Cape Dory 33 Sailing/Perfomance Characteristics

[Don Fleming]

I presently own a Cape Dory 27 and am thinking of moving up to a 33. Would appreciate any feedback/comparisons regarding performance, offshore capability, positives, drawbacks, etc. from present/past owners. When I bought my 27, three years ago, my research led me to two brokers who were former Cape Dory new boat dealers. To my surprise, they both independently claimed that the 27 and the 33 were the two best sailing models of the entire fleet. Would appreciate confirmation and/or debate.

[Russell]

I think it is indicative that Andy Vavolitis still builds the CD 36, as the new Robinhood 36. And with the 36, you get a real V berth. Of course, I'm biased.

[Larry DeMers]

So you are selling it? heh..well, I own a CD30, and can tell you that we use the Vberth an average of 110 nights a year. This year will be double that! I love that Vberth better than my waterbed at home! I don't know how much is due to the water, the lifestyle change, or just plain loving my boat..but there is nothing wrong with the smaller vberths like our CD30's.

To stay in the mood you set..the CD30 was Carl Albergs design for his personal retirement boat with his wife. It went so well that they built around 400 of the critters.

There is a pernicious move underway in the world today. This move seems to make it seem that if you don't have a 35-45 ft. boat, you are deficient in some hormone or something. The truth is that larger boats take more of your cruising kitty, equipment budget and insurance and docking money. In our marina, the difference between a 12x24 dock and a 14x32 dock is $2500/year. Thats the start of it only.
Cruising friends of 25 years just returned after 5 years in the Carribean aboard their Columbia 35, and they report an annual cruising budget of $20k was used! Thats $100k/5 yrs. folks! On the other side of the fence, the son of our marina owner took 2 years off and cruised from Superior to Cuba..on $12k/yr. Real numbers..real recent..and really real.
Lin and Larry Pardey set the tone for cruising in the 70's, 80's and 90's with their Saraffyn of Victoria and now Taleisin. Both are under 30 ft. (without sprit of course), engineless, and wildly succesful!

Point is that there is a 25D out there in the Caribbean, reported by two separate parties in the past two days. there is a CD30 heading to the Azores from the east coast. There will be a CD30 (mine) doing 2000+ miles this summer on Superior's north shore..75-100 miles from the nearest town..but 10 ft. from the nearest moose, wolf, caribbou or bald eagle, and Lake Huron's North Channel/Georgian Bay.
These boats are darn tough folks..tougher than you and I are probably..;^) Use your heads, rig her right, learn her habits and talents, make everything seamanlike and you will have no problems..just adventures.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Oi! The Snow! +14" last night..~~~~

I think it is indicative that Andy Vavolitis still builds the CD 36, as the new Robinhood 36. And with the 36, you get a real V berth. Of course, I'm biased.

demers@sgi.com

[Russell]

The difference between the CD 33 and CD 36 is pretty small. My comment was in reference to where that changes the interior: the CD 33 has a partial V berth. Unlike the CD 30, the CD 31, the CD 32, the CD 330, and the CD 36. I don't know why it deviates from the pattern. Of course, you can make an insert for the seat, if the previous owner has not already done so.

CD 30s are fine boats. I think they are a bit small for two, but I know couples who sail on smaller. In terms of ongoing costs, I doubt the CD 36 is going to break the bank. Though the initial purchase will be more. You say there is a $2500 difference between small and large slips where you sail? DIFFERENCE?!? That's quite a bit. Our slip is $2200 a year.

If we used our V berth 110 nights a year, we wouldn't be selling. Unfortunately, our careers are keeping us away from the boat, and it is going to get worse in the year to come. She is too nice a boat to let her go unsailed. I would rather sell her to someone who will use her more, and buy another boat some time down the line.

BTW, I've enjoyed your posts here, about DeLaMer.

[Ken Coit]

$2500 difference and 14" of snow? Makes me even more pleased that we moved to NC in 1985. We rent our slip for $2400 a year, use it 52 weeks and had no where near 14" of snow for the whole season. I hope I didn't say that too soon, but it was 72F here yesterday.

I do envy you the heavy duty wildlife. We have to settle for bear and cougar as our exotics.

Ken

So you are selling it? heh..well, I own a CD30, and can tell you that we use the Vberth an average of 110 nights a year. This year will be double that! I love that Vberth better than my waterbed at home! I don't know how much is due to the water, the lifestyle change, or just plain loving my boat..but there is nothing wrong with the smaller vberths like our CD30's.

To stay in the mood you set..the CD30 was Carl Albergs design for his personal retirement boat with his wife. It went so well that they built around 400 of the critters.

There is a pernicious move underway in the world today. This move seems to make it seem that if you don't have a 35-45 ft. boat, you are deficient in some hormone or something. The truth is that larger boats take more of your cruising kitty, equipment budget and insurance and docking money. In our marina, the difference between a 12x24 dock and a 14x32 dock is $2500/year. Thats the start of it only.
Cruising friends of 25 years just returned after 5 years in the Carribean aboard their Columbia 35, and they report an annual cruising budget of $20k was used! Thats $100k/5 yrs. folks! On the other side of the fence, the son of our marina owner took 2 years off and cruised from Superior to Cuba..on $12k/yr. Real numbers..real recent..and really real.
Lin and Larry Pardey set the tone for cruising in the 70's, 80's and 90's with their Saraffyn of Victoria and now Taleisin. Both are under 30 ft. (without sprit of course), engineless, and wildly succesful!

Point is that there is a 25D out there in the Caribbean, reported by two separate parties in the past two days. there is a CD30 heading to the Azores from the east coast. There will be a CD30 (mine) doing 2000+ miles this summer on Superior's north shore..75-100 miles from the nearest town..but 10 ft. from the nearest moose, wolf, caribbou or bald eagle, and Lake Huron's North Channel/Georgian Bay.
These boats are darn tough folks..tougher than you and I are probably..;^) Use your heads, rig her right, learn her habits and talents, make everything seamanlike and you will have no problems..just adventures.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Oi! The Snow! +14" last night..~~~~

I think it is indicative that Andy Vavolitis still builds the CD 36, as the new Robinhood 36. And with the 36, you get a real V berth. Of course, I'm biased.

parfait@nc.rr.com

[Larry DeMers]

Don't misunderstand my message guys..the CD36 IS a wonderful boat, and if finances allowed it..go for it undoubtedly. But do not set this up in your head as a MUST HAVE or else situation.

I have been toying with moving up to a 330 or 36 for the past 4+years! As my daughter said a few weeks back.."Dad, you guys will never sell DeLaMer..you love her too much!" I don't know if it is the momentum of 12 years of ownership, or the idea of being faithful to your boat (huh?), or just plain laziness, but I am about 95% satisfied with the CD30 as a crusiing boat (and within our definition of cruising too). More room would be nice..but is not necessary for us. We come from 20 years of backpacking and minimalistic living in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area of Northern Minnesota, so are used to living smaller than at home..we actually live better, but with less of a wake.

My refernce to the dockage costs on So. Lake Superior are accurate. Here are the numbers: 12x24 dock, with winter stowage, pull out fees, put in fees included = $2400. 12x36 dock, same amenities =$4900/yr.
Incredible! The fees increased about 25% when a high buck richmans condo/marina complex was built. It brought in money from Chicago and Minneapolis, and raised the rates for everyone in the area. It is refered to as the Californication of Bayfield, Wisc. to put it crudely.
But the proof is in how full these marinas are..and they are full up! There is an excess of money out there these days, and it is being felt everywhere..this is just one example. Another would be a 50-100% increase in the realestate values and a parallel increase in realestate taxes in this area..in one year.

I sympathize with you guys about having to jump out of your 36, but sometimes things go a different direction, and the only choice is to follow the course. It would be painful, and I know I would feel lost. I can only hope that it does not happen to me for a long time to come, although we have dodged that bullet at elast once already (loss of a 25 year job and house, out of state move to get re-employed in my field as a EE designing supercomputer clocking systems and I/O). whew..long letter..

Good Luck with your new path, and come on back when it's possible. Remember that the Wind is Free, and will be there for you when you return.

Best of Luck,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

The difference between the CD 33 and CD 36 is pretty small. My comment was in reference to where that changes the interior: the CD 33 has a partial V berth. Unlike the CD 30, the CD 31, the CD 32, the CD 330, and the CD 36. I don't know why it deviates from the pattern. Of course, you can make an insert for the seat, if the previous owner has not already done so.

CD 30s are fine boats. I think they are a bit small for two, but I know couples who sail on smaller. In terms of ongoing costs, I doubt the CD 36 is going to break the bank. Though the initial purchase will be more. You say there is a $2500 difference between small and large slips where you sail? DIFFERENCE?!? That's quite a bit. Our slip is $2200 a year.

If we used our V berth 110 nights a year, we wouldn't be selling. Unfortunately, our careers are keeping us away from the boat, and it is going to get worse in the year to come. She is too nice a boat to let her go unsailed. I would rather sell her to someone who will use her more, and buy another boat some time down the line.

BTW, I've enjoyed your posts here, about DeLaMer.

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

Well, I am envious of just about everyone else on this board. You guys get to boat longer than we do usually, and this year is particularly bad..we are up to 72in. of snow for the year..almost 20 in. above average. This last 14 incher was not greated with smiles by the populace here though. I think the weatherfolk are taking armed guards along with them to work! hee..

Hey. I'll trade a 3 day weekend with anyone that can send 72deg. up here for a day!

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

$2500 difference and 14" of snow? Makes me even more pleased that we moved to NC in 1985. We rent our slip for $2400 a year, use it 52 weeks and had no where near 14" of snow for the whole season. I hope I didn't say that too soon, but it was 72F here yesterday.

I do envy you the heavy duty wildlife. We have to settle for bear and cougar as our exotics.

Ken

So you are selling it? heh..well, I own a CD30, and can tell you that we use the Vberth an average of 110 nights a year. This year will be double that! I love that Vberth better than my waterbed at home! I don't know how much is due to the water, the lifestyle change, or just plain loving my boat..but there is nothing wrong with the smaller vberths like our CD30's.

To stay in the mood you set..the CD30 was Carl Albergs design for his personal retirement boat with his wife. It went so well that they built around 400 of the critters.

There is a pernicious move underway in the world today. This move seems to make it seem that if you don't have a 35-45 ft. boat, you are deficient in some hormone or something. The truth is that larger boats take more of your cruising kitty, equipment budget and insurance and docking money. In our marina, the difference between a 12x24 dock and a 14x32 dock is $2500/year. Thats the start of it only.
Cruising friends of 25 years just returned after 5 years in the Carribean aboard their Columbia 35, and they report an annual cruising budget of $20k was used! Thats $100k/5 yrs. folks! On the other side of the fence, the son of our marina owner took 2 years off and cruised from Superior to Cuba..on $12k/yr. Real numbers..real recent..and really real.
Lin and Larry Pardey set the tone for cruising in the 70's, 80's and 90's with their Saraffyn of Victoria and now Taleisin. Both are under 30 ft. (without sprit of course), engineless, and wildly succesful!

Point is that there is a 25D out there in the Caribbean, reported by two separate parties in the past two days. there is a CD30 heading to the Azores from the east coast. There will be a CD30 (mine) doing 2000+ miles this summer on Superior's north shore..75-100 miles from the nearest town..but 10 ft. from the nearest moose, wolf, caribbou or bald eagle, and Lake Huron's North Channel/Georgian Bay.
These boats are darn tough folks..tougher than you and I are probably..;^) Use your heads, rig her right, learn her habits and talents, make everything seamanlike and you will have no problems..just adventures.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Oi! The Snow! +14" last night..~~~~

I think it is indicative that Andy Vavolitis still builds the CD 36, as the new Robinhood 36. And with the 36, you get a real V berth. Of course, I'm biased.

demers@sgi.com

[Ryan Turner]

I love the 36 and would have one in a heartbeat if i could afford it. Springing for a 33 was hard enough but for boats in similar condition a 36 will cost lots more. Just check out the prices. A 33 has plenty of room for extended cruising. Also, they sail beautifully -- especially offshore where they really come alive when the wind picks up.



rdtsails@email.msn.com

[Michael Heintz]

Want a 30 foot CD with the room of a 35, just have a look at the MKII, increased beam to 10,6 wow, as discribed in the sales lit, 35% more room than the standard CD 30.



mzenith@aol.com

[Rich]

...and if you want a slip in the Twin Cities metro area...I paid $2,860 last year for a 10x24 slip, including haul out, etc. I'm told that's a good deal, if you can find a slip available. I think the wait for a slip in Lake City, MN is 4+ years. The upside is I'm 20 minutes from the boat and it's fresh water.

Rich (miss my boat) Passmore
CD26 "Shearwater"



rpassmore42@hotmail.com

[Mott Blair]

My wife and I started out in a CD 25 and I feel in love with her at first site (the Cape Dory 25). We kept having children and so we moved up to a Cape Dory 30 (now with 3 children-and you think it is crowded with just two adults Larry)we are likely moving up again. We have looked at several 36's and 33's. I would swear that the vberth in the 33 (lengthwise) is longer if not the same length as the 36. Anybody got any objective data on this crude observation of mine? I think I have got the boat problem about worked out-now where are these children coming from?



mblair@coastalnet.com

[Barry]

I choose the CD 33. When looking, the going rate for a 33 was $50K, the 36 was $80K. When I studied the boats, the big differences were actually quite small: you get an extra hanging locker, approx 1 foot, opposite the head (which is also a foot bigger), the settee was about 8" longer and the adjacent sink in the galley had a 4" back splash (the second foot), then finally, the hatch to the lazaret is larger and sits atop the transom vs the helmsman seat, also about an extra foot back there. At $10 grand a foot, I thought it was an expensive locker & back splash, as for the trunk space, I figured I'd live. The "real" difference, I think, would be the fact that the 36 has three more feet of keel. This translates directly to lateral tracking - a big deal if you're crossing an ocean.

I know that it's the little things (I'm sure "real" sailors would pay anything for an extra locker) that make the big differences, but it wouldn't pan out the way I use the boat.

Barry

[mike]

I've downsized, through several boats to the 33.

With over 10,000nm, in the past 3 years, I couldn't ask for a finer handling, strong sailing vessel.

Some very hard weather (open ocean seas to 35', winds to 70kts) and a few serious knocks only tested her sailing abilities and each time she came shining through. Properly prepared for offshore sailing, she's a solid dependable offshore cruiser that will bring you to safe harbour.

Experience has shown she's the last boat for me and I intend to take her anywhere.

Can you tell I'm pro 33,



mpr@seascan.com