (term means whatever you decide it does) out of for the same dollar amount"?

$2500/year would buy a lot of scotch, a massive pool suite, a much nicer house, a horse, a camper and lots of camping fees, an earlier retirement, etc...

If the answer is yes, then you should be honest with yourself and sell the boat. If it's no, then the same honesty would tell you to keep it.

Yep! As I have been sailing less, biking more and now retired, I'm seriously thinking of selling KAYLA...