Anyone care to comment on a comparison between installing a Force 10 Cabin Heater versus using inverted clay pots on top of the burners on the propane stove? Certainly the Force 10 makes a nice appearence and does a fine job. However, I believe we're looking at $400+ if you include the extra tank (kerosene model.) There is some labor involved as well as cutting a hole in the boat! Yikes!!! Leaks!!! Granted, the pots are not an ideal solution, but under certain conditions, as in a nice quiet anchorage, they might provide adequate warmth. Do they radiate as much heat as the Force 10?
Anyway, THINK SPRING!!!
Richard Feffer
CD30MKII
"Adamarie"
RichFef@Prodigy.net
Force 10 Cabin Heater vs. clay pots?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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John
Re: Force 10 Cabin Heater vs. clay pots?
I don't know about clay pots but I have a Force 10 on my CD26 and I don't like it. Believe it or not you need a funnel, a bicycle pump, a bottle of alcohol, a syringe, matches or other lighter, some rags to wipe up with, and a whole lot of fresh air to operate it. Yes, I've had to repair a leak where the exhaust pipe exits up through the deck. It's also somewhat noisy as the fuel is under low pressure as it enters the burner, and many people complain about the smell of un-burned fuel. I guess forced air diesel heat is the way to go, but those of us with outboards and a lack of battery power are probably out of luck. I'm looking for a better system myself.
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David Brownlee
Re: Force 10 Cabin Heater vs. clay pots?
We used clay pots on our CD25 and CD27, and we plan to do the same (for a while at least) on our "new" CD31. Our only complaint over the years is that the heat isn't really where you'd like it. The stove just isn't where you want the heat--up between the berths.
Does anyone have any experience with the little Origo alcohol portable heater? It uses the same foolproof system that is employed in their stoves. Some day we'd like to have a "real" heater--one that burns coal and or wood.
Ann and David Brownlee
CD 31 #1 "Windrush"
Havre de Grace, MD
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu
Does anyone have any experience with the little Origo alcohol portable heater? It uses the same foolproof system that is employed in their stoves. Some day we'd like to have a "real" heater--one that burns coal and or wood.
Ann and David Brownlee
CD 31 #1 "Windrush"
Havre de Grace, MD
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu
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Joe Wysong
Origo Heater
We've used the Origo heater for several years on our CD 330. Works well, heats well. I would not, however, call it "little." It's about a foot high by about a foot wide. It also makes an effective backup stove should you run out of propane in the middle of nowhere. Even though it costs about $2.00 more per gallon, I strongly recommend the odor-soot free stove alcohol sold by West Marine and others. The absence of the sticky-sweet alcohol odor is a boon.David Brownlee wrote: We used clay pots on our CD25 and CD27, and we plan to do the same (for a while at least) on our "new" CD31. Our only complaint over the years is that the heat isn't really where you'd like it. The stove just isn't where you want the heat--up between the berths.
Does anyone have any experience with the little Origo alcohol portable heater? It uses the same foolproof system that is employed in their stoves. Some day we'd like to have a "real" heater--one that burns coal and or wood.
Ann and David Brownlee
CD 31 #1 "Windrush"
Havre de Grace, MD
Joe
tgjournal@gestalt.org
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Liz Robinson
Re: Origo Heater
I second Joe's comments. Aboard our CD 33 we have used the Origo in combination with our 3 oil lamps aboard and have been relatively comfortable in temperatures down to and below freezing. If it is calm enough, put your Origo heater in the V-berth 1/2 hour before going to bed and it will warm up the area very well. What we prefer is to close up the v-berth door and sleep in the saloon area where we have spent the evening heating up the area and leave the Origo on low all night. It usually lasts, on a low setting, until time to get up. The air exchange is better in the open area; when it is that cold you end up creating so much condensation on the inside of the hatch that you wake up with water dripping on you and the v-berth area is damp. It is a shame that SOME of us have such a short sailing season that we are forced to live in these conditions...
Also, it is truly amazing how much additional heat one or two candles can generate, again if conditions permit.
Liz R.
Also, it is truly amazing how much additional heat one or two candles can generate, again if conditions permit.
Liz R.
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Ken Cave
Re: Force 10 Cabin Heater vs. clay pots?
You might try a squirt bottle for the alchol that is needed to prime the unit. Works great! As far as the bicycle pump is concerned, I carry one on board (a small unit that mounts on a bicycle) and have used it once in the past year to recharge the system.
If you do not want to use alchol to preheat the burner, use a propane torch.
As the for the smell, use the high quality white kerosene that is sold at West Marine, or any good hardware store. Costs around $5.00 a gallon, but a gallon will last you a year!
Don't throw your Force 10 away! They are probably as safe as any heater can get, and, no worry about condensation either!!
Ken Cave
bcave@whidbey.net
If you do not want to use alchol to preheat the burner, use a propane torch.
As the for the smell, use the high quality white kerosene that is sold at West Marine, or any good hardware store. Costs around $5.00 a gallon, but a gallon will last you a year!
Don't throw your Force 10 away! They are probably as safe as any heater can get, and, no worry about condensation either!!
Ken Cave
bcave@whidbey.net
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: Force 10 Cabin Heater vs. clay pots?
Richard,
Never tried the clay pots, but do have the force 10 kerosene heater on my CD-36. It works ok, but not a good as the forced hot air type unit. Leaks should not be a problem. When I have gone off shore I cap off the chimney to keep things dry below. I use a little squirt bottle of alcohol so there is no mess priming it. The thought of asphyxiation would keep me awake even with a CO detector so I do not leave it running. Why are you considering the kerosene unit if you already have propane on your boat? Propane has the BOOM factor, but if you are already willing to accept that then the propane unit is easy to start, has (or at least used to) auto shut-off features, and has no need for the extra tank or priming alcohol. In addition the chimney would keep down the condensation that contributes to the mildew.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
Never tried the clay pots, but do have the force 10 kerosene heater on my CD-36. It works ok, but not a good as the forced hot air type unit. Leaks should not be a problem. When I have gone off shore I cap off the chimney to keep things dry below. I use a little squirt bottle of alcohol so there is no mess priming it. The thought of asphyxiation would keep me awake even with a CO detector so I do not leave it running. Why are you considering the kerosene unit if you already have propane on your boat? Propane has the BOOM factor, but if you are already willing to accept that then the propane unit is easy to start, has (or at least used to) auto shut-off features, and has no need for the extra tank or priming alcohol. In addition the chimney would keep down the condensation that contributes to the mildew.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Ken Cave
Re: Have you tried a small fan?
I mounted a small two speed fan on the opposite side of my Force 10.
Running the fan on low while the heater is on does wonders in getting the warm air all around the cabin area, as well as some in the forward berth.
Sure beats thousands of dollars for a forced air furnace which also comes with headaches such as glo-plugs, etc.
I also use propane for my stove, but found it actually cheaper (and safer) to install a two gallon tank for kerosene than trying to figure where to run approximately 20 feet of hose from the stern of the boat (where my bottle is located), a Y valve assembly, and all the other goodies to make it safe.
Besides, if, in the event I need fuel for my engine, this is a ready source (though an expensive one!)
Ken Cave
bcave@whidbey.net
Running the fan on low while the heater is on does wonders in getting the warm air all around the cabin area, as well as some in the forward berth.
Sure beats thousands of dollars for a forced air furnace which also comes with headaches such as glo-plugs, etc.
I also use propane for my stove, but found it actually cheaper (and safer) to install a two gallon tank for kerosene than trying to figure where to run approximately 20 feet of hose from the stern of the boat (where my bottle is located), a Y valve assembly, and all the other goodies to make it safe.
Besides, if, in the event I need fuel for my engine, this is a ready source (though an expensive one!)
Ken Cave
bcave@whidbey.net
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Tom Young
Re: Force 10 Cabin Heater vs. clay pots?
Maybe I missed something. If you have propane onboard, why not install the F 10 propane heater. We have had one on our CD28 with great success. Easy to light, smoke free. It makes sailing in Maine delightful. Comparing heating flower pots on your burner and this heater is the same as a vented furnace and an open fire in a tee-pee.
fish@mint.net
fish@mint.net
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: Have you tried a small fan?
Ken,
I have one of those small Caframo fans that sits on the shelf at the top of the closet next to the heater. It really does help. It will not heat the cabin like an Espar heater though.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I have one of those small Caframo fans that sits on the shelf at the top of the closet next to the heater. It really does help. It will not heat the cabin like an Espar heater though.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Pedro Alomar
Re: Force 10 Cabin Heater vs. clay pots?
I always have used solid fuel stove, see the http://www.bengco.co.uk/ they make nice heaters and much cheaper than Force 10 the petrol stoves soon or later have leaks and smell a bit beside any stove that works with flame spends much more oxygen than the ones than use solid fuel.Richard Feffer wrote: Anyone care to comment on a comparison between installing a Force 10 Cabin Heater versus using inverted clay pots on top of the burners on the propane stove? Certainly the Force 10 makes a nice appearence and does a fine job. However, I believe we're looking at $400+ if you include the extra tank (kerosene model.) There is some labor involved as well as cutting a hole in the boat! Yikes!!! Leaks!!! Granted, the pots are not an ideal solution, but under certain conditions, as in a nice quiet anchorage, they might provide adequate warmth. Do they radiate as much heat as the Force 10?
Anyway, THINK SPRING!!!
Richard Feffer
CD30MKII
"Adamarie"
Have a Nice day Pedro
pmalomar@worldonline.es
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Lyn Heiges
Re: Force 10 Cabin Heater vs. clay pots?
Richard,
Yeah, I live in "sunny Florida" and have a Force 10 Cozy Cabin Heater on board.
I burn diesel fuel and the pressurized tank is mounted next to the engine fuel tank on the port side of my CD28. The piping goes over the engine under the bunk on the starboard side and comes up through the seatee base to the heater mounted on the bulkhead on the starboard side. I use it a lot this time of year. The only real complaint is the diesel fuel smell. I use the same fuel as what I burn in the engine which is automotive diesel. The marine diesel is colored and the automotive is clear and works really well. I could use a fan to circulate the heat, but with a couple of DHR oil lamps burning liquid parafin from West Marine it gets nice and toasty very easily. If you read the literature from Force 10, if you have a gravity feed, you can get away without the pressure tank, but I prefer to have the separate tank as it does burn more fuel per hour than the Yanmar 2GM20F "iron mizzen". I have a bicycle pump to pump up the pressure, but it really holds the pressure fine. It is a good idea to release the pressure when you are not going to be using the stove or going sailing.
I am extremely happy with the unit and the Force 10 support is outstanding for getting parts or answering questions.
Good Luck!
Lyn Heiges
CD28 MOON CHILD
LynHeiges@cs.com
Yeah, I live in "sunny Florida" and have a Force 10 Cozy Cabin Heater on board.
I burn diesel fuel and the pressurized tank is mounted next to the engine fuel tank on the port side of my CD28. The piping goes over the engine under the bunk on the starboard side and comes up through the seatee base to the heater mounted on the bulkhead on the starboard side. I use it a lot this time of year. The only real complaint is the diesel fuel smell. I use the same fuel as what I burn in the engine which is automotive diesel. The marine diesel is colored and the automotive is clear and works really well. I could use a fan to circulate the heat, but with a couple of DHR oil lamps burning liquid parafin from West Marine it gets nice and toasty very easily. If you read the literature from Force 10, if you have a gravity feed, you can get away without the pressure tank, but I prefer to have the separate tank as it does burn more fuel per hour than the Yanmar 2GM20F "iron mizzen". I have a bicycle pump to pump up the pressure, but it really holds the pressure fine. It is a good idea to release the pressure when you are not going to be using the stove or going sailing.
I am extremely happy with the unit and the Force 10 support is outstanding for getting parts or answering questions.
Good Luck!
Lyn Heiges
CD28 MOON CHILD
Richard Feffer wrote: Anyone care to comment on a comparison between installing a Force 10 Cabin Heater versus using inverted clay pots on top of the burners on the propane stove? Certainly the Force 10 makes a nice appearence and does a fine job. However, I believe we're looking at $400+ if you include the extra tank (kerosene model.) There is some labor involved as well as cutting a hole in the boat! Yikes!!! Leaks!!! Granted, the pots are not an ideal solution, but under certain conditions, as in a nice quiet anchorage, they might provide adequate warmth. Do they radiate as much heat as the Force 10?
Anyway, THINK SPRING!!!
Richard Feffer
CD30MKII
"Adamarie"
LynHeiges@cs.com
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Andy Denmark
Re: Force 10 Cabin Heater vs. clay pots?
Hi Richard,
I just finished a trek down the ICW from Oriental, NC ot Stuart, FL, leaving on Jan. 3 -- we experienced temps under 20 deg at night and rarely much over freezing in the daytime. A butane heater saved the day for us until we got below Fernandina Beach. It is called a "Mr. Heater - Buddy" and runs on the same cylinders used by many stern-mounted barbecue grilles. I found the cylinders at K-Mart for $1.89 and they run 6 hrs on the "low" setting (which is plenty for the small volume of a sailboat). Since these heaters use up oxygen we never ran it after sack time and further protected ourselves with a First Alert carbon monoixide detector. For the record, I found the same cylinders priced as high as $4.89 at other stores.
Years ago I used the clay pot method and found it to work pretty well but used a lot of precious stove fuel and the pots were fragile and easy to break. I quit using the pots and graduated to a construction brick that had six holes in it -- easy to store, small and definitely not fragile with nearly the same heating qualities. I used that same brick for fifteen years where pots rarely lasted more than a trip or two.
There will probably be some squawking over the use of gas below decks but with prudence and common sense this can be done safely.BTW, Mr. Heater has a low-oxygen cutoff that was extremely sensitive.
Temp here is 80+ with good sailing winds nearly every day. Today, Oriental is having an ice storm and 30 d temps. It was a great decision to come south even if the first few weeks in sub-freezing temps were pretty awful. I don't belive we could have made it without Mr. Heater!!
Andy Denmark
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
TDY from Oriental, NC to Stuart, FL
trekker@coastalnet.com
I just finished a trek down the ICW from Oriental, NC ot Stuart, FL, leaving on Jan. 3 -- we experienced temps under 20 deg at night and rarely much over freezing in the daytime. A butane heater saved the day for us until we got below Fernandina Beach. It is called a "Mr. Heater - Buddy" and runs on the same cylinders used by many stern-mounted barbecue grilles. I found the cylinders at K-Mart for $1.89 and they run 6 hrs on the "low" setting (which is plenty for the small volume of a sailboat). Since these heaters use up oxygen we never ran it after sack time and further protected ourselves with a First Alert carbon monoixide detector. For the record, I found the same cylinders priced as high as $4.89 at other stores.
Years ago I used the clay pot method and found it to work pretty well but used a lot of precious stove fuel and the pots were fragile and easy to break. I quit using the pots and graduated to a construction brick that had six holes in it -- easy to store, small and definitely not fragile with nearly the same heating qualities. I used that same brick for fifteen years where pots rarely lasted more than a trip or two.
There will probably be some squawking over the use of gas below decks but with prudence and common sense this can be done safely.BTW, Mr. Heater has a low-oxygen cutoff that was extremely sensitive.
Temp here is 80+ with good sailing winds nearly every day. Today, Oriental is having an ice storm and 30 d temps. It was a great decision to come south even if the first few weeks in sub-freezing temps were pretty awful. I don't belive we could have made it without Mr. Heater!!
Andy Denmark
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
TDY from Oriental, NC to Stuart, FL
trekker@coastalnet.com