Core repair: worth the while or a losing battle?

[Leaky Scupper]

The "Leaky Scupper" is my '75 typhoon with a large soft spot on the fore-deck surrounding the cleat. Additionally, she has deformation around the chain plates.

I could use some advice in deciding whether to start a big core replacement / chain plate reinforcement project, probably the majority of the fore-deck, or whether it's time to cut my losses. I think that I have the skill for this operation, but my time does have value.

Am I denying the inevitable...will nature win in the near future even if I do invest the time and fix this damaged core?

Any advice based on your own re-core and chain plate reinforcement projects would be highly regarded.

Thanks,
-paul



prfirst@syr.edu

[B.E.]

You can get a sense of what you're in for by checking out D. Casey or D. Spurr's books about rebuilding classics. You may also have some luck at the Triton ( another Alberg design ) website. They may still have owners maintenance stories.

[George S.]

You can get a sense of what you're in for by checking out D. Casey or D. Spurr's books about rebuilding classics. You may also have some luck at the Triton ( another Alberg design ) website. They may still have owners maintenance stories.

You could also look at John Ring's work on Tantalus, a CD28, at http://www.sailorjon.net/

George S.
s/v Wings of the Morning
CD26



georgeNOSPAM@accountron.com

[john]

The "Leaky Scupper" is my '75 typhoon with a large soft spot on the fore-deck surrounding the cleat. Additionally, she has deformation around the chain plates.

I could use some advice in deciding whether to start a big core replacement / chain plate reinforcement project, probably the majority of the fore-deck, or whether it's time to cut my losses. I think that I have the skill for this operation, but my time does have value.

Am I denying the inevitable...will nature win in the near future even if I do invest the time and fix this damaged core?

Any advice based on your own re-core and chain plate reinforcement projects would be highly regarded.

Thanks,
-paul

I'd say it's worth the effort and not a losing battle. I had some water infiltration on the port side deck of my '73 Ty, close to the chain plate. The repair involved cutting out a section of the top layer of the deck, digging out the core, and replacing the core material (I wound up using 3/8 in. plywood, cut in small bits and placed in at alternating angles to minimize an future wicking of water) which I set in thickened epoxy and put a couple of cement blocks on to hold in place. When it was all dry, I sanded down the edges of the plywood (naturally, the bits didn't all lay perfectly flat!) and laid up fiberglass cloth to just a bit less than the level of the deck. When that dried, I ground down the rough edges and smoothed everything back to deck level with a thick putty of thickened epoxy spread with an 8 in. wide putty knife (also used for sheet rock seams). A final sanding and coat of paint and the only way you can tell it from the rest of the deck is by the bright blue color (I have a couple of other areas to repair before painting the rest of the deck). As other contributors to this board counseled me, it takes some time but, in the end, its really not that complicated nor does it take all that much skill. I'm even thinking about replacing a previous owner's repair to the aft deck.

Good luck.
John



john.hoft-marchNOSPAM@appleton.org

[leaky scupper]

Thanks for the detailed reply and the encouragement!

In structural areas, like under the chain plates, do you know if the deck is solid fiberglass or balsa cored?

-paul

The "Leaky Scupper" is my '75 typhoon with a large soft spot on the fore-deck surrounding the cleat. Additionally, she has deformation around the chain plates.

I could use some advice in deciding whether to start a big core replacement / chain plate reinforcement project, probably the majority of the fore-deck, or whether it's time to cut my losses. I think that I have the skill for this operation, but my time does have value.

Am I denying the inevitable...will nature win in the near future even if I do invest the time and fix this damaged core?

Any advice based on your own re-core and chain plate reinforcement projects would be highly regarded.

Thanks,
-paul

I'd say it's worth the effort and not a losing battle. I had some water infiltration on the port side deck of my '73 Ty, close to the chain plate. The repair involved cutting out a section of the top layer of the deck, digging out the core, and replacing the core material (I wound up using 3/8 in. plywood, cut in small bits and placed in at alternating angles to minimize an future wicking of water) which I set in thickened epoxy and put a couple of cement blocks on to hold in place. When it was all dry, I sanded down the edges of the plywood (naturally, the bits didn't all lay perfectly flat!) and laid up fiberglass cloth to just a bit less than the level of the deck. When that dried, I ground down the rough edges and smoothed everything back to deck level with a thick putty of thickened epoxy spread with an 8 in. wide putty knife (also used for sheet rock seams). A final sanding and coat of paint and the only way you can tell it from the rest of the deck is by the bright blue color (I have a couple of other areas to repair before painting the rest of the deck). As other contributors to this board counseled me, it takes some time but, in the end, its really not that complicated nor does it take all that much skill. I'm even thinking about replacing a previous owner's repair to the aft deck.

Good luck.
John

[Joel]

I second John's encouragement. I had to recore most of the foredeck and transom. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be and well worth the effort. That was largely because, like John, I tacled the job from the top. I recently did a small section on my Pearson that I tried to do from the inside. That was a disaster.

Sorry I can't definitively answer the question about the chainplates, but I think it's solid at that point.

Joel
PO Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
Bayside, NY

[leaky scupper]

You guys are starting to get me motivated. I definitely plan on tackling it from the top too.

Thanks!
-paul

I second John's encouragement. I had to recore most of the foredeck and transom. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be and well worth the effort. That was largely because, like John, I tacled the job from the top. I recently did a small section on my Pearson that I tried to do from the inside. That was a disaster.

Sorry I can't definitively answer the question about the chainplates, but I think it's solid at that point.

Joel
PO Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
Bayside, NY

prfirst@syr.edu

[David Disbennett]

The job is really easy. I did my Ty's aft deck from the top. I was somewhat careful in pulling the skin off after cutting through the top with a circular saw, and set it aside, dug out the rot, replaced it with new balsa from defenders(they have 3/8 thick) set it in some thickened polyester resin, spead some more on top, set the removed skin back on top and put some bags of lead shot on it and went away for a day...ok I poked at it a few times. When it all cured I feathered the edges of the seam back about 2 inches on each side, layered in some cloth tape starting with 1" strip and then went to 2" then 3", ground that smooth put a little fairing compound in, squirted some gel coat on it. That was it, done in 4 nights, and a 12 pack.

Don't sweat it it's pretty easy.



dwdisbennett@msn.com

[John Birmingham]

This looks like a good approach to aft deck repair. I ordered 3/8 balsa from defenders yesterday, it arrived today using the cheapest shipping, I guess, I'll be giving it a try this weekend...

Any other suggestions for a soft aft deck?

[psjanker]

I had no experience with glassing or replacing core until I got my 28 and had to do a cockpit re-coring to fix a spongy floor. I found it to be very easy. I used the West system and found it straight forward. I do recommend doing it from the top and having a good sander and grinder....did it in less than a weekend. My 30 had a soft bow section 4 sq feet or so and I was able to take care of it in an afternoon. Used plywood as core material. I used Kewi Grip for antiskid and again the repair work is invisible.

V/r

Pete

[gates_cliff]

I agree with previous posts that it is worth doing. I had a Kittiwake 24 a number of years ago that needed extensive recore. In fact, I did the entire foredeck, side decks, coach roof. Using the processes described above, I cut out the top layer, and replaced it with marine plywood. Of course I had to make supports on the underside, which turned out to be the most difficult part (had to cur contoured braces to match the camber of the deck). But once it was done, the deck was amazingly strong. I jumped up and down on it with no flex at all. At that time, I followed the process laid out in Tim Lackey's Glissando project and then the West System book. The absolute worst part was the sanding and finishing.

[bhartley]

I have recored two entire Cape Dory decks and it was well worth it. It really isn't as bad as it looks. I would rather recore a deck than scrape bottom paint!

I will make three recommendations and one piece of Typhoon advice.

1) Buy a cheap oscillating saw and lots of blades (think Harbor Freight). If I had had one on the first deck I did, the process would have been much faster and much cleaner. Nice square, straight cuts through the top skin. Do not waste your time trying to preserve the top skins.

2) Buy heavy grade poly sheeting (in the paint area at Lowes/Home Depot) and cut pieces the right size to cover the wetted balsa core. It helps you get it nice and smooth and flat. While you are there buy some bags of sand. They make nice weights to hold things down and can be reused later.

3) Use Kiwigrip to refinish the decks when done.

Ty advice: Support the stern deck from underneath BEFORE you start cutting anything away. There is good bit of curve to the deck and the bottom layer of glass (at least on my boat) was very thin and sagged making a lot more work to get the stern deck looking top notch.

Enjoy the work and your boat!

Bly

[gates_cliff]

Bly,

Agree with what you wrote but have a question, not certain how using the heavy duty sheeting helps. It's been quite awhile since I did the same kind of work I mentioned on a Kittiwake (?). Agree about not trying to save the top skin, I tried it was pointless. Also, I wish I had known or had bought one of the oscillating saws.

[John Birmingham]

Thanks for the feedback, I removed the hardware and cut the deck away. The balsa was wet and rotten. I cut through a bit of the bottom layer of fiberglass deck a few inches from the transom, wish I hadn't done that! Things are drying out...

[John Birmingham]

Here are so pictures...