Pros and cons of lines led aft

[freitknecht]

Trying to decide whether to run lines aft while doing some deck repair on a 27. I mostly single hand but have a tiller pilot. Generally, I like to keep things simple and wonder if it actually makes it more difficult to raise and douse sail, reef,etc with the additional blocks and friction or if it offers significant advantages. Thanks.

[Steve Laume]

Are you comfortable moving around on your boat and making your way to the mast when you would need to reef? How many lines do you want to deal with in the cockpit? Are you going to keep the original sail track and lugs? What do you do about the boom vang and topping lift? Will you need a down haul if you keep your original sail slides? Are you going to try to rig a single line reefing system and then bring that back? And the second reef? Or will you go with double lines to reduce friction. What happens when something jambs? So, main halyard, down haul or modify the sail track, four reef lines, topping lift and vang. Then you still have to go forward to raise any down wind sails and to rig a preventer.

I almost always single hand my boat and you can probably tell that I have not lead any lines back to the cockpit, Steve.

[Sea Hunt Video]

I am grateful for this thread and hope that there are many, many posts offering various perspectives.

As most on this board know, I have been planning for many months to install deck hardware for the purpose of leading the main halyard and reefing lines aft to the cockpit. There is a lengthy thread on the subject with many contributions and photos by Tim, Jim W., Warren K., Steve B., and others:

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... deck+winch

I had ended my "research" and had made the decision to do it a while ago. Unfortunately, a medical issue and a family matter have kept me from starting to drill holes in the deck.

My sole purpose in wanting to bring the halyard and reefing lines aft is that I am old, fat and out of shape. I want(ed) to reduce "on deck" risk as much as possible, especially because most of my sailing would be solo.

As I said, I hope there are many, many posts discussing the pros and cons. Thank you for starting this thread.

[Steve Laume]

This is not a rhetorical question; if you are trying to raise, lower, or reef your main and it hangs up, then what do you do?

I can get at everything while standing securely clipped in at the mast. I also have butt boards on my lower shrouds, that I can lean back into, so it is a pretty comfortable place that I am used to working in. All of the lines that control the main, except for the sheet, are right there. If you are raising or reefing from the cockpit and the slugs hang up, do you cleat off the halyard, go to the mast to free it and then head back to the cockpit and try again? What happens when it is blowing and rainy in an area where you want to be able to see and you were able to set a reef from the cockpit? Do you then climb up on the coach roof to tie up the sail or just leave the whole mess hanging there to fill up with water because you are not used to working up there? I would just tidy that up on my way back.

Getting back to the original post; I would suggest that you rig up a good system for jack lines on deck. Spend some money on a good harness and a double tether. A bonus would be to add some sort of support at the mast that you could lean against. You are going to wantf this stuff anyway so do that first. Sail the boat for a season and see if you still think you want to run all those lines into the cockpit or if you think it might actually work if you did, Steve.

[tjr818]

Leading the lines aft in no way prevents you from going forward to raise, lower, or reef. Leading the lines to the cockpit gives you options.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Tim and all:

I apologize. When I said "leading the lines aft" I meant leading the main halyard back to cockpit. This also applies to reefing lines.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Neil Gordon]

i agree with the "keep it simple" notion of going forward and working lines at the mast. If you do it when conditions are friendly, you'll have a way better sense of your boat when things are a bit ugly.

Raising and dousing the main just isn't all that difficult and/or time consuming.

[Steve Laume]

Leading the lines aft in no way prevents you from going forward to raise, lower, or reef. Leading the lines to the cockpit gives you options.

So it is blowing really hard and I am now ready to set my second reef while on a close reach. I ease the sheet until it begins to luff then go to the mast. Once I am clipped in there, I can ease the vang and tension the topping lift just a bit to make it easier to get the reef in. I loosen the halyard and pull down on the luff reefing line (which I have put through the cringle when I set the 1st reef) and then work hard to tension up the clew line in order to get the sail flat. Tension the halyard back up, ease the topping lift and snug the vang. I tie up the loose sail on the way back to the cockpit where I then sheet back in to trim the main. All of this is pretty straight forward and doesn't take that long but certainly isn't easy. Especially getting the 2nd reef flat.

I just can't imagine getting it done from the cockpit and the number of lines you would have to deal with to do it. That is where I sit and it is bad enough having the main and staysail sheets on the port side. If anything hangs up you do have the option of going to the mast to deal with it but everything is cleated off in the cockpit and you no longer have the help of a winch or snubber at your disposal at the mast. So now you might find yourself moving back and forth a number of times to deal with problems that will only happen in the worst of times. If you do have your halyard lead to the cockpit is one of your options to cleat it off at the mast if you have to go up there to deal with a hang up? Do you keep all the hardware on the mast and boom, just in case?

I can't say that I enjoy going up to the mast to deal with reefing but at least I know I will be able to get it done quickly and efficiently, every time, Steve.

[moctrams]

Everyone I know wonders when to reef. If you have another crew at the helm it is easy to head up some and go up on deck to handle the reefing chore. My head sails are roller furling and the halyards are on the port side of the mast while the main halyard and jiffy reefing line are on the starboard side. I single hand and when I decide to reef, I head up with the auto-pilot; then go up on deck to reef. When I sail at night, I always put in a reef before sundown. I’m always hooked in and do not stand up on the deck to reef. I can sit down on the deck for all of the reefing operations. A friend of mine has his main halyard brought back to the cockpit and it never works out well when he raises/lowers the main. The turning block on the deck always jams. I figure that when the day comes I can no longer get up on deck to handle the main, it’s time to “swallow the anchor”.

[Neil Gordon]

>>Everyone I know wonders when to reef.<<

If you're thinking about it, it's time!

I find heaving to a great way to settle the boat for tucking in a reef.

[Sea Hunt Video]

I figure that when the day comes I can no longer get up on deck to handle the main, it’s time to “swallow the anchor”.

Sadly, you may be right.

The good news is that I have not yet drilled the first hole in S/V Bali Ha'i's deck. I also have not yet bought any expensive hardware.

I will admit to being conflicted. I have great respect for the experience and advise of Steve L., Neil G. and others. I will take it to heart and re-think my plan.

I know that in the world of diving I often times come across someone who wants to set up his/her rig in a certain way that I know from experience is not a good idea. If asked I try to suggest why their rig configuration is not the best.

Steve L., Neil G. and all, I want you to know I am honestly grateful for the time you take to explain what you do and why you do it. For someone like me it is VERY helpful.

Thank you. I am once again "on the rail" about this but I have solid real world experience from this board to guide me - whatever I finally decide.

[tjr818]

I believe that a lot of this depends on the type of sailing that you intend to do. Do you sail singlehanded? Are you going offshore? Do you intend to make overnight passages? Do you have a cutter, a sloop, or a catboat? Are you a day sailor?
I believe that you should have the right equipment for any condition that you may encounter. There are times as an inland sailor on a major waterway that I feel the need to harness in, but most of my sailing is day sailing in fair weather. When I am doing that I enjoy the ability to raise and lower the main from the cockpit. I can control the main halyard, boom vang, topping lift, and lazy jacks all from the comfort of the cockpit. If I do need to reef, I will take the proper precautions and go to the mast. As I said before, leading the lines aft in no way prevents you from going forward to raise, lower, or reef. Leading the lines to the cockpit gives you options.

[Stan W.]

Surprised nobody else mentioned this but in my opinion running the mainsail halyard aft only makes sense if you install one of the external track and slide systems ($$$). They are so smooth you do not even need a downhaul. Otherwise, your sail slugs will just get jammed in the track and you'll be up at the mast all the time anyway.

[tjr818]

Surprised nobody else mentioned this but in my opinion running the mainsail halyard aft only makes sense if you install one of the external track and slide systems ($$$). They are so smooth you do not even need a downhaul. Otherwise, your sail slugs will just get jammed in the track and you'll be up at the mast all the time anyway.

I just assumed that everyone had StrongTrack Expensive yes, but hey, you own a sailboat. While StrongTrack might seem expensive it is one of the best improvements we have made to Slainte.

[John Stone]

This topic is becoming almost as popular and devisive as "should one lock the propeller shaft or let it free-wheel".

I don't pretend to think my way is the only way or right way. Every skipper has to sort this out for themselves. Know yourself and what you like and go forth accordingly. Tim is a very experienced and competent sailor and he likes the halyard, etc led aft to the cockpit. I know many people that prefer such a set up. So who is to say it's wrong. As long as you like your set up, it's reliable, it's safe, and simplifies your life then go for it.

For me, I agree with Steve L. 100 percent. I also have a strong track, so I am sure the sail will go up or down with minimal friction. But I don't like drilling holes in the cabin top--certainly not through deck holes. It's also expensive to add a winch, clutch, line organizer, etc. And, I like going forward. Everything is there that I need--halyards, reefing lines, topping lift, outhaul, etc. I am comfortable there day or night. Inshore or offshore. And my view is, if you get use to going there, then when something gets fouled up, and it will, its business as usual to sort it out. You know what you need, you know how to do it, and you feel safe doing it.

I like being on a simple uncluttered boat. But, one man's "simple" is another man's "way-too-hard."