Advice Sought

[Brett Miller]

I am confronting a dilemma that I am fairly certain may of you have faced and I would greatly appreciate any insight my fellow Cape Dory owners can provide. Here's the background. I have been the proud owner of a CD 25 (No. 669) for about four years. As great as the boat is (and notwithstanding all of the blood, sweat, tears, and CASH I have poured into making it better than perfect), my 6'3" frame is beginning to retaliate from years of abuse and insists on more space. I am working on a 10 to 15 year plan which hopefully will culminate in some extended cruising. In the meantime, my sailing activities will be limited to weekend cruising on the Chesapeake, with an occasionally foray beyond.

So here's the question -- what should the next boat be? Option One is to purchase a CD 30, 31, or 33, as an intermediate step, and take the big plunge for the "best and final" boat in a decade or so. Option two is to take the bigger step now, purchase the boat I would hope to take the ultimate powder on, get used to it over a longer period, upgrade it as necessary spreading the cost over the years. The most likely culprit for Option Two would be a Hans Christian 38. I recognized that this may not be the best choice for Bay sailing (particularly in the dog days of August). I also recognize that the suggestion of purchasing something other than a Cape Dory may offend some, but at least I didn't mention another "H" boat (rhymes with "punter"). Of course, there is a third option, keep the CD 25 for another ten years. With regard to this latter option, my heart is in it, but by back and wife are not.

Any guidance from those who have considered this or similar issues (and have actually made a decision), would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Brett

[len]

brett

since you asked ... i'll put my two cents in, and am very interested in others point of view

my advice is buy a boat you can use and enjoy now and for the foreseeable future, don't buy one now that may be the perfect boat for 10 years from now but isn't really right now - who can confidently predict what they will need or want a decade ahead?

len



md.frel@nwh.org

[Jon]

Bret,

Perhaps a Hans Christian 38 is really more than you need. HC also makes a nice 33 that could suit you well for now, and perhaps prove to be adequate for longer term plans. Over the years you will get a feel for this. If the HC33 is not enough, your could move up to the HC38 when the time comes.

It's ok - you can still hang out with us.

Best of luck
Jon

[Warren Kaplan]

Brett,
You have the "luxury" of not being in a hurry here. Its obvious that the CD25 is not serving your purposes even now. The suggestions already made are certainly good alternatives. I would only add this. With the economy changing such as it is, alot of great boats may be coming on the market at hard to pass up prices if history is any lesson. I think I would sit back and scour the "for sale" ads until what you want turns up at a great price. You may even be able to afford "more boat" that way. Certainly you could wait a few years, but that means sticking with the CD25 and its problems. Just my view as one way to attack this.
Warren



Setsail728@aol.com

[Dennis Ward]

I am confronting a dilemma that I am fairly certain may of you have faced and I would greatly appreciate any insight my fellow Cape Dory owners can provide. Here's the background. I have been the proud owner of a CD 25 (No. 669) for about four years. As great as the boat is (and notwithstanding all of the blood, sweat, tears, and CASH I have poured into making it better than perfect), my 6'3" frame is beginning to retaliate from years of abuse and insists on more space. I am working on a 10 to 15 year plan which hopefully will culminate in some extended cruising. In the meantime, my sailing activities will be limited to weekend cruising on the Chesapeake, with an occasionally foray beyond.

Brett, Four years ago I was happy with my CD25D and looking forward to retirement and a CD36 in 5 or 6 years. Then I broke my back. Recovery was slow and not 100% so I had to rethink my plan. Long story short.... we bought a fresh water CD33 (as soon as I could get around in a brace) have been sailing it and enjoying it for three years, and couldn't be more satisfied. We have desided the CD36 is more boat than we need and so are upgrading the 33 with the money we saved and will take our grand retirement adventure with it! We still have the 25D, loved it too much to part with it. Dennis, CD33 #41, WindWard Grace

So here's the question -- what should the next boat be? Option One is to purchase a CD 30, 31, or 33, as an intermediate step, and take the big plunge for the "best and final" boat in a decade or so. Option two is to take the bigger step now, purchase the boat I would hope to take the ultimate powder on, get used to it over a longer period, upgrade it as necessary spreading the cost over the years. The most likely culprit for Option Two would be a Hans Christian 38. I recognized that this may not be the best choice for Bay sailing (particularly in the dog days of August). I also recognize that the suggestion of purchasing something other than a Cape Dory may offend some, but at least I didn't mention another "H" boat (rhymes with "punter"). Of course, there is a third option, keep the CD 25 for another ten years. With regard to this latter option, my heart is in it, but by back and wife are not.

Any guidance from those who have considered this or similar issues (and have actually made a decision), would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Brett

DWard34@aol.com

[Larry DeMers]

If I were in your situation, but had the lessons I have learned in our CD30, now 12 years in our care, I would opt at this time to find a good deal on a 330 or 36 only. Buy it, outfit it, get used to it, love it as yours. You and your wife will then gradually become one with it, and get that out of the way for your grand adventure. When that time comes, it will be plenty confusing enough with all of the complexities of releasing your landlubber life for the sailing life..right? Selling/renting out/closing down the house, storing the possessions you can't part with, healing the hurt feelings of the friends and family members left behind, arranging mail forwarding and establishing your manner of communications to your home base, etc. etc.

The boat should be an automatic thing to you at that time..not a new consideration to be gotten used to. This means that you have amortized the equipment purchases during the time when you are making good money, allowing time to get familiar with and proficient in operating all of the gear..and in doing the maintenance. You *really* do not want it all to be plopped down on your shoulders at the same time. This is recipe to heart attack..or divorce. I am familiar with a couple cruisers that ended in Beaufort, SC. due to this exact thing. He even decided that he would learn Celstial **while transiting the ICW!**. one word describes this..STUPID! Well, ok, two words;UNSEAMANLIKE (that is the largest insult a sailor can receive in my opinion).
Do the bookwork and learning NOW. Get the mistakes out of the way NOW, while you are near facilities that can make it all better.
Then you can enjoy your trip with the confidence of a person that *knows* what they are doing..not guessing what they are doing. There is a big difference in comfort levels for you..and for your wife.

Hope you hear this..it is essential! I have seen the results of the other approach too often..and it makes you sad to see how hard it can be for some people.

By the way, on the choice of the Hans Christians..I would encourage you to look instead at Cabo Rico's of similar size-or Goddard 36's. Either are far better boats I believe.

Cheers! and have fun..you have a lot of that ahead of you!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I am confronting a dilemma that I am fairly certain may of you have faced and I would greatly appreciate any insight my fellow Cape Dory owners can provide. Here's the background. I have been the proud owner of a CD 25 (No. 669) for about four years. As great as the boat is (and notwithstanding all of the blood, sweat, tears, and CASH I have poured into making it better than perfect), my 6'3" frame is beginning to retaliate from years of abuse and insists on more space. I am working on a 10 to 15 year plan which hopefully will culminate in some extended cruising. In the meantime, my sailing activities will be limited to weekend cruising on the Chesapeake, with an occasionally foray beyond.

So here's the question -- what should the next boat be? Option One is to purchase a CD 30, 31, or 33, as an intermediate step, and take the big plunge for the "best and final" boat in a decade or so. Option two is to take the bigger step now, purchase the boat I would hope to take the ultimate powder on, get used to it over a longer period, upgrade it as necessary spreading the cost over the years. The most likely culprit for Option Two would be a Hans Christian 38. I recognized that this may not be the best choice for Bay sailing (particularly in the dog days of August). I also recognize that the suggestion of purchasing something other than a Cape Dory may offend some, but at least I didn't mention another "H" boat (rhymes with "punter"). Of course, there is a third option, keep the CD 25 for another ten years. With regard to this latter option, my heart is in it, but by back and wife are not.

Any guidance from those who have considered this or similar issues (and have actually made a decision), would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Brett

demers@sgi.com

[Brett Miller]

Dennis,

I get the lesson here, as well as the suggestion of others that 10 years is a long way off and much can happen in between. Your back story resonates with me, as I broke my collar bone (really badly) playing hockey in December. It's been a real slog, but its sloooooooooooooooowly getting better. I don't think it will effect my long-term sailing activities (although it scared the @?% out of me) but I'll never be 100%. I consider it a friendly reminder that no one knows what lurks around the corner and it has prompted me to take some action to put the master plan into effect (thus, my earlier post) while I can.

Thanks to others for their input as well. I like the compromise approach (a 33, whether it be HC or CD, and keep the 25!).

Best, Brett

I am confronting a dilemma that I am fairly certain may of you have faced and I would greatly appreciate any insight my fellow Cape Dory owners can provide. Here's the background. I have been the proud owner of a CD 25 (No. 669) for about four years. As great as the boat is (and notwithstanding all of the blood, sweat, tears, and CASH I have poured into making it better than perfect), my 6'3" frame is beginning to retaliate from years of abuse and insists on more space. I am working on a 10 to 15 year plan which hopefully will culminate in some extended cruising. In the meantime, my sailing activities will be limited to weekend cruising on the Chesapeake, with an occasionally foray beyond.

Brett, Four years ago I was happy with my CD25D and looking forward to retirement and a CD36 in 5 or 6 years. Then I broke my back. Recovery was slow and not 100% so I had to rethink my plan. Long story short.... we bought a fresh water CD33 (as soon as I could get around in a brace) have been sailing it and enjoying it for three years, and couldn't be more satisfied. We have desided the CD36 is more boat than we need and so are upgrading the 33 with the money we saved and will take our grand retirement adventure with it! We still have the 25D, loved it too much to part with it. Dennis, CD33 #41, WindWard Grace

So here's the question -- what should the next boat be? Option One is to purchase a CD 30, 31, or 33, as an intermediate step, and take the big plunge for the "best and final" boat in a decade or so. Option two is to take the bigger step now, purchase the boat I would hope to take the ultimate powder on, get used to it over a longer period, upgrade it as necessary spreading the cost over the years. The most likely culprit for Option Two would be a Hans Christian 38. I recognized that this may not be the best choice for Bay sailing (particularly in the dog days of August). I also recognize that the suggestion of purchasing something other than a Cape Dory may offend some, but at least I didn't mention another "H" boat (rhymes with "punter"). Of course, there is a third option, keep the CD 25 for another ten years. With regard to this latter option, my heart is in it, but by back and wife are not.

Any guidance from those who have considered this or similar issues (and have actually made a decision), would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Brett

[John R.]

Dennis,

I get the lesson here, as well as the suggestion of others that 10 years is a long way off and much can happen in between. Your back story resonates with me, as I broke my collar bone (really badly) playing hockey in December. It's been a real slog, but its sloooooooooooooooowly getting better. I don't think it will effect my long-term sailing activities (although it scared the @?% out of me) but I'll never be 100%. I consider it a friendly reminder that no one knows what lurks around the corner and it has prompted me to take some action to put the master plan into effect (thus, my earlier post) while I can.

Thanks to others for their input as well. I like the compromise approach (a 33, whether it be HC or CD, and keep the 25!).

Best, Brett

I am confronting a dilemma that I am fairly certain may of you have faced and I would greatly appreciate any insight my fellow Cape Dory owners can provide. Here's the background. I have been the proud owner of a CD 25 (No. 669) for about four years. As great as the boat is (and notwithstanding all of the blood, sweat, tears, and CASH I have poured into making it better than perfect), my 6'3" frame is beginning to retaliate from years of abuse and insists on more space. I am working on a 10 to 15 year plan which hopefully will culminate in some extended cruising. In the meantime, my sailing activities will be limited to weekend cruising on the Chesapeake, with an occasionally foray beyond.

Brett, Four years ago I was happy with my CD25D and looking forward to retirement and a CD36 in 5 or 6 years. Then I broke my back. Recovery was slow and not 100% so I had to rethink my plan. Long story short.... we bought a fresh water CD33 (as soon as I could get around in a brace) have been sailing it and enjoying it for three years, and couldn't be more satisfied. We have desided the CD36 is more boat than we need and so are upgrading the 33 with the money we saved and will take our grand retirement adventure with it! We still have the 25D, loved it too much to part with it. Dennis, CD33 #41, WindWard Grace

So here's the question -- what should the next boat be? Option One is to purchase a CD 30, 31, or 33, as an intermediate step, and take the big plunge for the "best and final" boat in a decade or so. Option two is to take the bigger step now, purchase the boat I would hope to take the ultimate powder on, get used to it over a longer period, upgrade it as necessary spreading the cost over the years. The most likely culprit for Option Two would be a Hans Christian 38. I recognized that this may not be the best choice for Bay sailing (particularly in the dog days of August). I also recognize that the suggestion of purchasing something other than a Cape Dory may offend some, but at least I didn't mention another "H" boat (rhymes with "punter"). Of course, there is a third option, keep the CD 25 for another ten years. With regard to this latter option, my heart is in it, but by back and wife are not.

Any guidance from those who have considered this or similar issues (and have actually made a decision), would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Brett

Keep in mind the cost factors of maintenance between two boats only a few feet difference in length. It can be astonishing. Not to mention the labor. I used to own a 37 foot ketch (not CD) and the costs were terrible compared to my current CD30. Everything from
insurance,dockage,haulouts,rigging,sails,brightwork,waxing,bottom,etc,etc. The costs climb terribly.

[Olli Wendelin]

Brett,

10 year plan? Wow. In the navy we budget on 3 year cycles. Even on this short a term events usually overcome planning.

Each new boat is a learning experience. The difference between a CD25 and a CD30 (which I own) is like night and day. Space, weight, cost, complexity, speed, sail handling, steadiness. The difference is is just as great going from a 30 to 38 footer.

You can buy a CD30 for what it costs to outfit a 38 footer.

If I had the choice btw a cd30 and a Hans Christian 38 I would certainly choose the 38. If I could afford it. And had money left to spend sailing. With 10 years you could replace each system twice and become comfortable with the boat. By then you would probably also decide you need a different dream boat to go world cruising.

If buying the bigger boat makes you work longer hours to afford it, buy the smaller boat now and spend more time sailing.

Remember your boat length should match your age. More room to rest those old bones.

Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC



wendelin@spawar.navy.mil

[John Nuttall]

........but first my compliments to the other posters. Very good points and taken to heart, because I too am making that same decision. Retire and sail off into the sunset (tee hee).....

Now onto my two cents. At 6'4" a couple days without the headroom gets uncomfortable. A retirement full of it is (to me) unacceptable.

Skip over the 30 and 31. I own a CD31, and while the berths are actually quite long at 6'7", the only standing headroom for me is in the companionway. For us tall ones, standing headroom is a MAJOR consideration. I know, others do fine bending over in smaller boats, but not me.

Having been aboard both 33s & 36s I know they both have the headroom, and the berths are long enough too. I assume the 330 is the same, but I have never seen one.

And now on to the crux of the matter. GET WHAT YOU WANT !!! You'll not be satisfied with less, always second guessing your decision. I am going up to the 36. Should have done it the first time. Don't get me wrong here, I love my 31, and I'll have her a while longer. It's just that hindsight IS 20/20....

Oh there have been lots of well reasoned logical posts about the differences between the 33 & 36. Lots of arguements about the extra cost. So what! Just work harder, invest smarter, feed the dog cheaper food......

Remember this. You don't HAVE to equip your boat with every dogone gizmo everybody else seems to, hell in 10 years todays gizmos are going to be passe and obsolete junk anyway.

Less is more.

Put your money into: Good basic sails. Quality self steering. Good rigging. You don't need Iridium (it'll be bankrupt by then anyway). You don't need GPS (that will be on your watch, come to think of it Casio's already done that!) You don't need Radar. You don't need much.

It's a fact that crusiers spend the majority of their time on the hook, and little of it passagemaking. Soooo....put your money into the things that will make the day to day life more enjoyable. Cooking. Ventilation. Bimini. Good dink. etc. etc. etc

But above it all, it's the passion and the excitement and the allure that fuels our obsession (yes you are obsessed Dorians!). And
I have always remembered something Don Casey wrote in Good Old Boat. "Get the one that makes your heart go pit-a-pat", and for me it's the 36..... That boat is absolutely beautiful....

Fair Winds and 'Gluck
John Nuttall
s/v Aimless
CD31
Oriental, NC



aimless@nc.rr.com

[Bob Malinka]

This is great board for exchanging information. Good advice John I could not agree with you more. I am also 6'4" and while we have had Ranger (a '84 CD25D) since 1986, and still do enjoy her good sailing attributes, over the long term I to see myself moving into the 33 or 36 range. We belong to the local cruising club here, the South Bay Cruising Club(SBCC), on the Great South Bay, LI., NY., and many of our friends are already retired into 35 to 40' sailboats. So this has given us first hand experience on what works and what doesn't work. I have also had the experience of being a helmsman on several 40+ sailboats while racing and there is a world of difference between the 33 to 36 versus the 40+ size. The big factor here is the cost considerations in maintaining a boat that size. Costs of sails, hardware, paint and supplies go up alot, which makes owning a 25 as we do now look very inexpensive and reasonable bang for the buck. However, logic would dictate that somewhere in between 33 and 36' is the right size for day to day living aboard without running up your bills. For the long term I would say I have my eyes on one of the follow boats for cruising: CD33 or CD36, Crealock 37 or possibly the Cabo Rico 38, which maybe a little on the outside of the right size and cost ratio. All these boats are well designed and come from two reputable naval architects Mssrs: Carl Alberg and W.I.B. Crealock.

BTW one of our accomplished SBCC members, Eric Forsyth, with several circumnavigations already under his belt was just recently awarded the CCA Blue Water Award for his recent voyage to Antarctica. He is currently in the Carribean on his way back from a voyage which took him north across the Atlantic via Nova Scotia, New Foundland, Iceland and then to Norway. Then on to northern Europe down the coast to Spain, Portugal and back across the Atlantic to the Carribean. He sails a Westsail 42' and it's been almost everywhere. My hats off to you Eric where ever you happen to be now you lucky dog.

Bob



Ranger1442@hotmail.com