CD25d Raising the height of the boom

[Bob Lascelles]

Looking for some collective wisdom....
Vindolanda, is getting a dodger. To make the dodger high enough so old clumsy (and comfort loving) me won’t be banging my head all the time, the boom will need to go up a little. I’ve resigned myself to raising the gooseneck bracket and either recutting my existing sail or getting a new mainsail. I think raising the boom 4-6” will give plenty of clearance when close hauled, with the sail flattened.

I’ve read a couple of old threads on the site about the topic, but my question are not about whether to raise the boom, they’re about how high...... Some of the pictures I’ve seen on the web of 25d’s with dodgers look like the booms have been raised about 12-15 inches. Could this create Lee helm? Is there a good reason to raise the boom higher than the minimum necessary to just clear the dodger? I don’t want to muck up her balance, but I can see having the boom above head height might be desirable.

Thanks for any suggestions

Bob

[mgphl52]

Hi Bob,
A good friend of mine did exactly what you are proposing to his CD25D. His name is also Bob and he's about 6' 3" or so. While he didn't add a dodger, he did want standing head room under his bimini. I will contact Bob and ask him if he remembers how high he raised the goose neck. I do recall that Hunky Dory did not have lee helm.
Roberto may be able to chime in as well because he checked out Hunk Dory when he was boat shopping a bunch of years ago.

-michael

[mgphl52]

Just heard back... Bob doesn't remember exactly how high other than "a bit less than a foot."

[tjr818]

Hold on, instead of raising the gooseneck we just had the mainsail recut to raise the clew 11". We left the gooseneck in the original location, this would result in raising the boom your 4-6" at the dodger. On Slainte, our 27, the boom is 11' long, raising the clew 11" resulted in a 5 sq. ft. reduction in the total sail area, but it leaves the luff the original length so performance is hardly affected.
Something else to consider. Talk to anyone who has removed the gooseneck and ask them how it went.

[steveg]

Hi Bob,

I built a dodger last winter. The boat was in the barn at the time and it was necessary to rely on my rough measurements taken just before the boat was hauled out. After it was constructed but not installed, I was concerned that the boom would hit it. I was worried that the boom may need to be raised and the sail shortened. Ultimately, it was decided to move the boom up just a couple of inches, which hopefully would not require any alteration of the sail and still give adequate clearance. I removed the goose neck, an impact driver is highly recommended. The goose neck fitting was moved up so the bottom two holes were where the top two had been. It seemed like just about the right compromise. It all worked out pretty well. There was no need to shorten the sail and enough room under the dodger for going in and out of the cabin. It just depends on how much height do you require whether you will need to raise the boom more and shorten the sail.

It was an excellent improvement. Here are some pictures which give you an idea of what it looks like. The last one, in the barn, does not have the side curtains zipped on so you can see the strap.

The dodger is short enough that I can see over it when I choose to do so. It is preferable at times to not have to see through the window when you want to get a good look at something.

[steveg]

I did not have any trouble removing the goose neck fitting. The impact driver and a two pound hammer were instrumental. It may have been easier than some others have experienced as the boat was never in salt water.

If you have any questions, it would be a pleasure to share my experience.

[Bob Lascelles]

Hi Michael, Tim & Steve

Great information...... Hunky Dory was one of the boats I saw on the internet. Thank you so much Michael for contacting Bob to confirm my guesstimate of about 12”. It’s good to know that change didn’t give her Lee helm. I don’t have to worry about 6’3” clearance, but extra head clearance could be really nice.

Tim your experience with just raising the leech is pretty interesting. Looking at the slotted 5/16 machine screws in Vindolanda’s gooseneck bracket, (that have been there for 35 years), not removing them has a lot to be said for it! The boom on the 25d is just a little shorter than the one on your CD27. I didn’t know you could raise the leech by as much as 11” and not affect sail shape, good to know......
Steve thanks for the pictures! Your dodger came out great, I’m really looking forward to the extra spray protection, and being able to keep the companionway open at anchor when it’s raining. You mentioned needing an impact driver to get the screws out of the mast, so I’m guessing they weren’t easy to get out. Not visiting the sailmaker is pretty attractive. But my dodger is 62” from the cockpit floor, (I was hoping to keep it to 60”, but it grew a little), so I don’t know if I could get away with only raising the boom a couple of inches.

Like I said I’m pretty klutzy, and I do like the idea of the boom being above my 5’9” head height.
Knowing that these changes won’t hurt the boat’s sailing ability is really a big relief. I think I’ll build some mock ups under the cover to help decide which one works best for me.

Thank you guys for being willing to share your knowledge. This board is one of the best things about owning a Cape Dory !

All the best
Bob

[Sea Hunt Video]

Bob L.:

I had the boom gooseneck raised exactly 12". I talked with both a very competent rigger and a UK sailmaker to make sure this would not have any significant affect on sailing characteristics, etc. Both told me it would have almost no impact at all, especially because it was along the foot of the sail that was being shortened.

Like you I am 5'9" (on my better days ). I was also adding a Bimini and did not want to have to bend over/duck while standing in the cockpit with the Bimini deployed.

I had the boom raised first and then hired a co. to measure and build a Bimini frame, etc. I recommend doing it in this order so that you can visually see and measure for the position and design of the Bimini frame.

Raising the boom 12" and adding the Bimini were two (2) of the better improvements I have made to S/V Bali Ha'i.

Good luck

Keep us posted with updates and photos.

[Bob Lascelles]

Hi Steve, nice to hear it wasn’t too bad getting the gooseneck bracket loose on your boat. Vindolanda spent 30 of her 35 years in the Great Lakes, so maybe it won’t be so bad either. I have the new dodger setup under the cover, so I’m going to make up a dummy mast and boom and experiment. I took some measurements when she was in the water, but had to order the dodger and have it fitted w/o the mast in place.

Hi Roberto ....thank you for the information about your upgrade. Since you raised the boom 12”, was your sailmaker able to modify your existing sail, or did you have a new one made? At that height it is just a little above the halyard winches, has that been ok? I like the idea of having the boom up high enough so that in the case of an operator error induced gybe (couldn’t happen of course) my head might be out of harms way and I will stop running into the darn thing in careless moments (also couldn’t happen)

I’m really looking forward to trying the dodger out. It’s not really for shade like your bimini, it’s for blocking some of the spray and cold. I’m hoping it’ll let me start a little earlier and finish the season a little later.

Fair winds
Bob

I’ll send pictures once she’s back in the water....if it ever stops snowing

[frankott3]

Hi Bob, Before you get out the tools how about coming down to my boathouse and taking measurements of my dodger frame. As I remember you're not much taller than I am, my dodger clears the boom and the boom is over my head. I'm sure that the gooseneck has never been touched like in your boat. I'll be in boston this week but will be back next weekend. Give me a call, you can check it out inside and out of the weather. 603-812-5891
Frank

[tjr818]

. . . I didn’t know you could raise the leech by as much as 11” and not affect sail shape, good to know......

Bob, I did have the sail recut to accommodate the raised clew.

[Bob Lascelles]

Hi Frank,
Thanks for the great offer, I’d love to take a look at your dodger and bring my tape measure . I’d also love to take a look at your Beta 14....maybe one is in my future (I hope).... I’ll give you a call to see about a good time this weekend.
Tim, I’m guessing your sailmaker took a triangular shaped section off the foot and up the leech of the sail, where he put in a new clew cringle. Were you able to keep the original tack and reef locations? That would be a real cost saver. I’m going to lay out a mock up of the mast and boom under my winter cover, to see how the various possible changes work out with the dodger. As they say check twice...cut once. I have a loose footed main, so I think modifying the foot is the most straight forward change....
Thanks!

Bob

[Sea Hunt Video]

. . . Hi Roberto ....thank you for the information about your upgrade. Since you raised the boom 12”, was your sailmaker able to modify your existing sail, or did you have a new one made? At that height it is just a little above the halyard winches, has that been ok? I like the idea of having the boom up high enough so that in the case of an operator error induced gybe (couldn’t happen of course) my head might be out of harms way and I will stop running into the darn thing in careless moments (also couldn’t happen)

Bob:

Sorry about the delay in responding. Quack docs think they have priority over my time.

When I acquired S/V Bali Ha'i I knew the sails were old. I kept them for about a year and then made plans to buy new. I met with the UK Sails rep here in Miami and told him I wanted a new main and genoa and that I wanted to raise the boom 12". He spent a lot of time with me explaining that removing about 12" from the foot would not have any significant impact on sailing characteristics and, given my very limited skills, I would not notice it. So, new main, new genoa and boom raised 12".

As for the winches on the mast, there is about 3" separation between the gooseneck and the winch. It has not presented any issues for me but then I am not exactly knowledgeable or focused on such things. All I can honestly say is "it worked". I recall an expression often quoted by my friend Mike near Niceville, Fl. "Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works."

I categorically deny any spurious allegations that I accidentally hit my head on the boom (many times ) and that this was the impetus for raising the boom.

Pictures, man, pictures

[Bob Lascelles]

Hi Roberto
Thanks for the additional info. My mainsail is about 7 years old and in good shape. So first prize for me will be to get it modified, I’ll have to see what the sailmaker says. Nice to know a 12” adjustment hasn’t caused any problems.

Pictures.....well as soon as the glacier recedes and we can stop shoveling

All the best
Bob

[frankfurder]

I raised the boom 6" on my 25d to accommodate a bimini. had a new mainsail and mackpack from Mack Sails to accommodate the shorter luff . The shade is nice in Texas.

I have recently noticed a crease in the main sail where the battens end, and i cant seem to get the sail trimmed properly/flattened? Any advice?