Safety tether clip warning
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Safety tether clip warning
https://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/T ... =FB_010118
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... mon-speirs
It is vitally important to inspect your safety tethers. Let this tragic loss of life at sea be a warning to all of us.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... mon-speirs
It is vitally important to inspect your safety tethers. Let this tragic loss of life at sea be a warning to all of us.
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
-
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Jun 1st, '13, 17:05
- Location: CD 31. #33 "Glissade"
Re: Safety tether clip warning
Thanks for passing this on, Jim.
Jenn and I rarely use tethers, as we don't go off shore and avoid night runs if at all possible.
However, in the 80s, I had a little Bristol 26 berthed north of Philadelphia that I would take down to the Chesapeake as often as my work schedule would allow, almost always solo. The currents on the Delaware River and C&D canal were such that long night runs were imperative.
I had a an issue with the available marine tethers, harnesses and clipping devices: I did not trust them. Being a mountain climber since my late teens, I would wear my glacier climbing harness, with crotch straps, and use a locking carabiner to tether to the jackline. This system never failed. If I used just a chest harness and a open clip carabiner, I would be embarrassed.
Now, does a locking carabiner make sense on an ocean racer, where one must often clip in and out? Maybe not . . . unless one falls overboard.
There may be other reasons not to use locking carabiners for racing, but I sure can't think of any.
Anyhow, sad to hear we lost a good sailer. Our best wishes go out to his family and friends.
Jenn and Terry
Jenn and I rarely use tethers, as we don't go off shore and avoid night runs if at all possible.
However, in the 80s, I had a little Bristol 26 berthed north of Philadelphia that I would take down to the Chesapeake as often as my work schedule would allow, almost always solo. The currents on the Delaware River and C&D canal were such that long night runs were imperative.
I had a an issue with the available marine tethers, harnesses and clipping devices: I did not trust them. Being a mountain climber since my late teens, I would wear my glacier climbing harness, with crotch straps, and use a locking carabiner to tether to the jackline. This system never failed. If I used just a chest harness and a open clip carabiner, I would be embarrassed.
Now, does a locking carabiner make sense on an ocean racer, where one must often clip in and out? Maybe not . . . unless one falls overboard.
There may be other reasons not to use locking carabiners for racing, but I sure can't think of any.
Anyhow, sad to hear we lost a good sailer. Our best wishes go out to his family and friends.
Jenn and Terry
Jennifer & Terry McAdams
Kearsarge, New Hampshire
Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia
CD 31 #33 "Glissade"
Way too many other small boats
Kearsarge, New Hampshire
Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia
CD 31 #33 "Glissade"
Way too many other small boats
- Steve Laume
- Posts: 4127
- Joined: Feb 13th, '05, 20:40
- Location: Raven1984 Cape Dory 30C Hull #309Noank, CT
- Contact:
Re: Safety tether clip warning
I always wear a harness when leaving the cockpit while offshore. I will also wear it when closer to shore when things are a bit frisky.
I also come from a rock climbing background and use a sit harness when going up the mast. I don't think it is as good as a chest harness while working on deck. With a chest harness, you have a reasonable chance of keeping your head above water. I am not sure how you would tow in the water with seat harness but it doesn't seem like it would be in a heads up position. If you ended up being towed cross wise, it would put a tremendous strain on your body and the attachment points. Climbing and sailing present different problems and solutions. My chest harness is also easier to put on and adjust than my seat harness so I am more likely to wear it if I am just making a short trip on deck.
One thing that troubled me in the test pictures is that they were using tubular webbing. While this is fine for climbing and for tethers it should not be used for jack lines. Tubular webbing is usually nylon and it will stretch a lot when wet. You want your jack lines to be as tight as you can get them. It would also be more likely to snag on the tether hook.
A locking biner would work fine on the jack line end but you need to be able to release the harness end while under load if the need should arise. I have a West Marine tether with big stainless clips on the jack line end and a large halyard type shackle on the harness end. I always set up the harness clip so I can reach for it and release it with my right hand. This is so I always know where to reach for it is I was ever trapped in an entanglement situation.
One of the keys is to sear the thing and always check to make sure it is hooked up properly. It is the same as with climbing in that the last thing you need to do before trusting your life to any gear is to make sure it is all hooked up properly, Steve.
I also come from a rock climbing background and use a sit harness when going up the mast. I don't think it is as good as a chest harness while working on deck. With a chest harness, you have a reasonable chance of keeping your head above water. I am not sure how you would tow in the water with seat harness but it doesn't seem like it would be in a heads up position. If you ended up being towed cross wise, it would put a tremendous strain on your body and the attachment points. Climbing and sailing present different problems and solutions. My chest harness is also easier to put on and adjust than my seat harness so I am more likely to wear it if I am just making a short trip on deck.
One thing that troubled me in the test pictures is that they were using tubular webbing. While this is fine for climbing and for tethers it should not be used for jack lines. Tubular webbing is usually nylon and it will stretch a lot when wet. You want your jack lines to be as tight as you can get them. It would also be more likely to snag on the tether hook.
A locking biner would work fine on the jack line end but you need to be able to release the harness end while under load if the need should arise. I have a West Marine tether with big stainless clips on the jack line end and a large halyard type shackle on the harness end. I always set up the harness clip so I can reach for it and release it with my right hand. This is so I always know where to reach for it is I was ever trapped in an entanglement situation.
One of the keys is to sear the thing and always check to make sure it is hooked up properly. It is the same as with climbing in that the last thing you need to do before trusting your life to any gear is to make sure it is all hooked up properly, Steve.
Re: Safety tether clip warning
All good points Steve.
I wear a chest harness religiously if I'm not daysailing. My tether has two carabiners, one on a six foot lead and one on a three foot lead. The attachment to my harness is a snap shackle with three big beads on the pull cord so it's easy to detach in an emergency.
My jacklines are flat webbing (not hollow) and run from my stern cleats to my bow cleats. I can clip on without leaving the cockpit and the short lead allows me to get past an obstruction without ever being totally unhooked. I have two pad eyes in my cockpit. One at the helm, and one on the bridge deck which I can reach while still in the cabin. I don't leave the cabin without hooking up first.
I have a lot of residual damage from a bad auto accident so it's imperative that I wear a harness offshore. I also have to plot a course and time my movements in heavy weather more than most because I have to deal with several mobility limitations. The porpoises don't seem to notice but the seagulls will occasionally laugh when they see me "stealthily" move about the topsides
I wear a chest harness religiously if I'm not daysailing. My tether has two carabiners, one on a six foot lead and one on a three foot lead. The attachment to my harness is a snap shackle with three big beads on the pull cord so it's easy to detach in an emergency.
My jacklines are flat webbing (not hollow) and run from my stern cleats to my bow cleats. I can clip on without leaving the cockpit and the short lead allows me to get past an obstruction without ever being totally unhooked. I have two pad eyes in my cockpit. One at the helm, and one on the bridge deck which I can reach while still in the cabin. I don't leave the cabin without hooking up first.
I have a lot of residual damage from a bad auto accident so it's imperative that I wear a harness offshore. I also have to plot a course and time my movements in heavy weather more than most because I have to deal with several mobility limitations. The porpoises don't seem to notice but the seagulls will occasionally laugh when they see me "stealthily" move about the topsides
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
-
- Posts: 3623
- Joined: Oct 6th, '08, 07:30
- Location: S/V Far Reach: CD 36 #61 www.farreachvoayges.net www.farreachvoyages.com
Re: Safety tether clip warning
Interesting discussion. I don't think there is a right are wrong answer to when or how to use a harness. Climbers tend to know a lot more about the capabilities of snap links and safety hardware than sailors.
I'm not a big fan of harnesses although I occasionally wear one. Usually, I'm offshore and the weather is squally or it's night. I don't rig jack lines on the Far Reach. At least not so far. I'm not saying I never would have them but it would have to be some crazy event to require them--like the southern ocean?
What I typically do, if I am wearing a harness, is carefully go to where I need to work and hook on there. I move slow and steady paying attention to every step of the way planing each step. I always have hold of something with one hand before I let go with the other. I am not bashful about crawling on my hands and knees if necessary. Every time I hook up first and then move, something gets tangled or I am trying to reach something and my harness jerks me up short. Then I have to go back or go around something and unhook and rehook and by then I would have already been done if I had just crawled to where I needed to be, hooked up, did the job, unhooked and gone back to the cockpit. I got jerked off my feet once by the harness at night on the way to the BVI and fell on my back. It always seems like a real pain in the ass. I have a couple padeyes in the cockpit I can hook to when necessary. When working on the bowsprit at night I hook to the opposite lifeline (Dyneema) or through and around the center of a deck cleat. I know what it means to have a death-grip on to the boat.
I also like to leave one of the tethers hooked up in the cockpit and I detach from the harness end when I go below and hook back up it it when back in the cockpit. I read about a guy that has a couple of tethers hooked at key places on the boat and he moves from one to the other and that seems like an interesting technique. He is hooking up and detaching from the harness end of the teather.
I also have 7" tall bulwarks and they make a huge difference in my safety. I always figure that even if hooked up, if I fall over the side I am dead so I just make sure I stay on the boat. Rule number one: Stay on the boat. Rule number two: See rule number one.
I have the standard West Marine harness with the quick release on the harness end and a double safety snap hook on the boat end. It has taken a lot of practice to learn to open that double snap-link with one hand. I can't imagine it could come unhooked accidentally. It's an OK harness, I have no complaints with it.
I am not an anti harness person. I actually do wear one when my instincts tell me too. But I have tried to make my boat easy to stay on with no obstructions or jerry-cans other things to have to work around and I try to stay on the high side of the boat.
For climbing the mast I wear a climbing harness made for arborist by a company called New Tribe. It's very affordable and comfortable. I've been up my mast dozens of times. I use petzel micro ascenders and spectra webbing foot loops. Simple and affordable.
I'm not a big fan of harnesses although I occasionally wear one. Usually, I'm offshore and the weather is squally or it's night. I don't rig jack lines on the Far Reach. At least not so far. I'm not saying I never would have them but it would have to be some crazy event to require them--like the southern ocean?
What I typically do, if I am wearing a harness, is carefully go to where I need to work and hook on there. I move slow and steady paying attention to every step of the way planing each step. I always have hold of something with one hand before I let go with the other. I am not bashful about crawling on my hands and knees if necessary. Every time I hook up first and then move, something gets tangled or I am trying to reach something and my harness jerks me up short. Then I have to go back or go around something and unhook and rehook and by then I would have already been done if I had just crawled to where I needed to be, hooked up, did the job, unhooked and gone back to the cockpit. I got jerked off my feet once by the harness at night on the way to the BVI and fell on my back. It always seems like a real pain in the ass. I have a couple padeyes in the cockpit I can hook to when necessary. When working on the bowsprit at night I hook to the opposite lifeline (Dyneema) or through and around the center of a deck cleat. I know what it means to have a death-grip on to the boat.
I also like to leave one of the tethers hooked up in the cockpit and I detach from the harness end when I go below and hook back up it it when back in the cockpit. I read about a guy that has a couple of tethers hooked at key places on the boat and he moves from one to the other and that seems like an interesting technique. He is hooking up and detaching from the harness end of the teather.
I also have 7" tall bulwarks and they make a huge difference in my safety. I always figure that even if hooked up, if I fall over the side I am dead so I just make sure I stay on the boat. Rule number one: Stay on the boat. Rule number two: See rule number one.
I have the standard West Marine harness with the quick release on the harness end and a double safety snap hook on the boat end. It has taken a lot of practice to learn to open that double snap-link with one hand. I can't imagine it could come unhooked accidentally. It's an OK harness, I have no complaints with it.
I am not an anti harness person. I actually do wear one when my instincts tell me too. But I have tried to make my boat easy to stay on with no obstructions or jerry-cans other things to have to work around and I try to stay on the high side of the boat.
For climbing the mast I wear a climbing harness made for arborist by a company called New Tribe. It's very affordable and comfortable. I've been up my mast dozens of times. I use petzel micro ascenders and spectra webbing foot loops. Simple and affordable.
-
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Jun 1st, '13, 17:05
- Location: CD 31. #33 "Glissade"
Re: Safety tether clip warning
One more thing about harnesses. If your chest harness lacks crotch straps, maybe consider adding them (many types of harnesses can be fitted with these straps.
I believe we discussed crotch straps in an older thread about Life Slings on this forum. Anyhow, some folks with narrow shoulders (like my dear wife) or heavier folks might slip out of a chest harness or, possibly worse, have the chest strap ride up to their neck under a load as the harness rides up their arms, not good things.
Yes, crotch straps can be uncomfortable and can chafe and might even lead to injury if not properly fitted. In my solo sailing days, I used a glacier climbers seat harness with chest straps (this is different from a riggers seat harness or bosuns chair). This may be the most comfortable, but it's would still require quite a bit of adjustment if you add/subtract layers of clothing. These harnesses are designed to stay on even when you are upside down,
Anyhow, something to think about in front of the fire during this very cold winter.
Jenn and Terry
I believe we discussed crotch straps in an older thread about Life Slings on this forum. Anyhow, some folks with narrow shoulders (like my dear wife) or heavier folks might slip out of a chest harness or, possibly worse, have the chest strap ride up to their neck under a load as the harness rides up their arms, not good things.
Yes, crotch straps can be uncomfortable and can chafe and might even lead to injury if not properly fitted. In my solo sailing days, I used a glacier climbers seat harness with chest straps (this is different from a riggers seat harness or bosuns chair). This may be the most comfortable, but it's would still require quite a bit of adjustment if you add/subtract layers of clothing. These harnesses are designed to stay on even when you are upside down,
Anyhow, something to think about in front of the fire during this very cold winter.
Jenn and Terry
Jennifer & Terry McAdams
Kearsarge, New Hampshire
Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia
CD 31 #33 "Glissade"
Way too many other small boats
Kearsarge, New Hampshire
Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia
CD 31 #33 "Glissade"
Way too many other small boats
Re: Safety tether clip warning
I am more likely to use (and tell crew to use) a tether when I have crew. I find the man overboard situation much more disturbing when I am responsible for someone else. That is not to say I am not a big chicken or that I don't take my own safety seriously, just that it seems much more black and white with another person depending on me.
With that in mind, I was extremely disturbed when in bad weather headed to the Abacos, I noticed that my harness clip was undone. I re-clipped in wondering whether I had simply been careless. 20 minutes later it was undone again. This is an $80+ tether. Suffice to say, I don't use that tether any longer -- the crew gets it! Seriously, I have 3 tethers aboard and they are not all the same manufacturer or I would post the name here. You can't trust stuff simply because it is "safety equipment" . . ..
Matt
With that in mind, I was extremely disturbed when in bad weather headed to the Abacos, I noticed that my harness clip was undone. I re-clipped in wondering whether I had simply been careless. 20 minutes later it was undone again. This is an $80+ tether. Suffice to say, I don't use that tether any longer -- the crew gets it! Seriously, I have 3 tethers aboard and they are not all the same manufacturer or I would post the name here. You can't trust stuff simply because it is "safety equipment" . . ..
Matt
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Re: Safety tether clip warning
I don't want to sound like a contrarian. I would never tell someone else not to wear a harness or not to use crotch straps. If my kids said they would feel safer in crotch straps, by gosh I'd go right out and buy them a harness with crotch straps. You need to do what makes you feel safe.
But this is a forum for discussion so I offer the following to further said discussion.
How many cruisers fall off their boats and drown or are otherwise lost? How many cruisers fall off their boats with a harness on and attached to their boats that slip out of their harness and drown or are otherwise lost...that would have been saved had they had on crotch straps?
I think there is value in keeping things simple and easy to do. The harder we make it, the more complicated we make it, the more inconvenient we make it, the less likely we are to do it. When I think it's time to wear a harness I want to be able to put it on quickly without fuss or drama. Think about having to rush up on deck at night. No time to get the darn crotch strap leg straps on. Fine, just get it around your chest and get up there and now you have loops hanging down to get caught on winchs or snag on jerry cans or cleats or whatever. Or decide it only takes a few more seconds to put the crotch straps on and you are just a little delayed getting on deck and now it's to late. Sure I'm using some dramatic license. I've read the reports and analysis about harnesses, crotch straps, inflatable PFDs in Practical Sailor, etc. It's interesting stuff but even they suggest it's a compromise.
We don't all sail the same way, or in the same areas, or have the same mobility, or have the same levels of risk aversion, etc. so one size does not fit all.
The other thing I have observed from not only a life time of sailing but also a lifetime of military operations to include staticline and high altitude parachuting as well as combat diving, is that when safety is uttered we sometimes go crazy trying to mitigate every possible scenario. Rock climbers, mountaineers, and back country skiers seems to have a better acceptance for risk and a better sense of balance between risk and safety. While I think they are, as a general rule very safe, they seem to see risk as inherent to the sport. We sailors on the other hand seem to want zero risk. And what's weird to me is it was not always that way. I think of those men on square riggers rounding the Horn with no safety lines furling sails a hundred feet above the deck, or cruisers of just 30-50 years ago--no harnesses, no goretex, no inflatable PFDs, no life rafts, no GPS. But they were out there and enjoying it for a lot less money and hassle than we seem to be able to do.
Again, I'd never tell anyone else what to do. I offer it as something to consider for those perhaps new to the sport of sailing that may think you have to have every kind of safety device on your boat or take every possible safety precaution otherwise you are reckless and irresponsible. Who wants to be reckless and irresponsible. But it's just not true. Be smart. Be thoughtful. Plan. ID risks and determine reasonable ways to mitigate the risk. Organize. Practice. Execute. Review. Make necessary changes. Repeat. And above all else, have fun.
But this is a forum for discussion so I offer the following to further said discussion.
How many cruisers fall off their boats and drown or are otherwise lost? How many cruisers fall off their boats with a harness on and attached to their boats that slip out of their harness and drown or are otherwise lost...that would have been saved had they had on crotch straps?
I think there is value in keeping things simple and easy to do. The harder we make it, the more complicated we make it, the more inconvenient we make it, the less likely we are to do it. When I think it's time to wear a harness I want to be able to put it on quickly without fuss or drama. Think about having to rush up on deck at night. No time to get the darn crotch strap leg straps on. Fine, just get it around your chest and get up there and now you have loops hanging down to get caught on winchs or snag on jerry cans or cleats or whatever. Or decide it only takes a few more seconds to put the crotch straps on and you are just a little delayed getting on deck and now it's to late. Sure I'm using some dramatic license. I've read the reports and analysis about harnesses, crotch straps, inflatable PFDs in Practical Sailor, etc. It's interesting stuff but even they suggest it's a compromise.
We don't all sail the same way, or in the same areas, or have the same mobility, or have the same levels of risk aversion, etc. so one size does not fit all.
The other thing I have observed from not only a life time of sailing but also a lifetime of military operations to include staticline and high altitude parachuting as well as combat diving, is that when safety is uttered we sometimes go crazy trying to mitigate every possible scenario. Rock climbers, mountaineers, and back country skiers seems to have a better acceptance for risk and a better sense of balance between risk and safety. While I think they are, as a general rule very safe, they seem to see risk as inherent to the sport. We sailors on the other hand seem to want zero risk. And what's weird to me is it was not always that way. I think of those men on square riggers rounding the Horn with no safety lines furling sails a hundred feet above the deck, or cruisers of just 30-50 years ago--no harnesses, no goretex, no inflatable PFDs, no life rafts, no GPS. But they were out there and enjoying it for a lot less money and hassle than we seem to be able to do.
Again, I'd never tell anyone else what to do. I offer it as something to consider for those perhaps new to the sport of sailing that may think you have to have every kind of safety device on your boat or take every possible safety precaution otherwise you are reckless and irresponsible. Who wants to be reckless and irresponsible. But it's just not true. Be smart. Be thoughtful. Plan. ID risks and determine reasonable ways to mitigate the risk. Organize. Practice. Execute. Review. Make necessary changes. Repeat. And above all else, have fun.
Last edited by John Stone on Jan 12th, '18, 14:32, edited 1 time in total.
- tjr818
- Posts: 1851
- Joined: Oct 13th, '07, 13:42
- Location: Previously owned 1980 CD 27 Slainte, Hull #185. NO.1257949
Re: Safety tether clip warning
I am sure glad that my wife is not reading this, she would have me sailing in a survival suit all summer if she knew of these worries.
Tim
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27