Robinhood / CD 36 from Scratch

[Capt Hook]

My guess would be about twice that.

I bought my CD-31 last summer and had a survey done.

The surveyor listed the cost to replace as $378K.

I don't know anything about the methodology he used but looking at some recent boat reviews in Sail or Cruising World I would think his estimate is not unrealistic.

[John Stone]

I would guess a little over $450K. Which, demonstrates it may not be a very good value. You can pick up a new aluminum Boreal 44 for about $650K (or less) with the French franc down. That's an incredible boat.

Also, I looked at your chart and I can tell you that you are way low on your estimates. Your labor, if you are counting it, will probably run a min of $200k. That's only $50 per hour for 4000 hours which is two years of work for one man. Unless you are very experienced I suspect it will take more like 6000-8000 hours. I estimate I have about 6,000-7,000 hours into the Far Reach spread over 6 years.

Don't forget to add in fasteners (to include bronze fasters which cost 3-5 time that of SS), all kinds of hardware, bedding compound, solvents, paint, thinners, abrasives, tools, respirators, saw blades, line, shackles, ground tackle, traveler, windlass, batteries, solar panel, distribution panel, dinghy, etc etc etc.

The only way to save is to not count the labor and do it yourself.

[Capt Hook]

I just emailed Robinhood and asked the price of their most recent Robinhood 36 if they care to respond.

If they respond I'll post here.

Or perhaps David Perry might provide some insight.

[tjr818]

...
Don't forget to add in fasteners (to include bronze fasters which cost 3-5 time that of SS), all kinds of hardware, bedding compound, solvents, paint, thinners, abrasives, tools, respirators, saw blades, line, shackles, ground tackle, traveler, windlass, batteries, solar panel, distribution panel, dinghy, etc etc etc.
The only way to save is to not count the labor and do it yourself.

Doing it yourself might not save that much; Guinness is now going for $28.50 a case!

[Jim Walsh]

There's a Robinhood 36 from 2001 offered at $179,000.00 on Robinhoods site.

[Neil Gordon]

There's a Robinhood 36 from 2001 offered at $179,000.00 on Robinhoods site.

Jim, that one's 15 years old ... something like 10% already used up.

[John Stone]

There is a very interesting thread over on Afordable Adventure Cruising about this very topic. It's been running for about three years. John Harries makes a very good argument that if you can buy a new 50' Benteau for $225k with a lot of expensive and unnecessary gizmos like two steering wheels, a freezer, and in mast furling, etc., someone should be able to build a stripped down serious 40' blue water cruising boat for under $200k that is ready to go without any additional equipment. The boat has been basically designed and now is about 42' long, fin keel, balanced rudder, integrated hard dodger, diesel engine, steered with a tiller. They are shopping for a builder. Last I read about 150 people have said they are very interested in possibly purchasing the boat. You'll have to read through about a dozen posts to really understand this project but I am very skeptical. It's a very noble undertaking and there is some truth to the argument but I just don't think it can be done--at least not be done in a way that produces the boat as it has been envisioned. You are not going to get skilled people to build a boat for $10 an hour. Benteau has a huge production line and a lot of purchasing power. If Beneteau woke up one morning and said they wanted to build the adventure 40 than maybe I could see it. But a private builder? I don't think so. I hope I'm wrong. I think it would be fabulous to have a boat designed with the the experience that Harries has in high latitude sailing . . . and that could be bought for $200k. Course most people would then load the thing down with $150k worth of junk--but that's another story.

If you are interested, take a look at the thread.

https://www.morganscloud.com/series/boa ... venture-40/

[fmueller]

Double your estimate I'm afraid ... and probably more, because you are asking a shop that is not in any kind of current production run to essentially produce a one-off ... comparisons to Beneteau or similar discount the scale and volume efficiency they have.

(edit: the new owners should be able to answer this directly though)

My son Toby runs (part owner) a composites specialty boat building business in Bristol, Carbon Ocean Yachts (http://www.carbonoceanyachts.com/) and my understanding is that their basic labor rate is about $65 per hour.

Four years ago they built two re-engineered daggerboards (carbon fiber) for a Gunboat 65 - just that was an $80,000 project.

That project and the company were operating at Front Street Shipyard in Belfast ME at that time. My little 27' CD Jerezana showed up on poppets about 100' from the shed he was working in at along the Belfast waterfront, and I got a phone call ... "Dad, I found your boat!" .... I was looking at the time ...

But a spanking new CD36 would be a wonderful thing if cost were no object ...

Fred

[Capt Hook]

I heard back from David Perry.

He said they have not built a Robinhood 36 in 10 years and that in 2006 the base price was $295K.

[fmueller]

right - so really, 2016, you have to have a sack with nearly 1/2 mil 'taters in it by the time supper is cooked.

[John Stone]

New boats are not a good value. Even when adjusted for the cost of inflation a boat costs significantly less in 1968 than the same boat would cost today. Buy a used boat, clean it up, and go sailing. It's a much better deal especially if you can live with out all the stuff that always breaks--refrigeration, water maker, full instrumentation, furling gear, complex wiring, expensive alternators and battery systems. Or, rebuild a boat like I did, still skip adding all the that stuff, and don't count your own labor. The Far Reach is, in my opinion, a much better stronger boat than a new Robin Hood. It has a better layout for offshore sailing--and twice the storage room. It's also faster. I have about $100k in it--total. Not including labor. Labor would easily add another $300k--6000 hours X $50 per hour. Knowing what I know now (the skills I developed) I might be able to do it in 4000 hours. . . maybe.

I have met dozens of sailors here in the eastern Caribbean. They all have the same problems and frustrations--engine, refrigeration, electronics problems.

One of the best quotes I have heard as it applies to sailing is attributed to L Francis Herreshoff. "Simplicity is the surest guarantee of happiness afloat."

Of course, one man's happiness is another man's hardship.

[tjr818]

This article verifies the decline in sailboat building:

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/2016/03/s ... t-in-2015/

[John Stone]

John
Thanks. It was/is a labor of love . . . or a labor of madness . . . or maybe both. Shannons are nice boats. Very much like a CD. It's good to hear they are finding a way to keep their business open and their craftsmen employed.

It's also very interesting to see the revival in wood boat building, both new and restoration work. It seems the art of boatbuilding and wood work (along with composite building too) are alive and well.

What could be an interesting option is to buy a bare hull with the deck too but not installed and spend four years building it. Still going to cost a big chunk of change, but if you can spread the expense out over a number of years it could work. Ben Zartman build his Cape George 31 by way of a bare hull and I think he did it in three years. He built his own fiberglass deck and house top too. I have sailed on his boat and I thought it was terrific. Super simple.

There are ways to do it and make it reasonable if you are prepared to do the work, can afford the time, and have the tenacity of a junk yard dog.

At the risk of sounding like I am pontificating, I am shocked almost everyday at the cost of boats--purchasing them, equipping them and maintaining them. I see ordinary folks literally pulling their hair out over the cost of having yards fix stuff. Somehow we have to resist the urge to get all this stuff. The simple joy of sailing has to be part of the reward--at least for most of us. Somehow, we need to break away from the influence of the vendors and marine industry and get back to sailing simple boats.

Well, I got to get back to soldering a leak in the reservoir of my kerosene anchor light.

Happy Sailing to all.

[Dalton]

Our's was Robinhood's 1996 demo/boat show boat built on spec.
A new one in 1997 was 200k list with no upgrades or options.

A recent survey put ours at around 150k for insurance purposes.
20th season coming up!!

Here's a link to a few post Sandy pics.
She was pretty scratched up and I had her trucked to Robinhood for repairs, new paint and whole lot of new stuff.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mm2kz59gxiv0 ... cpnTa?dl=0