Outboard Decision for a 22-Foot Typhoon Senior

[MHBsailor]

Calling all TY Senior and Cape Dory 22 skippers, I am in the market for a new outboard for my TY Senior and have got it down to two models: A 20-in 6HP 4-Stroke Yamaha and a 25-in 6HP 4-Stroke Tohatsu "SailPro". The 5-HP Honda 4-Stroke is another possibility, but I've had great experience with previous small 4-Stroke Yamaha outboards so I'm leaning in that direction, but the longest shaft available in Yamaha and Honda is 20-in. How important do you think the extra 5-inches is when hobby horsing in bigger waves?

Part of my mission profile is to sail out of the Narragansett Bay (on good weather days) and head down to Mystic CT, up to the New Bedford/Fairhaven/Marion areas or over to Cuttyhunk Island, and despite one's best efforts the weather isn't always as predicted and it can get choppy. I wonder if the extra 5-inches is less of an issue with the lazarette-mounted TY Senior than the stern-mounted outboard on the Cape Dory 22?

While I like the idea of the 25-in shaft of the 6HP 4-stroke Tohatsu, I've read some less than complimentary things about it on this board ranging from rough running to corrosion issues after a few years, which as you know is really critical for a lazarette-mounted outboard. Curious what kind of outboard you're usining and its pluses and minuses (in case there is another make and model that I should also consider). I definitely don't want to go any bigger than 6HP because the 8 and 9.9 HP engines are real beasts to get in and out of the lazarette and are overkill for this boat. I need to make up my mind by mid-November because Yamaha has a sale on them until then ($200 off plus they will extend the warranty to 6 years). Thanks!

JD

[Dave H]

Hi JD, I used the 6 hp Nissan longshaft in my Ty Sr. I have waves wash over the cabin top, but never had the prop come out of the water. I do not necessarily recommend the Nissan. I needed a very knowledgeable mechanic to correct the slow speed running problem. I also needed a power head gasket after 5 years.
Dave

[casampson]

I have the Tohatsu 6hp Sailpro on my CD 25. I don't love it, but it does the job. It is quite new, but it did act up on me on two occasions, although these might have been due to my own inexperience with the motor. It does seem noisy, but it is, after all, in a well which naturally resonates. We closed the lazarette cover on it once while motoring out of the harbor, and it actually wasn't too bad. On a positive note, it's a real gas sipper. I once traveled for about 25 miles on about two gallons of gas at half throttle, which pushed the boat at about 4 knots. I still don't believe it is running perfectly though, and I'm looking forward to getting it out of the water for the winter so that a mechanic can look at it and see whether there is something wrong or I'm just imagining that there is.

That said, the 25-inch shaft seems to place the prop at the right depth. I'd much rather have a Yamaha, but I don't know if the 20-inch shaft would put me at a disadvantage.

Chris

[s2sailorlis]

A friend has the Tohatsu 6hp sail bro...it’s sits in a lazarette (Coronado 25).

He’s had nothing but problems with it since new 3 years ago. Same with another club member owning the Tohatsu sail pro. It’s hard starting, runs tougher than it should.

In fact, just today when we moved his boat it stalled 3x leaving the mooring. But it started right up ..Not sure these puppies like to be near salt water, much less any water... They do seem to be prone to corrosion unfortunately...

I think the carbs on these 4 strokes are a bit fussy. I’ve read the orifices are so tiny they’re often subject to blockage so you really need clean fuel and stay on top of changing the filter.

My olde Tohatsu 5HP 2 stroke, now going on year 23, runs quite decently. Starts on 2nd or 3rd pull and idles wonderfully, though it’s a bit of a shaker...

It pushes my CD22 quite well. I have the Spartan deck mount and it needs every inch of that 25”shaft.. it will pop up out of the water in 2-3 foot seas so I need to be mindful of dropping the rpm and throwing her into neutral. It’s Flintstone technology but I think it will run forever...

I wish Yamaha or Honda made a 6hp 25” shaft....

[Megunticook]

My TySenior came with an '08 Yamaha 4hp long shaft. I just finished my fifth season with it. It's worked well for me and I have not yet had a situation where the prop came out of the water in big seas (at least not that I'm aware of--I assume you would hear the rpms rev up when that happens).

It'll do 4-5 knots no problem. I maintain the motor thoroughly (including disassembling and cleaning the carb. each autumn), it starts easy and runs without issues. Wouldn't call it quiet exactly, but with the lid down on the motor well it's bearable. Very very efficient on gas--this motor actually broke the world record for an outboard by going over 60 miles on a single gallon.

Light weight is a real plus, although after the first two years I decided to just let it live in the motor well for the entire season (I pull it out to scrub the lower unit once a month or so).

[Carl Thunberg]

Just curious, do you disconnect the gas line and run it out of gas every time? If not, make it a habit. The Tohatsu Sailpro is considered a reliable engine. I never had any trouble with mine.

Edit: To be clear, if I'm going to use the boat again the next day, I don't bother running it out. Only when I know it's going to sit for a couple weeks.

[casampson]

I've never done that, but will from now on. Seems like a good idea. I should add that I added a full can of SeaFoam to my tank, and my Sailpro has run better ever since.

[Megunticook]

Just curious, do you disconnect the gas line and run it out of gas every time? If not, make it a habit.

I always used to keep mine wet. Never had issues. Then last winter an older, very experienced mechanic told me to run it dry after each use. Made sense, so I did that after launching in the spring. The boat sat for two weeks. When I went to start it next time it wouldn't start at all. I disassembled the carb and found evidence of gummy oxidized fuel in the float bowl. Cleaned, reassembled, and it fired right up. I stopped running it dry and never had any more issues.

Lesson: if you run a carb dry, a small bit of residual fuel remains in the float bowl and can quickly oxidize, then clog things up. If the bowl is full of fuel, that oxidation process takes much longer--assuming your fuel is fresh and/or you added a good stabilizer. I use the Yamaha stuff, seems to keep the fuel good through the 5 month boating season.

At the end of the season I definitely run it dry, then the carb. gets thoroughly cleaned.

[John Stone]

A little thread drift but ... I don’t have a Ty. But I do use a Honda 9.8 4 stroke to power my CD 36 when I need an engine. I always run it dry. Every time. I also do the same on our 9.8 two stroke we use on a small aluminum skiff. Never had an issue. I unplug the fuel line from the engine and with the hose attachment over the water intake I start the engine and run it dry. When I start it next time, I plug the fuel line in and pressurize the fuel system with the fuel bulb. If you listen closely you can hear the fuel moving through the engine fuel system and the air being forced out. The engine often starts on the first pull.


I use ethanol free fuel in all our carburetor engines—outboards, lawn mower, motorcycle, weed wackers —except the car and truck. If ethanol was all I had access to, and it was going to sit in the tank for more than a couple weeks, I would use a fuel stabilizer. Ethanol is terrible fuel. Hard on all the rubber and plastic components in your fuel system. It softens and breaks down those components which then clog jets and other orifices.

I think the engine/parts manufacturers are getting better at using components resistant to ethanol’s deleterious effects but an ounce of precaution is worth a pound of cure.

Side note, I was always taught it is safe to run a carburetor engine dry...not so on a fuel injected engine.

[Kilgore]

My SailPro did not come with a fuel filter, so I added one. I also disconnect the gas line at the end of every trip and run the motor at slightly above idle til it dies, then close the choke, and do it again. This helps immensely.
If you can get corn-free gas, use it.

[MHBsailor]

Thanks everyone for your replies! Just ordered a new 6-HP 4-stroke Yamaha as it is very close in weight to the 4 HP 4-Stroke Yamaha and is not much more expensive. I get into situations now and then going head to wind against a strong current under a bridge and having a little extra "oomph" can sure be handy in those situations.

My local Yamaha dealer said to always run Yamaha brand fuel stabilizer when using gas containing ethanol, as they've seen lots of problems in engines that use other fuel stabilizers. I also asked him about ethanol-free gasolines such as unleaded Sunoco "racing gas" and he said that wouldn't invalidate the warranty. You have to be careful though because some of the Sunoco racing gas formulations contain lead, which is obviously dangerous to people and bad for the environment. From what I can tell, the unleaded "Optima" formulation (https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/optima) may be a viable option as its uses include "boats and personal water craft". He also mentioned that you can get "TRUFUEL" 4-cycle fuel at Lowes which is another ethanol-free gasoline used in tractor lawn mowers, etc. While these types of gasoline products may seem expensive on a per-gallon basis, the reality is that I typically don't use more than 3-6 gallons per year as our season is shorter here. Despite this relatively small additional total cost, it can prevent costly carburetor rebuilds and other maintenance issues, and will increase reliability which is the most argument in favor of using it.

He also told me that the small Yamaha's have been redesigned to make laying them down on one side to prevent oil from leaking into the cylinder head less of an issue now.

I'll let you all know how the 20-in shaft works out next season. I'm hoping that the lazarette mount puts the prop 5-in lower than when it's hanging off the stern like on the CD 22.

[Megunticook]

I think that was a good choice. Yamaha has a good rep. and my experience with the F4 has been great.

I use the Yamaha fuel stabilizer and have had no issues. I also use their "Ring Free Plus" additive but not sure that's as crucial as the stabilizer.

If you have an airport near you, take a shot at getting some aviation fuel--probably be cheaper than those packaged fuels.

Plan on thoroughly cleaning the carb. each winter and you should have no troubles.

[John Stone]

An interesting side note...I spent about three weeks on Vancouver Island in July/Aug this past summer splicing the rigging on a 20,000lb Lyle Hess designed Falmouth 34’ cutter. At the time we had diesel engine issues but needed to move the boat four times over a total distance of about 30NM. We did it with a Yamaha F4 and an 8’ inflatable. It wasn’t fast but it worked. It also proved to be very maneuverable as we had to steer the boat twice backwards down a fairway about 75 yards long between a bunch of expensive schooners. So, I the Yamaha F4 is a good choice and will be all the power you need on a Ty.

[MHBsailor]

Avgas for piston engine private aircraft is "100LL" which translates to 100 octane "low lead" which is a misnomer because while it is less lead than previous genav formulations is still a lot of lead so you would never want to run it in an outboard (probably wouldn't be legal anyway).

Very cool John! I went with the 6 because it's the same weight as the 4 (the dealer said the only difference is the carb) and it was only a few hundred dollars more.

[Moonshadow]

If I read your post correctly you are contemplating a 20 or 25 inch 6 hp motor. I have a Typhoon Sr. and it came with a 4 hp mercury. I always assumed it was a long shaft but not having lots of exposure to small outboards and not having removed it from the well I did not know for sure. One day I took the motor out of the well to use on my dinghy and discovered that is was not a long shaft outboard. I got curious and measured the distance from where the motor mounts on the board in the well and discovered that it is only 10 inches from the mount point to the water. A standard length shaft works quite well with a typhoon sr. It is cheaper, lighter, and can be used on other small boats such as a dinghy or a jon boat.

I borrowed a friends 6hp yamaha and used it for a day in my typhoon senior. It was OK. The gas cap on the top was higher/taller so the well cover would not close. The 6hp showed no noticeable difference from my 4 hp with a high thrust prop.

I hope this info is helpful. Good luck.