Prop Zinc
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Disappearing ElectroGuard zincs
Dave,
I lost an electro-guard zinc one year and the yard manager explained how to keep from loosing them again. The zinc is cast and can have little burrs or raised areas where it attaches to the nut. The raised area corrodes away and leaves no compressive load to make the lock washer work. The trick is then to put the zinc on and tighten the screw. Give the end of the zinc a hit with a hammer and re-tighten. The hammer hit smashes down any raised areas. Don't kill it with a sledge or get too aggressive with the hammer as you can damage the thrust bearing in your transmission. It has worked for me for 5 or 6 years now.
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I lost an electro-guard zinc one year and the yard manager explained how to keep from loosing them again. The zinc is cast and can have little burrs or raised areas where it attaches to the nut. The raised area corrodes away and leaves no compressive load to make the lock washer work. The trick is then to put the zinc on and tighten the screw. Give the end of the zinc a hit with a hammer and re-tighten. The hammer hit smashes down any raised areas. Don't kill it with a sledge or get too aggressive with the hammer as you can damage the thrust bearing in your transmission. It has worked for me for 5 or 6 years now.
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
Re: spring bug
Bob,
Be careful..there is a large low coming in Friday evening, that will be creating an icestorm. Temps are warming now (yeah!), and will be around 35 deg. by the weekend, so this white stuff wil be interesting.
good luck..and good skiing.
Larry
demers@sgi.com
Be careful..there is a large low coming in Friday evening, that will be creating an icestorm. Temps are warming now (yeah!), and will be around 35 deg. by the weekend, so this white stuff wil be interesting.
good luck..and good skiing.
Larry
Bob Loewenstein wrote:Larry, Thanks for the weather report. We're coming up your way (Hurley) to ski tomorrow through Sunday. While I certainly think about boats, I haven't given up the ski bug just yet.Larry DeMers wrote: Boy talk about getting the boat bug! We usually have 35-40 deg. out by this time, and the snow is usually getting pretty crispy and scarce. But not this year! I *still* have 4ft. of snow in the yard, and it was -20 deg. actual temp last night..
Come on Spring!
Larry DeMers
Bob
demers@sgi.com
Re: Difference between Perry and ElectroGuard nuts...
Well, as I said..it was a possible caution. There indeed may be enough incidental contact to establish the milliohm contact you need for the zinc to be 100% effective -when new. But in time, I am somewhat concerned with what happens to the incidental contact. In electronics..incidental contact is not allowed to be considered a viable contact. It must be phyically attached via a clamp or screw usually. (there are probably some exceptions to this..i am not coming up with one now though). So if the screw is needed for the long term elctrical contact, and it is insulated with whatever goop is used, there could be problems. Trouble is..when would you find out that there are problems? After the damage is done.
My suggestion is to consider that screw as a conductor also, making contact with the nut and shaft and *also* the top of the zinc, where it has a fairly tight fit.
You are probably right that there is enough incidental contact, with the cage and shaft nut contact, so that the screw is just for holding the zinc on tight. But the change I propose should not be an expense for a well outfit tool box..just a precaution taken that may -or may not make a difference. But if it costs little or nothing to do, it seems wise to do so, no?
I would like to reiterize..I am not criticizing the method Dave was using. It probably is just dandy. I was merely suggesting that in electronics, small voltages like what exists in this bonding scheme, are easily lost due to corrosion of the contact surfaces. While yes..the contact is clean and brite now..when new, they will not be in a month or two (most likely -it depends on how much electrlysis you experince naturally). The use of the screw to carry current could be all that is left for contact once corrosion does start up.
My old zinc turned all white, porous and chalky over it's entire surface..except under the screw head. I will gaurantee you that there was no electrical contact through that white oxide powder.
But we all do what we gotta do, right?
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 <brrrr>
demers@sgi.com
My suggestion is to consider that screw as a conductor also, making contact with the nut and shaft and *also* the top of the zinc, where it has a fairly tight fit.
You are probably right that there is enough incidental contact, with the cage and shaft nut contact, so that the screw is just for holding the zinc on tight. But the change I propose should not be an expense for a well outfit tool box..just a precaution taken that may -or may not make a difference. But if it costs little or nothing to do, it seems wise to do so, no?
I would like to reiterize..I am not criticizing the method Dave was using. It probably is just dandy. I was merely suggesting that in electronics, small voltages like what exists in this bonding scheme, are easily lost due to corrosion of the contact surfaces. While yes..the contact is clean and brite now..when new, they will not be in a month or two (most likely -it depends on how much electrlysis you experince naturally). The use of the screw to carry current could be all that is left for contact once corrosion does start up.
My old zinc turned all white, porous and chalky over it's entire surface..except under the screw head. I will gaurantee you that there was no electrical contact through that white oxide powder.
But we all do what we gotta do, right?
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 <brrrr>
Tom wrote:Larry, Straighten me out here. I thought that the contact between the zinc and the propshaft was via the bronze nut. The inside of the zinc is in contact with the outside of the bronze nut it's entire length and also at the bottom of the zinc where it comes against the collar on the bronze nut. The continuity between the quarter twenty bolt that holds the zinc on and the bronze nut that it threads into I always thought was immaterial, because the inside of the zinc is in contact with the outside of the bronze nut on it's entire surface. Thus you've got several square inches of contact even if you didn't have a bolt there. The bronze nut portion screws onto the prop shaft so you've got absolute contact between the shaft and the bronze nut that slattering 5200 all over the bolt wouldn't affect in any way. You've got contact between the inside of the zinc and the outside of the bronze nut that slattering 5200 on the bolt wouldn't affect in any way. What am I missing here?Larry DeMers wrote: Dave,
Just a possible caution about not getting too rambunctious with the lifecaulk on the zinc. Don't forget that you have a low voltage connection to that nut via the wire cage and bolt thread. That connection must be the very lowest resistance possible, or the zinc will be less and less effective. In other words, you are trying to bond the zinc to the prop, shaft, and probably the engine too as if it were one. If there is some resistance in that path, the voltage difference between the zinc and the stuff to be protected will increase, leading to increased electrolysis. (kinda like the zinc wasn't there partially). How about using a version of lock-tite instead? I do not know if locktite is ok used undewater or not..as long as it has hardened, it would seem to be ok. If it were applied to the threads, then the screw was inserted, the threads would still make electrical contact at the interface of the screws thread to the bolts thread. The screw would be securely held there against vibration, and there would be loads of physical contact of the zinc to the cage and shaft nut etc.
Or maybe there is still enough incidental contact such that there is no problem? I use the same device, and so far, it looks like new. (but the prop keeps getting smaller and smaller!...just kidding ;^) )
Boy talk about getting the boat bug! We usually have 35-40 deg. out by this time, and the snow is usually getting pretty crispy and scarce. But not this year! I *still* have 4ft. of snow in the yard, and it was -20 deg. actual temp last night..
Come on Spring!
Larry DeMers
Larry DeMers wrote:D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Tom,
Yes, you are correct, there is a difference. One I noted was that the original Perry nut had the cotter pin pass through both the bronze shaft nut AND the zinc. The ElectroGuard has the pin only through the nut and as you describe, the zinc is held on with a 1/4-20 SS bolt through the aft end of the zinc into the cage fitting that is part of the nut.
I have been using the ElectroGuard the last few years(as the Perry is hard to find around here) and have spun off a couple of zincs when that bolt let go. To avoid that, I now secure the bolt with Life Caulk when I install it, even if I do it underwater with the mask and flippers on!
Jeez, we must be getting close to Spring launch....Bill has me thinking about all the chores to complete before launch, and it's going to be wind chills of ZERO here tonight!!!
Dave Stu8mp
demers@sgi.com
Re: Difference between Perry and ElectroGuard nuts...
Yeah..now that would work I believe. You still have the head in full uninsulated contact with the zinc, and the zinc is locked to the screw with silicon rubber. Just try to keep those threads clear, as wella s the head and that should be great.
Thanks,
Larry
demers@sgi.com
Thanks,
Larry
Craig Urquhart wrote: Larry,
Like Dave, I secure my ElectroGuard Zinc with Silicone Adhesive. Rather than going at the threads of the 1/4-20 screw, I pack the Silicone into the tail end of the zinc, covering the screw head to prevent it from backing out. In this way, I avoid compromising the bonding of the zinc to the shaft, and have not lost a zinc in years.
Craig
Satu CD27 #272
Larry DeMers wrote: Dave,
Just a possible caution about not getting too rambunctious with the lifecaulk on the zinc. Don't forget that you have a low voltage connection to that nut via the wire cage and bolt thread. That connection must be the very lowest resistance possible, or the zinc will be less and less effective. In other words, you are trying to bond the zinc to the prop, shaft, and probably the engine too as if it were one. If there is some resistance in that path, the voltage difference between the zinc and the stuff to be protected will increase, leading to increased electrolysis. (kinda like the zinc wasn't there partially). How about using a version of lock-tite instead? I do not know if locktite is ok used undewater or not..as long as it has hardened, it would seem to be ok. If it were applied to the threads, then the screw was inserted, the threads would still make electrical contact at the interface of the screws thread to the bolts thread. The screw would be securely held there against vibration, and there would be loads of physical contact of the zinc to the cage and shaft nut etc.
Or maybe there is still enough incidental contact such that there is no problem? I use the same device, and so far, it looks like new. (but the prop keeps getting smaller and smaller!...just kidding ;^) )
Boy talk about getting the boat bug! We usually have 35-40 deg. out by this time, and the snow is usually getting pretty crispy and scarce. But not this year! I *still* have 4ft. of snow in the yard, and it was -20 deg. actual temp last night..
Come on Spring!
Larry DeMers
Larry DeMers wrote:D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Tom,
Yes, you are correct, there is a difference. One I noted was that the original Perry nut had the cotter pin pass through both the bronze shaft nut AND the zinc. The ElectroGuard has the pin only through the nut and as you describe, the zinc is held on with a 1/4-20 SS bolt through the aft end of the zinc into the cage fitting that is part of the nut.
I have been using the ElectroGuard the last few years(as the Perry is hard to find around here) and have spun off a couple of zincs when that bolt let go. To avoid that, I now secure the bolt with Life Caulk when I install it, even if I do it underwater with the mask and flippers on!
Jeez, we must be getting close to Spring launch....Bill has me thinking about all the chores to complete before launch, and it's going to be wind chills of ZERO here tonight!!!
Dave Stu8mp
demers@sgi.com
Good tip! Thanks.
Isn't this board great!Matt Cawthorne wrote: Dave,
I lost an electro-guard zinc one year and the yard manager explained how to keep from loosing them again. The zinc is cast and can have little burrs or raised areas where it attaches to the nut. The raised area corrodes away and leaves no compressive load to make the lock washer work. The trick is then to put the zinc on and tighten the screw. Give the end of the zinc a hit with a hammer and re-tighten. The hammer hit smashes down any raised areas. Don't kill it with a sledge or get too aggressive with the hammer as you can damage the thrust bearing in your transmission. It has worked for me for 5 or 6 years now.
TomCambria@mindspring.com
Re: I'm going to run a test...
This weekend I'm going to start a test using LocTite "red" to seal a 1/4-20 bolt to a nut "underwater", i.e. in a bucket of water. I'm wondering if the LocTite will set up under water. If it does, maybe this is the easiest way to stop the lost zinc problem.
Test protocol is as follows:
1. Fill bucket with salt water.
2. Drop nut in water.
3. Coat bolt with LocTite.
4. Submerge coated bolt in bucket of water and immediately make it up to the nut.
5. Let experiment stand for a week and then see if the bolt can be removed from the nut easily (but not too easily).
I'll let ya all know what happens.
Only question is, how do I explain what I am doing to the Admiral(she thinks I'm weird enough as it is!)?
Any comments would be appreciated....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei
P.S. By the way, hitting the zinc with a hammer tap has worked well for me also, as someone else noted. I even do it underwater if I have to change the zinc while Hanalei is in the water.
Test protocol is as follows:
1. Fill bucket with salt water.
2. Drop nut in water.
3. Coat bolt with LocTite.
4. Submerge coated bolt in bucket of water and immediately make it up to the nut.
5. Let experiment stand for a week and then see if the bolt can be removed from the nut easily (but not too easily).
I'll let ya all know what happens.
Only question is, how do I explain what I am doing to the Admiral(she thinks I'm weird enough as it is!)?
Any comments would be appreciated....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei
P.S. By the way, hitting the zinc with a hammer tap has worked well for me also, as someone else noted. I even do it underwater if I have to change the zinc while Hanalei is in the water.
Re: I'm going to run a test...
Hi Dave,
Hee, well, maybe explain that this is a little known sailing ritual that helps generate better speed and smoother tacks..or maybe a simple.."nutten honey..just working on a surprise for your birthday!".. that'll hold my admiral until she realizes that her birthday is a long way off etc...then it's time to think about a night out to dinner -real quick.
I would be very interested in hearing how that test goes Dave. Since the stuff does not cure in the presence of O2, it will remain liquid, but I bet it isn't water soluable, so it may work great! My 1/4 x 20 bolt is only screwed down, tight..but not glued. But tacking it down may indeed be a good idea.
Hey, did you read that piece about tapping the zinc with a hammer, to flatten the other end, seating it? I wonder if that might not eliminate the vibrations that are causing the screw to back out in the first place? interesting ideas//
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
demers@sgi.com
Hee, well, maybe explain that this is a little known sailing ritual that helps generate better speed and smoother tacks..or maybe a simple.."nutten honey..just working on a surprise for your birthday!".. that'll hold my admiral until she realizes that her birthday is a long way off etc...then it's time to think about a night out to dinner -real quick.
I would be very interested in hearing how that test goes Dave. Since the stuff does not cure in the presence of O2, it will remain liquid, but I bet it isn't water soluable, so it may work great! My 1/4 x 20 bolt is only screwed down, tight..but not glued. But tacking it down may indeed be a good idea.
Hey, did you read that piece about tapping the zinc with a hammer, to flatten the other end, seating it? I wonder if that might not eliminate the vibrations that are causing the screw to back out in the first place? interesting ideas//
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: This weekend I'm going to start a test using LocTite "red" to seal a 1/4-20 bolt to a nut "underwater", i.e. in a bucket of water. I'm wondering if the LocTite will set up under water. If it does, maybe this is the easiest way to stop the lost zinc problem.
Test protocol is as follows:
1. Fill bucket with salt water.
2. Drop nut in water.
3. Coat bolt with LocTite.
4. Submerge coated bolt in bucket of water and immediately make it up to the nut.
5. Let experiment stand for a week and then see if the bolt can be removed from the nut easily (but not too easily).
I'll let ya all know what happens.
Only question is, how do I explain what I am doing to the Admiral(she thinks I'm weird enough as it is!)?
Any comments would be appreciated....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei
P.S. By the way, hitting the zinc with a hammer tap has worked well for me also, as someone else noted. I even do it underwater if I have to change the zinc while Hanalei is in the water.
demers@sgi.com
Re: I'm going to run a test...
Dave,D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Only question is, how do I explain what I am doing to the Admiral(she thinks I'm weird enough as it is!)?
Any comments would be appreciated....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei
If your "Admiral" is like my Admiral, that's one of the reasons she "keeps me" an allows me to play with my expensive nautical toys! Some of the "hairbrained schemes" hatched under these grey hairs provides her with no end of belly laughs! I think if everything I did was "logical" boredom would be around the next corner! One will get you ten that if your admiral sees you fooling around with some hardware, goop and a bucket of water, the corners of her mouth will curl upward and she'll think, "He's at it again! What's he up to!"
Warren (from a long line of tinkerers)
Setsail728@aol.com
Re: Difference between Perry and ElectroGuard nuts...
Don't forget that the screw doesn't actually make contact with the zinc. There is a star washer between them. So the screw actually contacts the tips of the star washer and the zinc contacts the tips of the other side of the star washer. Perhaps the tips dig in a little bit but when you see the white crud all over the zinc you have to wonder how good the contact can be through there.Larry DeMers wrote: Well, as I said..it was a possible caution. There indeed may be enough incidental contact to establish the milliohm contact you need for the zinc to be 100% effective -when new. But in time, I am somewhat concerned with what happens to the incidental contact. In electronics..incidental contact is not allowed to be considered a viable contact. It must be phyically attached via a clamp or screw usually. (there are probably some exceptions to this..i am not coming up with one now though). So if the screw is needed for the long term elctrical contact, and it is insulated with whatever goop is used, there could be problems. Trouble is..when would you find out that there are problems? After the damage is done.
My suggestion is to consider that screw as a conductor also, making contact with the nut and shaft and *also* the top of the zinc, where it has a fairly tight fit.
You are probably right that there is enough incidental contact, with the cage and shaft nut contact, so that the screw is just for holding the zinc on tight. But the change I propose should not be an expense for a well outfit tool box..just a precaution taken that may -or may not make a difference. But if it costs little or nothing to do, it seems wise to do so, no?
I would like to reiterize..I am not criticizing the method Dave was using. It probably is just dandy. I was merely suggesting that in electronics, small voltages like what exists in this bonding scheme, are easily lost due to corrosion of the contact surfaces. While yes..the contact is clean and brite now..when new, they will not be in a month or two (most likely -it depends on how much electrlysis you experince naturally). The use of the screw to carry current could be all that is left for contact once corrosion does start up.
My old zinc turned all white, porous and chalky over it's entire surface..except under the screw head. I will gaurantee you that there was no electrical contact through that white oxide powder.
But we all do what we gotta do, right?
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 <brrrr>
Walt created this board so that we could be occupied during the winter speculating on electrical continuity through the tips of star washers and momentous philosophical problems such as that rather than out causing trouble somewhere. I like the notion of tapping the zinc also and will definitely tap mine at the haulout in two weeks. We're still sailing here in Calif but we're getting a little tired of the rain.
Larry DeMers wrote:Tom wrote:Larry, Straighten me out here. I thought that the contact between the zinc and the propshaft was via the bronze nut. The inside of the zinc is in contact with the outside of the bronze nut it's entire length and also at the bottom of the zinc where it comes against the collar on the bronze nut. The continuity between the quarter twenty bolt that holds the zinc on and the bronze nut that it threads into I always thought was immaterial, because the inside of the zinc is in contact with the outside of the bronze nut on it's entire surface. Thus you've got several square inches of contact even if you didn't have a bolt there. The bronze nut portion screws onto the prop shaft so you've got absolute contact between the shaft and the bronze nut that slattering 5200 all over the bolt wouldn't affect in any way. You've got contact between the inside of the zinc and the outside of the bronze nut that slattering 5200 on the bolt wouldn't affect in any way. What am I missing here?Larry DeMers wrote: Dave,
Just a possible caution about not getting too rambunctious with the lifecaulk on the zinc. Don't forget that you have a low voltage connection to that nut via the wire cage and bolt thread. That connection must be the very lowest resistance possible, or the zinc will be less and less effective. In other words, you are trying to bond the zinc to the prop, shaft, and probably the engine too as if it were one. If there is some resistance in that path, the voltage difference between the zinc and the stuff to be protected will increase, leading to increased electrolysis. (kinda like the zinc wasn't there partially). How about using a version of lock-tite instead? I do not know if locktite is ok used undewater or not..as long as it has hardened, it would seem to be ok. If it were applied to the threads, then the screw was inserted, the threads would still make electrical contact at the interface of the screws thread to the bolts thread. The screw would be securely held there against vibration, and there would be loads of physical contact of the zinc to the cage and shaft nut etc.
Or maybe there is still enough incidental contact such that there is no problem? I use the same device, and so far, it looks like new. (but the prop keeps getting smaller and smaller!...just kidding ;^) )
Boy talk about getting the boat bug! We usually have 35-40 deg. out by this time, and the snow is usually getting pretty crispy and scarce. But not this year! I *still* have 4ft. of snow in the yard, and it was -20 deg. actual temp last night..
Come on Spring!
Larry DeMers
Larry DeMers wrote:
TomCambria@mindspring.com
Re: spring bug
Well, that makes my day. We're leaving in an hour from now. Just like last week when I flew out to the east coast for a meeting and stayed on the boat..good weather there the day before I left. I was looking forward to raising the new genoa to see how it fits, but the weather changed when I arrived and was cold, foggy, rainy for my three days there.Larry DeMers wrote: Bob,
Be careful..there is a large low coming in Friday evening, that will be creating an icestorm. Temps are warming now (yeah!), and will be around 35 deg. by the weekend, so this white stuff wil be interesting.
good luck..and good skiing.
Larry
I'll be sure to bring klister and a rain parka.
rfl@yerkes.uchicago.edu
Re: Difference between Perry and ElectroGuard nuts...
I believe that star washers were invented to provide a gas tight connection for electrical connections. Odds are that the washer is connecting the screw to the zinc even though the zinc is oxidized.
Ken
parfait@nc.rr.com
Ken
Tom wrote:Don't forget that the screw doesn't actually make contact with the zinc. There is a star washer between them. So the screw actually contacts the tips of the star washer and the zinc contacts the tips of the other side of the star washer. Perhaps the tips dig in a little bit but when you see the white crud all over the zinc you have to wonder how good the contact can be through there.Larry DeMers wrote: Well, as I said..it was a possible caution. There indeed may be enough incidental contact to establish the milliohm contact you need for the zinc to be 100% effective -when new. But in time, I am somewhat concerned with what happens to the incidental contact. In electronics..incidental contact is not allowed to be considered a viable contact. It must be phyically attached via a clamp or screw usually. (there are probably some exceptions to this..i am not coming up with one now though). So if the screw is needed for the long term elctrical contact, and it is insulated with whatever goop is used, there could be problems. Trouble is..when would you find out that there are problems? After the damage is done.
My suggestion is to consider that screw as a conductor also, making contact with the nut and shaft and *also* the top of the zinc, where it has a fairly tight fit.
You are probably right that there is enough incidental contact, with the cage and shaft nut contact, so that the screw is just for holding the zinc on tight. But the change I propose should not be an expense for a well outfit tool box..just a precaution taken that may -or may not make a difference. But if it costs little or nothing to do, it seems wise to do so, no?
I would like to reiterize..I am not criticizing the method Dave was using. It probably is just dandy. I was merely suggesting that in electronics, small voltages like what exists in this bonding scheme, are easily lost due to corrosion of the contact surfaces. While yes..the contact is clean and brite now..when new, they will not be in a month or two (most likely -it depends on how much electrlysis you experince naturally). The use of the screw to carry current could be all that is left for contact once corrosion does start up.
My old zinc turned all white, porous and chalky over it's entire surface..except under the screw head. I will gaurantee you that there was no electrical contact through that white oxide powder.
But we all do what we gotta do, right?
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 <brrrr>
Walt created this board so that we could be occupied during the winter speculating on electrical continuity through the tips of star washers and momentous philosophical problems such as that rather than out causing trouble somewhere. I like the notion of tapping the zinc also and will definitely tap mine at the haulout in two weeks. We're still sailing here in Calif but we're getting a little tired of the rain.
Larry DeMers wrote:Tom wrote: Larry, Straighten me out here. I thought that the contact between the zinc and the propshaft was via the bronze nut. The inside of the zinc is in contact with the outside of the bronze nut it's entire length and also at the bottom of the zinc where it comes against the collar on the bronze nut. The continuity between the quarter twenty bolt that holds the zinc on and the bronze nut that it threads into I always thought was immaterial, because the inside of the zinc is in contact with the outside of the bronze nut on it's entire surface. Thus you've got several square inches of contact even if you didn't have a bolt there. The bronze nut portion screws onto the prop shaft so you've got absolute contact between the shaft and the bronze nut that slattering 5200 all over the bolt wouldn't affect in any way. You've got contact between the inside of the zinc and the outside of the bronze nut that slattering 5200 on the bolt wouldn't affect in any way. What am I missing here?
parfait@nc.rr.com
Re: Difference between Perry and ElectroGuard nuts...
Ken and all,
Boy, you guys expressed it so well..this place is and has always been great! It's fun to talk technical boating once and a while..I mean nobody does that in Chartering World or Sail hardly at all.
I agree with Ken that the star washer was invented to form a gas tight seal between the two interfacing surfaces. This is then going to conduct voltage with little loss..perfect. The electolysis would eat at the zinc from most sides equally, so the screw will still provide good service until the electrolysis undercuts the star washer area. Then it's time to replace the darn thing.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
~~~Shoulda gone to the boat today..but the ice storm got in the way~~~
demers@sgi.com
Boy, you guys expressed it so well..this place is and has always been great! It's fun to talk technical boating once and a while..I mean nobody does that in Chartering World or Sail hardly at all.
I agree with Ken that the star washer was invented to form a gas tight seal between the two interfacing surfaces. This is then going to conduct voltage with little loss..perfect. The electolysis would eat at the zinc from most sides equally, so the screw will still provide good service until the electrolysis undercuts the star washer area. Then it's time to replace the darn thing.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
~~~Shoulda gone to the boat today..but the ice storm got in the way~~~
Tom wrote:Don't forget that the screw doesn't actually make contact with the zinc. There is a star washer between them. So the screw actually contacts the tips of the star washer and the zinc contacts the tips of the other side of the star washer. Perhaps the tips dig in a little bit but when you see the white crud all over the zinc you have to wonder how good the contact can be through there.Larry DeMers wrote: Well, as I said..it was a possible caution. There indeed may be enough incidental contact to establish the milliohm contact you need for the zinc to be 100% effective -when new. But in time, I am somewhat concerned with what happens to the incidental contact. In electronics..incidental contact is not allowed to be considered a viable contact. It must be phyically attached via a clamp or screw usually. (there are probably some exceptions to this..i am not coming up with one now though). So if the screw is needed for the long term elctrical contact, and it is insulated with whatever goop is used, there could be problems. Trouble is..when would you find out that there are problems? After the damage is done.
My suggestion is to consider that screw as a conductor also, making contact with the nut and shaft and *also* the top of the zinc, where it has a fairly tight fit.
You are probably right that there is enough incidental contact, with the cage and shaft nut contact, so that the screw is just for holding the zinc on tight. But the change I propose should not be an expense for a well outfit tool box..just a precaution taken that may -or may not make a difference. But if it costs little or nothing to do, it seems wise to do so, no?
I would like to reiterize..I am not criticizing the method Dave was using. It probably is just dandy. I was merely suggesting that in electronics, small voltages like what exists in this bonding scheme, are easily lost due to corrosion of the contact surfaces. While yes..the contact is clean and brite now..when new, they will not be in a month or two (most likely -it depends on how much electrlysis you experince naturally). The use of the screw to carry current could be all that is left for contact once corrosion does start up.
My old zinc turned all white, porous and chalky over it's entire surface..except under the screw head. I will gaurantee you that there was no electrical contact through that white oxide powder.
But we all do what we gotta do, right?
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 <brrrr>
Walt created this board so that we could be occupied during the winter speculating on electrical continuity through the tips of star washers and momentous philosophical problems such as that rather than out causing trouble somewhere. I like the notion of tapping the zinc also and will definitely tap mine at the haulout in two weeks. We're still sailing here in Calif but we're getting a little tired of the rain.
Larry DeMers wrote:Tom wrote: Larry, Straighten me out here. I thought that the contact between the zinc and the propshaft was via the bronze nut. The inside of the zinc is in contact with the outside of the bronze nut it's entire length and also at the bottom of the zinc where it comes against the collar on the bronze nut. The continuity between the quarter twenty bolt that holds the zinc on and the bronze nut that it threads into I always thought was immaterial, because the inside of the zinc is in contact with the outside of the bronze nut on it's entire surface. Thus you've got several square inches of contact even if you didn't have a bolt there. The bronze nut portion screws onto the prop shaft so you've got absolute contact between the shaft and the bronze nut that slattering 5200 all over the bolt wouldn't affect in any way. You've got contact between the inside of the zinc and the outside of the bronze nut that slattering 5200 on the bolt wouldn't affect in any way. What am I missing here?
demers@sgi.com
Re: I'm going to run a test...
David,
I lost a couple zincs until a friend of mine who works at Loctite said use the blue loctite. I always use it before launching and I have not lost one since. The guy at Loctite said the red was to hard to remove which you may already have found out. I used it on the CD30 for years and the 36 last year with no problems.
Dennis Robinett
CD36 Nepenthe
CDSailor@aol.com
I lost a couple zincs until a friend of mine who works at Loctite said use the blue loctite. I always use it before launching and I have not lost one since. The guy at Loctite said the red was to hard to remove which you may already have found out. I used it on the CD30 for years and the 36 last year with no problems.
Dennis Robinett
CD36 Nepenthe
CDSailor@aol.com
Re: Prop Zinc
What clearance is required between the end of the shaft and the rudder to accommodate the "Perry nut" and sacrificial zinc? Does West Marine's version require the same dimensions? On our CD27, there was insuffiicent shaft ahead of the prop for a donut zinc, and there was also insufficient clearance between the end of the shaft and the rudder for the bronze-nut-and-zinc combo (not, I think, a genuine "Perry nut") sold by the local chandlery. So I resorted to what we see on a lot of Cape Dories hereabouts, screwing a conical zinc right onto the end of the shaft. In fact, clearance was so tight that I had to saw the tip off the zinc! Our "new" CD 31 presents the same problem, and the previous owner had adopted the same solution: screwing the zinc right onto the shaft. (Incidentially, neither he nor I have suffered either the loss of the zinc nor electrolytic damage.)
David Brownlee
CD31 #1 WINDRUSH
Havre de Grace, MD
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu
David Brownlee
CD31 #1 WINDRUSH
Havre de Grace, MD
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu
Re: Prop Zinc
I had to go to the boat to find the name where I had written it in the back of my owner's manual: Arvid, INc. @Havre De Grace Marina, Water STreet, HDG, MD, 21078 - sorry, I didn't have the phone number written there.Keith wrote:Bill:Bill wrote: Hello to All
Thanks to alll who responded to the Electrical Panel ??'s and now for a new one.
Where do I get a new perry nut for the prop? More importantly, how do I get the old one off?
Thanks in Advance
I replaced the perry nut on Witness last spring. I will get the name of the co. in Haver de Grace, MD and send it to you directly. The guy there knows Cape Dories, and had the item in stock - got it to me right away.
also got this off the package: Perry's Boat Harbor & Drydock, Isleton, CA 95641
For the CD25-D: Thread diameter 3/4"; No. of threads 10RH;
Nut diameter 1 3/4"