Porta Potty

[Frenchy]

I'm considering eliminating the toilet, hoses and holding tank on my CD 33 and replacing with a 5 gal. porta potty equipped with
a pump out fitting. I'm wondering if anybody has done this and how it's worked out. I hate the idea of pumping sewage into the
bilge (which is what the holding tank on a 33 is). Also, the hoses stink. The previous owner must have left sewage in the bilge
over the winter, because I notice a good sized crack in the bottom of the bilge/holding tank which probably happened during a freeze.
We have good pump out facililties along Buzzard's Bay and in an emergency, I may be able to dump the tank overboard when
out beyond 3 miles (Have to check the legality, but probably OK).
Besides having a better smelling boat, there would be two less thru-hulls. Is this a crazy idea? - Jean

[bottomscraper]

>> Is this a crazy idea?

Yes!

[camroll]

Jean, for years I had a porta-pottie with a 5 gal. holding tank on my boat. This worked great while day sailing and for weekend trips where I could empty it out at the marina. For longer trips I had a macerator hooked up to it which would pump it into a holding tank. I used a 15 gal. Nauta flexible tank. I have since installed a composting toilet which I like much better. No hoses, no pumps, no smell!!
Russ

[Tom Keevil]

We have good friends who are very pleased with their composting toilet. That sounds like a much better idea.

Does your holding tank actually leak? If you fill it with water does it leak out?

Replacing the hoses will make a huge difference in the odor. It did for us. Be sure that there are no low spots where sewage can sit.

[Frenchy]

Thanks for your replies, everyone. I need to do more research on a composting toilet, I think. I've read some negative things about them,
so maybe that influenced. Tom, my holding tank doesn't leak, but the crack bothers me. When I bought the boat, it had been laid up
for about 8 years and the bilge and holding tank each held about a foot and half of gross-looking liquid.
The bilge survived with no cracks, but the holding tank area suffered a bit from the freeze cycles, I think. I may try to pour a thin
epoxy mixture into the crack for now (If I think it's dry enough). Also, replacing the hoses is a good idea. Thanks again, everyone -
I'm definitely rethinking the portable toilet idea. -Jean

[mgphl52]

We eliminated the smell on KAYLA when we stopped using sea water to flush. We now keep a couple of gallon jugs to use for the rinse flush.

[Paul D.]

I would do the following before scrapping the entire system
1. Do your crack fix while the tank is so clean and dry. Though I wouldn't worry much about it, nothing down there but resin.
2. Flush your system hoses and maybe even shock them with a cup full of bleach for a few hours then rinse
3. Use fresh water to flush as described. One way is to pull the head water from a sump that collects your sink drain.

You got 47 gallons of holding tank down there. I would try to use it if possible

[John Stone]

Frenchy,
We don't have a holding tank, per se, on the Far Reach. We cut the original tank out during the rebuild. Though it appears that it was a common boat building practice at the time, I think it was a terrible idea to make the tank integral to the hull. In its place we installed a collision compartment and a wine cellar.

We have some friends with a composting head and they say it has been terrific for them. My understanding is that it works well for two living on board but more than that and it can't keep up.

I'm sure there are others on the forum with personal experience that can shed light on the pros and cons of composting heads.

[Sea Hunt Video]

I think it was a terrible idea to make the tank integral to the hull. In its place we installed a . . . wine cellar.

Now there is a man with his priorities squared away

[Andy Denmark]

In 1994, against all aesthetical (sic) sense, I installed a small Sani Potti in Rhiannon after the CG warned me about my direct discharge head. I had an annual charter already booked and felt the portable unit would work despite my personal distaste at the concept level.

CG said if they caught me again with direct discharge head aboard it would cost a $1500 fine. I was given 30 days to comply and the CG promised they'd inspect boat at that time. They did & toilet passed without a question. I considered the porta potty to be a temporary fix in my mind to comply with CG and save my charter.

Long story short, the same porta potty is still in the boat as it solves a myriad of head problems; no smell at all, no leakage, no hoses or other plumbing, no holding tank, no pumpout considerations. I use an RV toilet additive (cheap) per directions on gallon jug that breaks down everything in the tank into an odorless blue sludge that flushes easily down a standard shore toilet. A spray bottle of same eliminates skid marks.

A brief rinse (I carry a plastic milk container of clear water) when I go empty P/P tank and it's a done deal. Solo, I can get about a week of use before empty. Add a crew and it's three or four days depending on gender ratio. Operation is dead simple. Only 2 rules for operation, (1) all useage is done from a sitting position, thus no splatter, and (2) nothing goes into head that hasn't been eaten first.

Maintenance consists of a two-minute exterior wipe down with a pop-up Chlorox tissue. Use ordinary single ply TP that breaks down in tank.

All for less than $100 and a few minutes to install mounting bracket.

[Frenchy]

Well, thanks for your post, Andy. The portable toilet idea is not that crazy. The whole subject is not pleasant, but
I was thinking that with the newer type 5 or 6 gal. units with a pump out fitting, there's options to either
pump overboard (3 miles out) or pump out at a dock. Still have to mull it over.
And John, Amen to your comment about using the hull as an integral holding tank - terrible. On the
composting toilet, my reservations are 1) the size and tallness of the unit 2) the electrical power needed
for the fan, which is constantly on 3) leakage, and the need to manually remove the contents.
Anyway, thanks again for all your inputs. - Jean

[bhartley]

We have a porta-pottie on our Sea Sprite -- and as a female who drinks and sails -- it is used a lot. Our old PP was great until it suffered from plastic fatigue. The replacement (from West Marine as I had a gift certificate) is NOT up to the task. It appears to be made from the same mold as the first, but no matter what we do it leaks. Just enough to be aggravating. We use RV potty treatment to help with odors, but when you open the "flush valve" it is still fragrant. We have a strict liquid only rule for the PP so odor sources are limited.

On our 25D I joyfully use the proper head and pump out as needed. We sail with more non-sailors on the 25D so it is far more satisfactory. We do have a split system on the 25D (holding tank and overboard discharge). As long as the overboard discharge has a key lock on it (padlock), it is considered acceptable by GA.

No experience with composting toilets, but I would rethink the PP.

Just my .02!

Bly

[John Stone]

We don't use a porta-pot on the Far Reach. Instead, when I built the head compartment with a sitz sit-down shower tub I also designed and built a toilet box with a teak lid and under the lid a teak toilet seat. Inside the box is a bracket base that securely holds a standard five gallon bucket. At sea (offshore) we keep a small amount of water in the bucket and do our business there. We chuck it over the side. Same as pumping it over for most folks. In port or coastal waters we use Clean Waste Wag Bags.

Basically, a wag bag is a biodegradable plastic bag made to fit in a 5 gallon bucket. We purchase them in a box of 15 and 25 bags. The bags come with with a powder that neutralizes the waste and also gels the liquid. When completed you tie off the bag and drop it into a biodegradable zip-lock style bag. We have a second 3 gallon bucket with a spin lock style vapor-proof lid we keep in the lazarette. We stow the used bags there. When we go ashore we drop the bags in waste cans as they are completely biodegradable.

These are the same bags approved by the US Forrest Service, are are often used in disaster areas, and are very eco-friendly. In fact, I would argue that we are more eco friendly than the folks out cruising with holding tanks. In the Caribbean I almost never saw pump out facilities. And when I did, I never saw anyone using them. In the anchorages I was in it was well known that folks pump directly over the side. But we did not/do not. We used the wag bags.

Let me add something about the toilet box. With the lid down it's a great seat in general. It's wide with plenty of room and just aft of the forward hatch so it has a great breeze. It's an open space with lots of light. There are no residual orders there either. With the lid up the seat is the most comfortable toilet seat I have ever used. It's easy to brace your feet offshore--very comfortable.

The Far Reach has no holding tank or musky head smells. There is no plumbing to fail. No elaberate system to confound us or chemicals which may be bad for the environment. We are never tempted to pump over the side because the holding tank is full. It is a simple effective system. It's a little awkward when we have a new guest aboard but they adapt quickly. We just took a female friend out for an overnight trip and her response was "I thought it would be weird but there was nothing to it at all."

Maybe it's because I was a infantryman for all those years. But I figure there are about 8 billion people in the world and most folks are doing their business everyday so while I like privacy and a comfortable place I just don't see why people are so darn fussy about a normal human function. But I digress....

While I understand and respect those who want to keep the systems they have I have no plans to go back.

[Andy Denmark]

Bly,

I posted a reply to you earlier but somehow it didn't show up. Here's another attempt ...

Rhiannon's head is a Sani Potti, bought from Jamestown DIstributors in 1986. Boat is 3,200 miles from here so I can't see who manufactured it but it has been rock solid since being installed then with no breakage and some fairly heavy usage during protracted cruises.

Smell free? Well, even home toilets smell when they're being used. That's why bathrooms have ventilation fans. A Sea Sprite 23 has pretty small interior volume that would confine odors more than a larger space, especially with poor ventilation ... Boyle's Law? Broyles Law? I don't remember which one of these physical laws pertains to gas (methane) concentration levels vs volumetric size, but ventilation plays a big part in odor reduction.

Rhiannon, my CD-27, has two dorade vents in the ceiling above the head area, thus pretty good air circulation. Whatever odors are there are quickly dissipated.

Before using quite a few boat units and valuable interior space for a permanently installed toilet, you may want to consider the above.

Just sayin' ...

Andy

[Jim Walsh]

ORION still has the OE Groco head and holding tank in use. I have had to perform routine maintenance and replace the pump cylinder but nothing mechanical lasts indefinitely. My personal preference (perhaps it's just an expectation for a certain amount of luxury) is to have a flush toilet. I've lived with Porta-Potty's, and no potty's in the past, and that was fine at the time. I'm cognizant of the composting heads and they are not for me.
The bucket and chuck-it is my back-up should my head ever suffer a catastrophic failure.