Genoa size for Chesapeake sailing - CD27

[csoule13]

It's the Annapolis boat show this weekend, and that means new sails for s/v Gabrielle.

Currently I have a worn out 135 up front and it works well enough. My old man has a 150 on his Ericson, and I have to say, I'm not a fan. It's too heavy for light air, and causes a great deal of excitement when the wind pipes up. Christian Williams on the Ericson boards has made repeated and passionate arguments that a 110 up front is more than enough.

That said, what say those with local knowledge? Help me spend my money!

Chris

[tjr818]

We have a very nice roller furling Mack 130 on our 27 here in the midwest. My question to you is how old are you? The 130 is great and it pulls our 27 like a freight train, but my wife, The First Mate, cannot crank it in when the wind picks up and she feels that that is her job. When younger I could single hand with our older 135, it was just as hard to crank in, especially while trying to finish the tack with the tiller between my legs as I bent my younger back over to the genoa winch. I cannot do that any more. Only you can say how fit you are, but keep that in mind.

[fmueller]

I had a high cut 115% made for Jerezana by North Sails three years ago. It has Norths bolt rope furling assists sewn into the luff (three 3/8" ropes of varying length). It keeps acceptable shape at what looks to me like 100% equivalent - partly because smaller sails just don't have as much belly to start with, and the bolt ropes seem to work really nicely - better than foam luff tape.

Probably about the same sail area as a more normal 110 because of the hi cut, and no need really to change block position when you roll it in because of the high clew. Easier to see under.

At 12 knots true Jerezana will do 5.4 - 6.0 knots at 35-40 deg apparent, and on any kind of reach, she will basically be at hull speed at something over 6 knots. At 15 knots I'm beginning to think of a reef in the main because the boat is just not going to go any faster. At closer to 20 knots I'll roll the 115 in to about 105% and keep 1 reef in the main and the boat is pretty tough like this ...

If it is really fresh at something over 20 steadily I'll douse the main and just sail on the jib, and the boat is surprisingly balanced, but harder to tack and not as good on the wind mostly because it seems to have a lot more leeway just under jib - if I really had to go to windward in 20 + knots, I might put in the second reef in the main, and keep the jib at about 105% - but mostly I'm not too keen on being out anyway. Haven't gotten to the second reef yet this summer ... only once last summer.

I don't think I need more sail than that. I have an older, but still serviceable, 135 - but it just becomes way more than I want to handle in 15 knots true, and in a 20 knot breeze you really can't roll it up enough without it becoming just a bag.

What I actually think I really want is a well done "working" jib that sheets thru the coach roof blocks/tracks ... I think this is what Mr Alberg had in mind when he designed our boats actually - and I might not be as adverse to 20+ knot days if I had one. I think a working jib might make me a somewhat more courageous sailor.

That said, I realize Chesapeake Bay and Narragansett Bay are not the same animal ... we get some pretty good wind up here, especially starting about now ...

[csoule13]

That said, I realize Chesapeake Bay and Narragansett Bay are not the same animal ... we get some pretty good wind up here, especially starting about now ...

That's the rub, though, right? I don't have high hopes for my boat in under 7 or 8 knots without a dedicated light wind sail, which is out of scope for the moment. On the Chesapeake, espcially my part of it, you are very likely to be dealing with 10 kts or less more times than not, especially during the summer.

Tim, point taken. I'm probably on the younger side of the board, and find handling the current sails involves a more than acceptable level of effort.

[tjr818]

...Tim, point taken. I'm probably on the younger side of the board, and find handling the current sails involves a more than acceptable level of effort.

Here in the Midwest most summer days we are happy to have 7-8 kts, often we have less. I think I would go with the 135 and a whisker pole for those down wind runs. I always wanted to have a nylon asymmetric for those really light days. I think you will be surprised at how well the 27 will ghost along in a steady light breeze. Best of luck.

[gates_cliff]

Chris

I added roller furling and a new jib 3 years ago. Using advice from this forum and concurrence from the sailmaker, I went with 130. I'm happy I did. I single hand most of the time and have learned to be conservative. I doubt I'd have ever used all of the 150.

BTW, I dealt with Bacon sails in Annapolis and found them to be reasonable and did a good job.

[csoule13]

Chris

I added roller furling and a new jib 3 years ago. Using advice from this forum and concurrence from the sailmaker, I went with 130. I'm happy I did. I single hand most of the time and have learned to be conservative. I doubt I'd have ever used all of the 150.

BTW, I dealt with Bacon sails in Annapolis and found them to be reasonable and did a good job.

Bacon is likely my vendor of choice, and they're running a boat show deal, too. Guy I spoke with their a few weeks ago owns a CD26, so we're dealing with someone who knows the local waters and these boats. Very good.

[Bibster]

Chris

I added roller furling and a new jib 3 years ago. Using advice from this forum and concurrence from the sailmaker, I went with 130. I'm happy I did. I single hand most of the time and have learned to be conservative. I doubt I'd have ever used all of the 150.

BTW, I dealt with Bacon sails in Annapolis and found them to be reasonable and did a good job.

Bacon is likely my vendor of choice, and they're running a boat show deal, too. Guy I spoke with their a few weeks ago owns a CD26, so we're dealing with someone who knows the local waters and these boats. Very good.

I happen to be the guy referenced above. I concur with the opinion that a 130 to 135% sail would be the optimal choice for sailing in the Bay. If you have spent much time in these waters, you know that we get very light winds (or no wind at all) during the summer, so no sail is going to take you very far, very fast. But, something in the 135% range is a good compromise, especially if you have roller furling and can reef when the wind starts to pick up. I work part-time at Bacon Sails for fun (and discounts!) and I can vouch for the quality of the sails, which are made in the same factory that supplies sails for Quantum, North and a few other big names. By the way, I started working there after I had bought a mainsail for my CD26 and the excellent customer service and quality were what motivated me to apply for a job there after I retired from the military. Anyway, they are offering a 20 percent discount on new sail orders taken during the boat show, so your cost for a coastal grade 135% roller furling genoa would be roughly $1227.00. If you decided to upgrade to an offshore-grade sail the cost would be approximately $1506.00. If you are interested in talking to them, they will have a booth in Tent C. Talk to Gary and tell him the guy with the Cape Dory 26 sent you!

[Carl Thunberg]

Stupid question, but if you deal with light or no wind in the summer, why not go with a No. 1 (150)? You can always furl it in. Am I missing something? Is there something unique about the CD27 I don't know about?

[csoule13]

Stupid question, but if you deal with light or no wind in the summer, why not go with a No. 1 (150)? You can always furl it in. Am I missing something? Is there something unique about the CD27 I don't know about?

As mentioned in my original post, not a fan of the size of the sail, the weight of the sail, or the shape of the sail rolled up when things start to get snotty. And while a lighter weight sail cloth might help part this, I don't want to sacrifice sail life for this. I'd much rather eventually get a dedicated light wind head sail once the boat is rigged with a spin halyard.

[Bob Ohler]

When I added a 130 to our CD25D, my eyes welled up with tears of joy! I used that sail 90 percent of the time. And when needed, I took a reef in the main and all was good with the world.
This sail worked well for me on the Chesapeake Bay.

Fair winds,
Bob Ohler
CD30B
Aloha Spirit

[Warren Kaplan]

I had a Doyle 140% genny on a furlex furler. Worked just fine. And as many alluded to if the wind piped up I could always take a few rolls on my furler to reduce sail.

I found that the CD27 suffered a little from weather helm. It could become quite annoying as the wind rose. As one who sailed solo 99% of the time my favorite setup when the wind got hefty was to double reef the mainsail and then "adjust" the 140% gennys as needs be. I found my CD27 had far better helm balance and stayed on her feet while sailing very fast with that setup than I experience in normal winds under full sail

I'd consider double reefing when the wind was 15+ knots (I never rigged for a single reef because I found it next to useless on my CD27....but to each his own) and I sailed along happy as a clam perfectly balanced by tweeking the genny.

The CD27 is a honey of a sailing boat in wind above about 8-10 knots and it can be great fun if you set your sails to get he best out of her!