Patrick O'Brian and Code Signal flags.....

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

I posted a response on about 1/12 in which I stated in the subject line "A glass of wine with you Sir". Many of you recognized that as coming from the Patrick O'Brian, Aubery/Maturin series of novels.

A question I have often had is "What were the code signal flags that the British used?" When they flew the signal "All Captains repair aboard Flag", what were the signal flags that were hoisted? I do know that to identify other ships of the fleet they would fly number flags, ie. "341" might mean "Surprise". But, when they wanted to say "Engage the enemy more closely" or "Enemy in sight" what were the flags that were flown at the signal halyard?

Does anyone know of a source of a book of signals? I'm going to try Mystic Seaport when I get down that way again, but I haven't found anything on their web site. If you can answer these questions, "A glass of wine with you , Sir!" I remain you most humble Servant...

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Marino]

Try going to the POB website: http://www.patrickobrian.com/

They have an email list which you can subscribe to. I was a member a couple years ago; the participants are really into POB and naval history.

I think they used a set of signal flags and pennants similar to those of today. They had a key that would always change. I remember that in one of the books, when one of Jack's ships was captured by the french, it was the first priority to sink the log book, the captain's orders and the code book.

Good Luck,
Marino Curati
Ty 74 Snug
Cleveland

[Olli Wendelin]

Dave,

Pub 102, International Code of Signals, gives standard flag signals. It, and many more pubs on signals are available at the Armchair Sailor web site (or in Newport).

Military signals do change, so that your enemy won't know them. They are generally in classified pubs.

British signals used in previous centuries should be available. You might try Mariners Museum in Newport News, VA. Or one of the Naval Museums.

Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC




wendelin@spawar.navy.mil

[Brian Hickson]

Dave,

The British used a Naval flag code which was perfected by Sir Home Popham, a Royal Navy captain, just several years before the battle of Trafalgar. Flags were assigned either numbers or letters, and by raising the flags in groups of two or three, specific orders could be given to the fleet, rather than the crude earlier simplistic messages . This gave the British navy a huge advantage in battle.

It was because of this signalling system that enabled Nelson to direct his ships wherever he wanted them and at whichever moment he chose, thus defeating the combined French/Spanish fleet, by a series of synchronized maneuvers.

This Code was published in Popham's book "Telegraphic Signals or Marine Vocabulary"

Brian

[Ken Coit]

Dave,

Here are a few examples and some history on codes:

http://www.dweebsofdeath.com/scenario/o ... attle.html

http://www.ukans.edu/~kansite/ww_one/naval/escl.htm

http://now.cs.berkeley.edu/~randy/Cours ... nning.html

I searched for the Royal Navy Code Book but didn't come up with any sources.

Let us know if you find something with all 3000 signals.

Ken Coit
S/V Parfait
Raleigh, NC



parfait@nc.rr.com

[Catherine Monaghan]

As mentioned in a previous post, the signal flags and their meanings have changed throughout the years.

But just in case you're interested, you'll find the current international code signal flags, which have been in use since 1855, and their meanings at:
<a href="http://www.usps.org/f_stuff/sigmean.htm ... an.html</a>
<a href="http://www4.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Pi ... ags.htm</a> and
<a href="http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow ... ags.htm</a>
and a host of other websites.

And the meanings of multiple flags can be found at:
<a href="http://www.usps.org/f_stuff/sigmeanm.ht ... nm.html</a>.

For information on the "Blue Peter" the "P" flag (that's the one that tells sailors to return to their ship because she's about to set out to sea), see
<a href="http://flags-by-swi.com/fotw/flags/flag ... uepeter</a>.

Info on how the flags are displayed is at:
<a href="http://www.eskimo.com/~ksh/flags/index. ... ex.html</a>
<a href="http://www.midcoast.com/~martucci/neva/ ... cf.html</a>

There's some historical code flag info at:
<a href="http://www.pem.org/archives/guides/sign ... als.htm</a>

There's a flag and semaphore translator (translates text to flags or semaphore) at:
<a href="http://www.envmed.rochester.edu/wwwrlp/ ... ags.htm</a>.

Here's the US Navy's code flags (note that they use square flags for the numbers rather than the triangular pennants):
<a href="http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/com ... gs.html</a>

If you'd like to take a small vacation and travel to Texas, visit the Cushing Memorial Library at Texas A&M University. They've got a rare book by George S. Nares titled "Seamanship" in their collection which contains a plate showing the signal flags used by British Men or War and those used by Merchant Vessels. They won't let you remove it from the library, so you have to give them a visit. But since it was written in 1874, it probably shows the same flags in use today. For a complete list of the plates contained in this book see:
<a href="http://library.tamu.edu/cushing/collect ... 234.htm</a>

For what it's worth, I really like the Hornblower series. Though it's not part of a series, doesn't have anything to do with any ships of the line or the days of wooden tall ships, I'm currently reading "My Old Man and Sea" by David and Daniel Hays -- true story as opposed to a historical novel -- and I highly recommend it. They circumnavigate South America, rounding Cape Horn, in a 25-foot sailboat.


catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

I posted a response on about 1/12 in which I stated in the subject line "A glass of wine with you Sir". Many of you recognized that as coming from the Patrick O'Brian, Aubery/Maturin series of novels.

A question I have often had is "What were the code signal flags that the British used?" When they flew the signal "All Captains repair aboard Flag", what were the signal flags that were hoisted? I do know that to identify other ships of the fleet they would fly number flags, ie. "341" might mean "Surprise". But, when they wanted to say "Engage the enemy more closely" or "Enemy in sight" what were the flags that were flown at the signal halyard?

Does anyone know of a source of a book of signals? I'm going to try Mystic Seaport when I get down that way again, but I haven't found anything on their web site. If you can answer these questions, "A glass of wine with you , Sir!" I remain you most humble Servant...

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

catherine_monaghan@merck.com

[Catherine Monaghan]

"...The fighting Instructions issued in 1691, with slight modifications in 1703, and two additional ones about 1740, lasted until the last quarter of the 18th century. In 1790 Admiral Lord Howe introduced a signalling code employing ten numeral flags and by 1803 combinations of the ten flags were used by Sir Home Popham to represent all the numerals and the letters of the alphabet. 3000 words and phrases were available in the code book used at Trafalgar and by 1812 this had been increased to 30,000 words and 6000 phrases...."

Here are the flags and how they were used:
<a href="http://www.cronab.demon.co.uk/fight.htm">The Fighting Instructions</a>


Cathy

As mentioned in a previous post, the signal flags and their meanings have changed throughout the years.

But just in case you're interested, you'll find the current international code signal flags, which have been in use since 1855, and their meanings at:
<a href="http://www.usps.org/f_stuff/sigmean.htm ... an.html</a>
<a href="http://www4.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Pi ... ags.htm</a> and
<a href="http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow ... ags.htm</a>
and a host of other websites.

And the meanings of multiple flags can be found at:
<a href="http://www.usps.org/f_stuff/sigmeanm.ht ... nm.html</a>.

For information on the "Blue Peter" the "P" flag (that's the one that tells sailors to return to their ship because she's about to set out to sea), see
<a href="http://flags-by-swi.com/fotw/flags/flag ... uepeter</a>.

Info on how the flags are displayed is at:
<a href="http://www.eskimo.com/~ksh/flags/index. ... ex.html</a>
<a href="http://www.midcoast.com/~martucci/neva/ ... cf.html</a>

There's some historical code flag info at:
<a href="http://www.pem.org/archives/guides/sign ... als.htm</a>

There's a flag and semaphore translator (translates text to flags or semaphore) at:
<a href="http://www.envmed.rochester.edu/wwwrlp/ ... ags.htm</a>.

Here's the US Navy's code flags (note that they use square flags for the numbers rather than the triangular pennants):
<a href="http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/com ... gs.html</a>

If you'd like to take a small vacation and travel to Texas, visit the Cushing Memorial Library at Texas A&M University. They've got a rare book by George S. Nares titled "Seamanship" in their collection which contains a plate showing the signal flags used by British Men or War and those used by Merchant Vessels. They won't let you remove it from the library, so you have to give them a visit. But since it was written in 1874, it probably shows the same flags in use today. For a complete list of the plates contained in this book see:
<a href="http://library.tamu.edu/cushing/collect ... 234.htm</a>

For what it's worth, I really like the Hornblower series. Though it's not part of a series, doesn't have anything to do with any ships of the line or the days of wooden tall ships, I'm currently reading "My Old Man and Sea" by David and Daniel Hays -- true story as opposed to a historical novel -- and I highly recommend it. They circumnavigate South America, rounding Cape Horn, in a 25-foot sailboat.


catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

I posted a response on about 1/12 in which I stated in the subject line "A glass of wine with you Sir". Many of you recognized that as coming from the Patrick O'Brian, Aubery/Maturin series of novels.

A question I have often had is "What were the code signal flags that the British used?" When they flew the signal "All Captains repair aboard Flag", what were the signal flags that were hoisted? I do know that to identify other ships of the fleet they would fly number flags, ie. "341" might mean "Surprise". But, when they wanted to say "Engage the enemy more closely" or "Enemy in sight" what were the flags that were flown at the signal halyard?

Does anyone know of a source of a book of signals? I'm going to try Mystic Seaport when I get down that way again, but I haven't found anything on their web site. If you can answer these questions, "A glass of wine with you , Sir!" I remain you most humble Servant...

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

catherine_monaghan@merck.com

[Catherine Monaghan]

<a href="http://www.hmsrichmond.org/instructions.htm">Sailing and Fighting Instructions for His Majesty's Fleet - 1775</a>

"...The fighting Instructions issued in 1691, with slight modifications in 1703, and two additional ones about 1740, lasted until the last quarter of the 18th century. In 1790 Admiral Lord Howe introduced a signalling code employing ten numeral flags and by 1803 combinations of the ten flags were used by Sir Home Popham to represent all the numerals and the letters of the alphabet. 3000 words and phrases were available in the code book used at Trafalgar and by 1812 this had been increased to 30,000 words and 6000 phrases...."

Here are the flags and how they were used:
<a href="http://www.cronab.demon.co.uk/fight.htm">The Fighting Instructions</a>


Cathy

As mentioned in a previous post, the signal flags and their meanings have changed throughout the years.

But just in case you're interested, you'll find the current international code signal flags, which have been in use since 1855, and their meanings at:
<a href="http://www.usps.org/f_stuff/sigmean.htm ... an.html</a>
<a href="http://www4.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Pi ... ags.htm</a> and
<a href="http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow ... ags.htm</a>
and a host of other websites.

And the meanings of multiple flags can be found at:
<a href="http://www.usps.org/f_stuff/sigmeanm.ht ... nm.html</a>.

For information on the "Blue Peter" the "P" flag (that's the one that tells sailors to return to their ship because she's about to set out to sea), see
<a href="http://flags-by-swi.com/fotw/flags/flag ... uepeter</a>.

Info on how the flags are displayed is at:
<a href="http://www.eskimo.com/~ksh/flags/index. ... ex.html</a>
<a href="http://www.midcoast.com/~martucci/neva/ ... cf.html</a>

There's some historical code flag info at:
<a href="http://www.pem.org/archives/guides/sign ... als.htm</a>

There's a flag and semaphore translator (translates text to flags or semaphore) at:
<a href="http://www.envmed.rochester.edu/wwwrlp/ ... ags.htm</a>.

Here's the US Navy's code flags (note that they use square flags for the numbers rather than the triangular pennants):
<a href="http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/com ... gs.html</a>

If you'd like to take a small vacation and travel to Texas, visit the Cushing Memorial Library at Texas A&M University. They've got a rare book by George S. Nares titled "Seamanship" in their collection which contains a plate showing the signal flags used by British Men or War and those used by Merchant Vessels. They won't let you remove it from the library, so you have to give them a visit. But since it was written in 1874, it probably shows the same flags in use today. For a complete list of the plates contained in this book see:
<a href="http://library.tamu.edu/cushing/collect ... 234.htm</a>

For what it's worth, I really like the Hornblower series. Though it's not part of a series, doesn't have anything to do with any ships of the line or the days of wooden tall ships, I'm currently reading "My Old Man and Sea" by David and Daniel Hays -- true story as opposed to a historical novel -- and I highly recommend it. They circumnavigate South America, rounding Cape Horn, in a 25-foot sailboat.


catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

I posted a response on about 1/12 in which I stated in the subject line "A glass of wine with you Sir". Many of you recognized that as coming from the Patrick O'Brian, Aubery/Maturin series of novels.

A question I have often had is "What were the code signal flags that the British used?" When they flew the signal "All Captains repair aboard Flag", what were the signal flags that were hoisted? I do know that to identify other ships of the fleet they would fly number flags, ie. "341" might mean "Surprise". But, when they wanted to say "Engage the enemy more closely" or "Enemy in sight" what were the flags that were flown at the signal halyard?

Does anyone know of a source of a book of signals? I'm going to try Mystic Seaport when I get down that way again, but I haven't found anything on their web site. If you can answer these questions, "A glass of wine with you , Sir!" I remain you most humble Servant...

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

catherine_monaghan@merck.com

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Catherine,

Thank you so much for your considerable research. The code book used at Trafalgar with it's 3000 words and phrases is really what I'm looking for. One reason, I thought it would be appropriate to hoist "All Captains repair aboard Flag" on the main mast of the Lonesome Dove at the next NE Fleet meeting! I wonder if it was alphabetical in listing. Look at Nelson's signal to the fleet on 21 October 1805 at Trafalgar, "England" is 253, "Expects" is 269....seems it is probably alphabetical! With 3000 words, it must have been some book for the signal midshipman to handle, "one hand for the book and one hand for the telescope"! Upps, something wrong with that!

By the way, the Hays's were from the Mystic, Connecticut area. Maybe from Mystic or Groton, but at any rate they were locals. The son sailed the ship most of the time, I understand, and the father joined for the actual rounding of the Horn. From local gossip, it seems that the voyage was at times "contentious". I would be interested in hearing your comments on the book! Hey, maybe here is something new for the CD web site - book reviews. Only kidding.

Looking forward to "A glass of wine with you Sir" at the meeting at Chairman McDonald's. For the "Pot Luck" I am trying to convince the Cook that we should bring Hard Tack and Green Pea with Pork(read that "Ham" soup! I've just recently gotten a bunch of receipes for hard tack, in some cases it sounds like the weevils added to the taste of the sea biscuits! Thank you again for the research, I remain your most humble and obedient servant....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Ken, Catherine did a lot of research on the problem and has a lot of URLs listed. Unfortunately, the Code book wasn't in there, but I am still looking. I will also check all the ones you listed. Thanks again....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

[Ken Coit]

Dave,

Yes, she humiliated me, and quite unintentionally I am sure. Maybe we can find the specific signal you are wanting easier than the whole book. I'll do a search to see what comes up.

Ken

Ken, Catherine did a lot of research on the problem and has a lot of URLs listed. Unfortunately, the Code book wasn't in there, but I am still looking. I will also check all the ones you listed. Thanks again....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

parfait@nc.rr.com

[Neil Gordon]

>>Here's the US Navy's code flags (note that they use square flags for the numbers rather than the triangular pennants):<<

The Navy uses both. I suspect they added a set of number flags because they are easier to read over longer distances than the pennants. But some signals specify flags while others specify pennants.

There are also a slew of special flags and pennants that the Navy uses in addition to letters and numbers. There are pennants for port and stbd, for example, that are unique to the Navy (that would mean all NATO ships, I suppose).

The code book is (was, it's been 30 years) fairly extensive in being able to signal operational sorts of things. But for plain text, there's no "dictionary" that translates words to signals. That's better left to flashing light or to semaphore (if you want to be traditional and stay off the radio). I carry my semaphore flags on board... it's not common but on occasion I meet up with a Navy ship. Always fun to exchange greatings, although getting their attention from a small boat is sometimes difficult.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Catherine Monaghan]

Dave, Ken,

Neither of you have been humiliated (at least I didn't mean to), just partially informed.

The Fighting Instructions describe the flags (visual signals) and the cannon blasts (audible signals) used by the Royal Navy to communicate between ships while in port, at anchor and during battle. Brief mention is made of the codes at <a href="http://www.cronab.demon.co.uk/fight.htm ... ght.htm</a>, but there's no actual code book.

"...Nelson's Signal on 21 October 1805 required twelve hoists

England Expects That Every Man Will Do His D U T Y

The word `duty` did not appear in the code book and had to be spelled out

253, 269, 863, 261, 471, 958, 220, 370, 4, 21, 19, 24,..."

By the way, I had a good time searching for the flag signals/codes info. Too bad I couldn't find the code book. I think that many of them went overboard during conflicts to avoid falling into enemy hands. The few that may remain are probably in some rare books collection in a library or museum somewhere, under lock and key, only to be viewed through glass.

I suppose if you're really interested in getting your hands on that code book, it would make a great vacation to journey to England (sail there if you can) and visit the British Library, British Musuem, etc. until you find it.

Anyway, I think this is the signal that Dave was looking for to get the captains to "repair aboard". <a href="http://pc-78-120.udac.se:8001/WWW/Nauti ... -6.html</a>

"As soon as the Admiral shall put abroad an Union Flag in the Mizen-shrowds, and fire a Gun, all the Captains in the Fleet are to come aboard the Admiral's Ship; if the same Signal, and a Weft with the Ensign, a Lieutenant of each Ship is to come on Board."

Cathy

Dave,

Yes, she humiliated me, and quite unintentionally I am sure. Maybe we can find the specific signal you are wanting easier than the whole book. I'll do a search to see what comes up.

Ken

Ken, Catherine did a lot of research on the problem and has a lot of URLs listed. Unfortunately, the Code book wasn't in there, but I am still looking. I will also check all the ones you listed. Thanks again....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

catherine_monaghan@merck.com

[Ken Coit]

Cathy,

You are amazing! I always knew I was partially, if not minimally, informed, but the goal was to beat you to that one more bit of knowledge. Therein lies the humiliation. Congratulations.

Ken

Dave, Ken,

Neither of you have been humiliated (at least I didn't mean to), just partially informed.

The Fighting Instructions describe the flags (visual signals) and the cannon blasts (audible signals) used by the Royal Navy to communicate between ships while in port, at anchor and during battle. Brief mention is made of the codes at <a href="http://www.cronab.demon.co.uk/fight.htm ... ght.htm</a>, but there's no actual code book.

"...Nelson's Signal on 21 October 1805 required twelve hoists

England Expects That Every Man Will Do His D U T Y

The word `duty` did not appear in the code book and had to be spelled out

253, 269, 863, 261, 471, 958, 220, 370, 4, 21, 19, 24,..."

By the way, I had a good time searching for the flag signals/codes info. Too bad I couldn't find the code book. I think that many of them went overboard during conflicts to avoid falling into enemy hands. The few that may remain are probably in some rare books collection in a library or museum somewhere, under lock and key, only to be viewed through glass.

I suppose if you're really interested in getting your hands on that code book, it would make a great vacation to journey to England (sail there if you can) and visit the British Library, British Musuem, etc. until you find it.

Anyway, I think this is the signal that Dave was looking for to get the captains to "repair aboard". <a href="http://pc-78-120.udac.se:8001/WWW/Nauti ... -6.html</a>

"As soon as the Admiral shall put abroad an Union Flag in the Mizen-shrowds, and fire a Gun, all the Captains in the Fleet are to come aboard the Admiral's Ship; if the same Signal, and a Weft with the Ensign, a Lieutenant of each Ship is to come on Board."

Cathy

Dave,

Yes, she humiliated me, and quite unintentionally I am sure. Maybe we can find the specific signal you are wanting easier than the whole book. I'll do a search to see what comes up.

Ken

Ken, Catherine did a lot of research on the problem and has a lot of URLs listed. Unfortunately, the Code book wasn't in there, but I am still looking. I will also check all the ones you listed. Thanks again....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei

parfait@nc.rr.com