seek suggestions for installing jack lines on CD27

[Joel]

As a new Cape dory owner (haven't sailed her yet), I'm looking forward to spring and getting to know my boat. I am using the winter months to get her ready. Since I do most of my sailing single handed or with my 8 year old daughter, I was thinking that putting Jack lines on the boat (a Cape Dory 27) might be a good idea -- then I could use a harness when I need to go forward. I'd appreciate suggestions on the best materials to use and what the options are for installing the lines on the boat. Do I need to install hardware or are they cleated off? Do they pose a tripping hazard? How do you arrange them so they don't detract from the looks of the vessel? Thanks for any advice.



joels@ids.net

[Bob Pence]

As a new Cape dory owner (haven't sailed her yet), I'm looking forward to spring and getting to know my boat. I am using the winter months to get her ready. Since I do most of my sailing single handed or with my 8 year old daughter, I was thinking that putting Jack lines on the boat (a Cape Dory 27) might be a good idea -- then I could use a harness when I need to go forward. I'd appreciate suggestions on the best materials to use and what the options are for installing the lines on the boat. Do I need to install hardware or are they cleated off? Do they pose a tripping hazard? How do you arrange them so they don't detract from the looks of the vessel? Thanks for any advice.

I have seen jack lines made from plastic coated lifeline,1" webbed material with snap hooks at each end. Fasten to a pad eye just aft of the bowsprit and to the aft, center, top of the cabin. This way you can snap on the tether and walk the length of the boat without unhooking and rehooking. With well over 1500 days sailing I can only remember 3 occasions when I donned the safety harness and worked my way forward snapping to the lifeline and I weigh 250 lbs. I know of no cruisers that wear harness other than under severe conditions. I single handed from the Chesapeake to Ft.Lauderdale and never felt the necessity of the harness. Always remember,"One hand for yourself and one for the boat" and 99.9% of the time that will handle the situation. Those that know me or who have sailed with me consider me a cautious and conservative sailor. "A superior sailor is one who does not put himself into situations requiring demonstration of his superior skills."



sixpence@dmv.com

[John R.]

With an 8 year old child on board I'd definitely have the jacklines installed and also harness attachment points in the cockpit as well. Even if the child never leaves the cockpit what will she do if you go over the side. In my opinion there is no excuse not to have jacklines. I use 1' webbing that attaches to each stern cleat with locking snap hooks and the webbing travels forward through the eye of both bow cleats then circles around to the stern cleat on the opposite side. Webbing does not roll under foot like wire does but it will stretch and wire won't, the stretch is good I think. Webbing will age from UV exposure and wire swages will corrode from salt. The webbing is easy to remove and store. I've seen coated wire jacklines run fore and aft along the bottom of the cabin sides, slightly above the deck from one diamond pad eye aft to another one forward. It looked neat and was not a tripping hazard at all. The pad eyes were bronze and the wire was lifeline cable so everything blended in nicely with the CD36 it was rigged on.

[Mark Yashinsky]

Think about sailing lessons (from the old man???), so if something happens to you (doesnt have to be going in the drink), she can do something, like getting on the radio, stoping the boat, getting somewhere. She is not too young, either. Friends have had their eldest going to summer sailing camp since he was 8 and my daughter is doing the same camp this summer (she's now 10).

[John Doyle]

As a new Cape dory owner (haven't sailed her yet), I'm looking forward to spring and getting to know my boat. I am using the winter months to get her ready. Since I do most of my sailing single handed or with my 8 year old daughter, I was thinking that putting Jack lines on the boat (a Cape Dory 27) might be a good idea -- then I could use a harness when I need to go forward. I'd appreciate suggestions on the best materials to use and what the options are for installing the lines on the boat. Do I need to install hardware or are they cleated off? Do they pose a tripping hazard? How do you arrange them so they don't detract from the looks of the vessel? Thanks for any advice.

When I sail offshore or single handed, I rig temporary jack lines with spare jib sheets tied from the bow cleat to the stern cleat on each side. We always wear a harness offshore when not below no matter how many people are aboard. There are usually many spots to clip on around the cockpit & then just move to the jack line when going on deck.



redzeplin@yahoo.com

[Larry DeMers]

Good Idea! A single hander, truly by himself is one thing. A single hander with a child aboard is another.
We rig jacklines anytime we are uncomfortable with the wind/waves/weather. We simply have the flat braided line that West Marine sells. Order about 3ft. more than you need. Also order two locking carabiners for the ends. We mounted a diamond pad eye on the stern quarters, in front of the stern cleats.
The locking carabiner goes around this diamond pad, up the side deck to the bow, where we attach to the bow cleats. This braided line will change dimensions in the sun, so leave a foot of spare line when putting the system together. We tied the carabiners onto the flat braid, then sewed the free end back so that it cannot come loose under any circumstance.

We clip on as we get up to leave the cockpit. The tether for the harness drags behind you without fouling (important). The reason why we do this? Water temps on Lk. Superior int he spring are at around 35 deg. Even in mid summer the mid lake temps are rarely above 45 deg. Your survival time in the water is less than a minute to maybe 3 minutes in mid summer. You do not wnat to become separated from the boat.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~

As a new Cape dory owner (haven't sailed her yet), I'm looking forward to spring and getting to know my boat. I am using the winter months to get her ready. Since I do most of my sailing single handed or with my 8 year old daughter, I was thinking that putting Jack lines on the boat (a Cape Dory 27) might be a good idea -- then I could use a harness when I need to go forward. I'd appreciate suggestions on the best materials to use and what the options are for installing the lines on the boat. Do I need to install hardware or are they cleated off? Do they pose a tripping hazard? How do you arrange them so they don't detract from the looks of the vessel? Thanks for any advice.

demers@sgi.com

[Bill]

I would like to know how you prevent the carabiners from scuffing the deck. Are they rubber coated? Climbing biners certainly arent.

Thanks
Bill

Good Idea! A single hander, truly by himself is one thing. A single hander with a child aboard is another.
We rig jacklines anytime we are uncomfortable with the wind/waves/weather. We simply have the flat braided line that West Marine sells. Order about 3ft. more than you need. Also order two locking carabiners for the ends. We mounted a diamond pad eye on the stern quarters, in front of the stern cleats.
The locking carabiner goes around this diamond pad, up the side deck to the bow, where we attach to the bow cleats. This braided line will change dimensions in the sun, so leave a foot of spare line when putting the system together. We tied the carabiners onto the flat braid, then sewed the free end back so that it cannot come loose under any circumstance.

We clip on as we get up to leave the cockpit. The tether for the harness drags behind you without fouling (important). The reason why we do this? Water temps on Lk. Superior int he spring are at around 35 deg. Even in mid summer the mid lake temps are rarely above 45 deg. Your survival time in the water is less than a minute to maybe 3 minutes in mid summer. You do not wnat to become separated from the boat.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~

As a new Cape dory owner (haven't sailed her yet), I'm looking forward to spring and getting to know my boat. I am using the winter months to get her ready. Since I do most of my sailing single handed or with my 8 year old daughter, I was thinking that putting Jack lines on the boat (a Cape Dory 27) might be a good idea -- then I could use a harness when I need to go forward. I'd appreciate suggestions on the best materials to use and what the options are for installing the lines on the boat. Do I need to install hardware or are they cleated off? Do they pose a tripping hazard? How do you arrange them so they don't detract from the looks of the vessel? Thanks for any advice.

cd25d@rhapsodysails.com

[Bill DeCamp]

As a new Cape dory owner (haven't sailed her yet), I'm looking forward to spring and getting to know my boat. I am using the winter months to get her ready. Since I do most of my sailing single handed or with my 8 year old daughter, I was thinking that putting Jack lines on the boat (a Cape Dory 27) might be a good idea -- then I could use a harness when I need to go forward. I'd appreciate suggestions on the best materials to use and what the options are for installing the lines on the boat. Do I need to install hardware or are they cleated off? Do they pose a tripping hazard? How do you arrange them so they don't detract from the looks of the vessel? Thanks for any advice.

;The flat nylon type work very well,also don't buy anything but the best safety harnesses with double lanyards and high quality snap hooks on each end.You might also invest in a Life Sling should someone go overboard.
Bill & Jayne
Infinity CD28 hull#342



tocoiriverrats@aol.com

[Larry DeMers]

Why would the carabiners scuff the deck? They don't move at all when attached to the boat. Perhaps what you mean is, are the harness tether connections rubber coated. No these are also not rubber coated. We try to pick them up in one hand when walking, so they don't snag on objects..and so they don't scuff the deck. But frankly, scuffing the deck takes a back seat to safety on our boat. However, a suitably fashioned piece of cowhide could be fashioned to partially cover the whole harness clip loosely, allowing the cowhide to absorb any scuffing..not a bad idea as long as it does not interfere with access to the clip.

But no, the carabiners (located at either end of the lazy jacks) are not rubber coated..you don't want anything made of S.S. to be coated in anything. S.S needs oxygen in order to keep it's oxide coating, which is what makes it relatively rust-free (316 anyway..not so with 304). Covering a S.S. device in rubber will gaurantee that crevice corrosion will occur.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I would like to know how you prevent the carabiners from scuffing the deck. Are they rubber coated? Climbing biners certainly arent.

Thanks
Bill

Good Idea! A single hander, truly by himself is one thing. A single hander with a child aboard is another.
We rig jacklines anytime we are uncomfortable with the wind/waves/weather. We simply have the flat braided line that West Marine sells. Order about 3ft. more than you need. Also order two locking carabiners for the ends. We mounted a diamond pad eye on the stern quarters, in front of the stern cleats.
The locking carabiner goes around this diamond pad, up the side deck to the bow, where we attach to the bow cleats. This braided line will change dimensions in the sun, so leave a foot of spare line when putting the system together. We tied the carabiners onto the flat braid, then sewed the free end back so that it cannot come loose under any circumstance.

We clip on as we get up to leave the cockpit. The tether for the harness drags behind you without fouling (important). The reason why we do this? Water temps on Lk. Superior int he spring are at around 35 deg. Even in mid summer the mid lake temps are rarely above 45 deg. Your survival time in the water is less than a minute to maybe 3 minutes in mid summer. You do not wnat to become separated from the boat.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~

As a new Cape dory owner (haven't sailed her yet), I'm looking forward to spring and getting to know my boat. I am using the winter months to get her ready. Since I do most of my sailing single handed or with my 8 year old daughter, I was thinking that putting Jack lines on the boat (a Cape Dory 27) might be a good idea -- then I could use a harness when I need to go forward. I'd appreciate suggestions on the best materials to use and what the options are for installing the lines on the boat. Do I need to install hardware or are they cleated off? Do they pose a tripping hazard? How do you arrange them so they don't detract from the looks of the vessel? Thanks for any advice.

demers@sgi.com

[Joe]

With an 8 year old child on board I'd definitely have the jacklines installed and also harness attachment points in the cockpit as well. Even if the child never leaves the cockpit what will she do if you go over the side. In my opinion there is no excuse not to have jacklines. I use 1' webbing that attaches to each stern cleat with locking snap hooks and the webbing travels forward through the eye of both bow cleats then circles around to the stern cleat on the opposite side. Webbing does not roll under foot like wire does but it will stretch and wire won't, the stretch is good I think. Webbing will age from UV exposure and wire swages will corrode from salt. The webbing is easy to remove and store. I've seen coated wire jacklines run fore and aft along the bottom of the cabin sides, slightly above the deck from one diamond pad eye aft to another one forward. It looked neat and was not a tripping hazard at all. The pad eyes were bronze and the wire was lifeline cable so everything blended in nicely with the CD36 it was rigged on.

Our 330 is rigged as John describes. White vinyl coated lifeline cable along the bottom of the cabin sides. Our pad eyes are stainless which offer more strength than bronze. Inside are 3x4" stainless backing plates -- if you go this route, DON'T forget the backing plates. It is always in place and never underfoot. You can't tell it's there from ten feet away. When the blow comes up, there's no lines to set/tie on either side so you can deal with other urgent matters with full confidence that the lines will hold.

To wrap it up, we use the SOS combination harness/inflatable PFDs with elastic teathers. We've ridden out four or five huricanes about 10 miles of the coast of Maine with no equipment failures.

Joe



tgjournal@gestalt.org

[Bill]

I'm sorry Larry, I was unclear with my Question. yes I was talking about the carabiners on the tethers. I use figure eight knots on the ends of my jack lines (backed up with stitching of the loose ends) and girth hitched to the cleats as opposed to using 'biners...I am fully aware of the importance of being attached to the boat.

Bill

Why would the carabiners scuff the deck? They don't move at all when attached to the boat. Perhaps what you mean is, are the harness tether connections rubber coated. No these are also not rubber coated. We try to pick them up in one hand when walking, so they don't snag on objects..and so they don't scuff the deck. But frankly, scuffing the deck takes a back seat to safety on our boat. However, a suitably fashioned piece of cowhide could be fashioned to partially cover the whole harness clip loosely, allowing the cowhide to absorb any scuffing..not a bad idea as long as it does not interfere with access to the clip.

But no, the carabiners (located at either end of the lazy jacks) are not rubber coated..you don't want anything made of S.S. to be coated in anything. S.S needs oxygen in order to keep it's oxide coating, which is what makes it relatively rust-free (316 anyway..not so with 304). Covering a S.S. device in rubber will gaurantee that crevice corrosion will occur.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I would like to know how you prevent the carabiners from scuffing the deck. Are they rubber coated? Climbing biners certainly arent.

Thanks
Bill

Good Idea! A single hander, truly by himself is one thing. A single hander with a child aboard is another.
We rig jacklines anytime we are uncomfortable with the wind/waves/weather. We simply have the flat braided line that West Marine sells. Order about 3ft. more than you need. Also order two locking carabiners for the ends. We mounted a diamond pad eye on the stern quarters, in front of the stern cleats.
The locking carabiner goes around this diamond pad, up the side deck to the bow, where we attach to the bow cleats. This braided line will change dimensions in the sun, so leave a foot of spare line when putting the system together. We tied the carabiners onto the flat braid, then sewed the free end back so that it cannot come loose under any circumstance.

We clip on as we get up to leave the cockpit. The tether for the harness drags behind you without fouling (important). The reason why we do this? Water temps on Lk. Superior int he spring are at around 35 deg. Even in mid summer the mid lake temps are rarely above 45 deg. Your survival time in the water is less than a minute to maybe 3 minutes in mid summer. You do not wnat to become separated from the boat.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~

cd25d@rhapsodysails.com

[Bob Malinka]

As a new Cape dory owner (haven't sailed her yet), I'm looking forward to spring and getting to know my boat. I am using the winter months to get her ready. Since I do most of my sailing single handed or with my 8 year old daughter, I was thinking that putting Jack lines on the boat (a Cape Dory 27) might be a good idea -- then I could use a harness when I need to go forward. I'd appreciate suggestions on the best materials to use and what the options are for installing the lines on the boat. Do I need to install hardware or are they cleated off? Do they pose a tripping hazard? How do you arrange them so they don't detract from the looks of the vessel? Thanks for any advice.

====================================

I also have an 8 year old son who sails with me. I have rigged jack lines from the cleats fore and aft. Always use a harness on deck but also made sure that should I go over the side I can get to the back of the boat where I have the ladder to reboard tied off with bungee cords. I can grab it while in the water with no problems and pull the ladder down to board. We also have a life sling off of the stern pulpit which my son and I have reviewed the procedure to deploy it should someone go overboard. I have put my son at the helm and conducted practice drills for the overboard procedures. With young children it's a good idea to get the routines worked out ahead of time. We also have one which we employ when we run aground which helped out last summer as the Captain was not paying attention to the depth gauge as he should have in shallow water. We went up on a sand bar and with my son at the helm and my friend and I out on the rail we managed to heel enough to power off with no damage to the rudder. You will find that children can absorb an awfull lot of information if everything is well planned out ahead of time so it becomes routine if that event should happen. I have been on the water sailing all my life and have been fortunate to not go overboard but we must always be prepared should it occur. Invest in the best equipment you can buy and practice the overboard procedures. My son has been instructed on how to release the jib and manuever the boat under the mainsail to recover MOB. You might start with having your daughter take the helm while anchoring to get the hang of manuevering the boat. Then practice your MOB procedures with the equipment with someone in the water.

Bob



ranger1442@hotmail.com