Adjusting seacocks.....

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

To all Captains and Commanders,

I think that I adjust the seacocks on Hanalei too tight after I clean and grease them. THE question is, how tight should they be when they are first cleaned, greased and reassembled? Should the lever arm move very easily, only slight resistance, or should they require a hefty pull to close? The subject seacocks are the original Spartan equipment. I guess I wonder if the grease alone is sufficient to seal out the water, if so, the valve should be very easy to move. I just hate it when we sail into a harbor and I have to stand on the holding tank thru hull to close it!

What do all of you do to adjust them properly? Any comments would be appreciated......

Dave Stump
captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

[Neil Gordon]

They can be fairly loose and still keep the water out. When maintained, greased and worked once in a while, they turn easily... the weight of the handle is almost enough to close the seacock. I prefer just a little tighter than that.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Ken Coit]

Dave,

I think I have something from Spartan on this at home. A rough summary goes something like this: they need to be tight enough to remain in position under vibration and loose enough that you can open/close them fairly easily by hand. I understand that if the barrel is properly lapped in, they won't leak. The grease does provide the seal, so getting them too tight will minimize the grease, increase wear, and increase the difficulty of operating them. Someone on the board recently recommended MOREY'S RED "EP" #3209 grease from NAPA auto parts that sounds excellent. See the rest of the post at http://www.toolworks.com/capedory/bboar ... 23615.html.

I hope this gets you started.

Ken

To all Captains and Commanders,

I think that I adjust the seacocks on Hanalei too tight after I clean and grease them. THE question is, how tight should they be when they are first cleaned, greased and reassembled? Should the lever arm move very easily, only slight resistance, or should they require a hefty pull to close? The subject seacocks are the original Spartan equipment. I guess I wonder if the grease alone is sufficient to seal out the water, if so, the valve should be very easy to move. I just hate it when we sail into a harbor and I have to stand on the holding tank thru hull to close it!

What do all of you do to adjust them properly? Any comments would be appreciated......

Dave Stump
captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

parfait@nc.rr.com

[matt Cawthorne]

Dave,
I am not certain if I go too far in the other direction, but I follow the rule that if it can't easily be operated with one finger then it is too tight. The one exception is the engine intake as it could be a real problem if it were to vibrate shut. If a seacock gets over tightened while assembling the unit it gets completely disassembled and re-greased. My reason is that if you tighten it too much and squeeze the grease out it will not necessarily squeeze back in when loosened. It takes a few attempts at the first seacock each spring to get the feel just right, but the rest go quick. A trick that is useful is to get the first nut about right, but a little on the loose side. Put the lock nut on and snug it against the first nut. Now finish adjusting the seacock by turning the lock nut (it rotates both nuts). This keeps you from overtightening the seacock when you apply the lock nut. Finish of by checking that the lock nut is tight enough against the first nut.

I never have had one close on me due to being set too loose.


Matt



mcawthor@bellatlantic.net

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

It is as I thought, I had them tightened too much! I will use the red grease this weekend when I redo all five of them. Thanks again for your help....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

[Leo MacDonald Heather Ann]

Hi Dave,

My caution is not to have it too loose. The first year with Heather Ann, I did have the engine supply seacock too loose AND it did vibrate closed.

Fair Winds,
Leo MacDonald, Heather Ann CD30K



macdore@aol.com

[John R.]

To all Captains and Commanders,

I think that I adjust the seacocks on Hanalei too tight after I clean and grease them. THE question is, how tight should they be when they are first cleaned, greased and reassembled? Should the lever arm move very easily, only slight resistance, or should they require a hefty pull to close? The subject seacocks are the original Spartan equipment. I guess I wonder if the grease alone is sufficient to seal out the water, if so, the valve should be very easy to move. I just hate it when we sail into a harbor and I have to stand on the holding tank thru hull to close it!

What do all of you do to adjust them properly? Any comments would be appreciated......

Dave Stump
captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

Ken and Neils descriptions are right on the mark. Just keep in mind that the more you tighten the less lubrication you will have. You should be able to open and close them with just a couple of fingers and with some resistance. They should be silky smooth. The engine raw water seacock needs to be slightly firmer because you don't want vibration moving that seacock handle to a somewhat closed position. Generally I set them all with the least amount of tension necessary and then see if there is any seepage. If so, I tighten the minimum necessary to eliminate the seepage. This is where the proper grease makes all the difference in the world. Some grease has less body than other grease even though they are waterproof. Waterproof grease does not mean it stays in place. The Spartan grease is pretty good stuff, I think it is lanolin based like Lanocote, which is also good stuff. I've tried all kinds of grease over many years and have been using Morey's Red from Napa ever since I discovered it. It's cheap, it's tenacious and it makes a seacock silky smooth.

The fit and condition of the barrel and plug is extremely important. Use two different grades of valve lapping compound and seat the two seacock components together using a good smear of each compound one at a time, the coarse one first, obviously. Assemble the seacock and rotate the handle around and around many times, gradually tighten the plug retaining nut while doing this drawing the plug in tighter. Take apart and wash everything in kerosene. Repeat everything with the finer compound and clean again. Dry everything and then grease and reassemble. Experience will eventually dictate the correct adjustment, it's a matter of feel and judgement. That's why some folks get short service time and others get longer service periods. Technique and experience is it in a nutshell.

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

John,

I stopped at NAPA lsat night to buy the Morey's "Red" grease, but all they had was another brand of "Red" grease in a cartridge. Do you know if the Morey's stuff is still sold by NAPA? Got any suggestions of what to do if I can't find it?

I'm off to Hanalie in about an hour or so, so would appreciate a quick answer...

Dave Stump

[John R.]

John,

I stopped at NAPA lsat night to buy the Morey's "Red" grease, but all they had was another brand of "Red" grease in a cartridge. Do you know if the Morey's stuff is still sold by NAPA? Got any suggestions of what to do if I can't find it?

I'm off to Hanalie in about an hour or so, so would appreciate a quick answer...

Dave Stump

Dave,

Yes it is, here's the exact description of the grease and it does come in a standard cartridge: Moreys Red "EP" #3209

One thing about NAPA is that all stores do not seem to keep the same stuff in stock on the shelves. Try a different store or have them look it up in their catalog book. Every store around here has it on the shelf. Try a larger NAPA store if you have one near you. If I get a chance I'll stop by NAPA and get additional info on it for you, I don't have the original cartridge. I take the grease out and throw the cartridge away so I can't give you any additional product ID numbers etc at this moment.

[Ken Coit]

I was puttering around at home, not on the boat, and pulled my new 1 1/4 inch sea valves (Spartan's term) off the shelf to see how easily they worked. Mind you, these have been on a couple shelves over several years, but never on a boat. One turned just fine, maybe a bit too easily. The other was "frozen." After backing off the nuts,I had to tap the shaft fairly hard to free up the barrel. I took some of the Spartan grease that had been scraped into the hole and spread it around the barrel, and reassembled the sea valve. Assembled so that it works smoothly, it is possible to push on the barrel and compress the grease so that the valve will jam until the pressure is released. I guess it doesn't take much imagination to realize what a partial turn on the flange nut can do. I would think that an even heavier grease would provide more clearance between the mating parts and also make the precision of the barrel fit less critical. I may run some more experiments with various greases to see if there is one that can't be compressed by a little arm pressure. Morey's Red EP is on the list, any other suggestions? Lithium-based wheel bearing grease?

Oh, it also occured to me that a large cable tie looped loosely around the hose could be dropped over the valve handle to keep it in the open position should your valve be wonderfully easy to operate. I think the loose tie might need to be fastened to the hose (with another tie?) so it wouldn't slide down and become ineffective, but it could give a bit of assurance, especially on the raw water intake.

Ken Coit
S/V Parfait
Raleigh, NC
where the birds are building their nests and the dogwoods are about to bloom

John,

I stopped at NAPA lsat night to buy the Morey's "Red" grease, but all they had was another brand of "Red" grease in a cartridge. Do you know if the Morey's stuff is still sold by NAPA? Got any suggestions of what to do if I can't find it?

I'm off to Hanalie in about an hour or so, so would appreciate a quick answer...

Dave Stump

Dave,

Yes it is, here's the exact description of the grease and it does come in a standard cartridge: Moreys Red "EP" #3209

One thing about NAPA is that all stores do not seem to keep the same stuff in stock on the shelves. Try a different store or have them look it up in their catalog book. Every store around here has it on the shelf. Try a larger NAPA store if you have one near you. If I get a chance I'll stop by NAPA and get additional info on it for you, I don't have the original cartridge. I take the grease out and throw the cartridge away so I can't give you any additional product ID numbers etc at this moment.

parfait@nc.rr.com

[John R.]

You couldn't be more correct that the grease is sooooooo very important. Morey's Red is very tenacious, it is stringy if you touch it and pull your finger away. All other greases I have ever tried just lift a very little where you touch them, Morey's will cling to your finger as you pull it away. That "clinging" characteristic is ideal in a seacock situation, it stays put over the entire surface as long as the mating surfaces of the plug and barrel are fair to each other, not uneven in any location around their entire mating circumference. The key with plug/barrel seacocks as you've discovered is to allow the grease to create a gap filling water stop layer between the two parts, not just act as a lubricant.

With inferior greases the gap filling need is not met nor maintained for any lengthly period and so the plug must be tightened down deeper into the barrel to minimize the gap (stopping water seepage) and thus reducing the available sealing and lubricant even further. With minimal grease on the mating surfaces corrosion then becomes an additional issue and the entire situation simply worsens from then on.
Don't waste your time with any lithium wheel bearing grease, it won't last. If you come across dense lanolin based greases you might give them a try, be sure they are impervious to salt water. Lanocote by Forespar works but it still is lacking in the "cling" factor for seacock use. Same for Spartans grease and other "seacock greases".
There may be industrial duty marine greases that would perform well such as what they might use around marine construction sites on equipment etc.,. Just keep your eyes and ears open and on the look out. Try the Morey's I think you will see what I'm talking about.

I was puttering around at home, not on the boat, and pulled my new 1 1/4 inch sea valves (Spartan's term) off the shelf to see how easily they worked. Mind you, these have been on a couple shelves over several years, but never on a boat. One turned just fine, maybe a bit too easily. The other was "frozen." After backing off the nuts,I had to tap the shaft fairly hard to free up the barrel. I took some of the Spartan grease that had been scraped into the hole and spread it around the barrel, and reassembled the sea valve. Assembled so that it works smoothly, it is possible to push on the barrel and compress the grease so that the valve will jam until the pressure is released. I guess it doesn't take much imagination to realize what a partial turn on the flange nut can do. I would think that an even heavier grease would provide more clearance between the mating parts and also make the precision of the barrel fit less critical. I may run some more experiments with various greases to see if there is one that can't be compressed by a little arm pressure. Morey's Red EP is on the list, any other suggestions? Lithium-based wheel bearing grease?

Oh, it also occured to me that a large cable tie looped loosely around the hose could be dropped over the valve handle to keep it in the open position should your valve be wonderfully easy to operate. I think the loose tie might need to be fastened to the hose (with another tie?) so it wouldn't slide down and become ineffective, but it could give a bit of assurance, especially on the raw water intake.

Ken Coit
S/V Parfait
Raleigh, NC
where the birds are building their nests and the dogwoods are about to bloom

John,

I stopped at NAPA lsat night to buy the Morey's "Red" grease, but all they had was another brand of "Red" grease in a cartridge. Do you know if the Morey's stuff is still sold by NAPA? Got any suggestions of what to do if I can't find it?

I'm off to Hanalie in about an hour or so, so would appreciate a quick answer...

Dave Stump

Dave,

Yes it is, here's the exact description of the grease and it does come in a standard cartridge: Moreys Red "EP" #3209

One thing about NAPA is that all stores do not seem to keep the same stuff in stock on the shelves. Try a different store or have them look it up in their catalog book. Every store around here has it on the shelf. Try a larger NAPA store if you have one near you. If I get a chance I'll stop by NAPA and get additional info on it for you, I don't have the original cartridge. I take the grease out and throw the cartridge away so I can't give you any additional product ID numbers etc at this moment.