Mayday, Mayday, Mayday! 1GM in Distress!

[Joe Myerson]

Hi Joe CD:

Thanks for the suggestion. The mechanic is supposedly going to check the oil for metal fragments.

I should hear about the diagnosis tomorrow. Until then, optimism is the best policy.

--Joe

[Joe CD MS 300]

Joe,

The oil analysis I was suggesting was the type that is done in a lab. This is the lab I use:

http://blackstone-labs.com/

It runs about $22 for an analysis. They send out the sample kits for free and they keep a history of the reports over time which helps in traclkng and monitoring any problems. They probable\y look at a 20-30 different metals and contaminants, including water and anti-freeze getting into the oil.

Joe

[Joe Myerson]

Just as I was about to call the yard mechanic, he called me--and the news isn't wonderful.

First the good news: There were no traces of metal fragments in the oil. So, they replaced the oil delivery tubes, put the engine back together and tried to run it.

Bad news: No compression.

So they pulled the head and found that a copper washer was interfering with one of the valves (?).

They also discovered a lot of scale in the cooling system and heavy rust in the exhaust elbow--which I had replaced in 2003. (Darrell Nicholson, a former colleague now at Practical Sailor, once advised that I descale the exhaust system every season, but I never did.)

The worst-case scenario: I might need a new head, which will mean more lost sea-time, not to mention more dollars spent.

If that's the case, I wonder if I'll make it to Jamestown.

--Joe

[rtbates]

Hi Joe:

A new head is $500 with valves and can be removed/installed very easily. I did my 1GM two years ago. Yanmar will tell you who the dealer is for your area. I bought my parts from LABORDE PRODUCTS, Inc in Covington, La (I'm in Texas). When I bought the new head I also bought all new external oil lines. They aren't intalled YET, but after reading your story I'm extra motivated to get moving.

Best of luck

[chase]

Joe,

Sorry to hear about your engine problem, hope they get you up and running soon.

Chase

[Joe Myerson]

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the advice. My yard mechanic quoted the same price for a new head, so I guess the sometimes annoying Mac Boring sells them for the same price.

As for replacing your oil tubes, please see my response to Bob Dugan in this thread: It seems like these tubes do rust out after a while (well, 29 years isn't too bad in my case).

Thanks,

--Joe

[Oswego John]

Joe,

I've been following this thread with keen interest. It's a real bummer experience.

I'm trying to catch up with all that's going on to date, so let me ask a few questions. I hope that you don't think that I'm butting in. I am very interested as well as curious.

Is your head aluminum or cast iron?

Is the head warped any? If so, can it be milled flat?

Has the head been x-rayed?

Is the head cracked anywhere? Can it be heliarc welded?

You mention that a copper washer prevents compression. Is the valve seat damaged? If so, can the seat be removed and replaced as well as a new valve?

Since the head is off, has anyone mentioned boiling out the head to remove scale?

Just what is the reason(s) that you are told that you must get a new head?

Joe, if you need a new head, then by all means get a new head. Maybe it's the inherent cheap-skate in me that likes to repair rather than take the quick, easy, $$$ way out of a problem.

I don't know. I'm sure that you will do what's necessary in a proper fashion.

So keep us abreast of what's coming down and, by all means, hurry and recapture what's left of the sailing season.

Best of luck,
O J

[Joe Myerson]

Hi OJ:

The situation is in flux--I'll know better tomorrow when I check back with the yard. (The boat is 85 miles away from my home, so I'm doing most of this by phone.)

One question in definitely can answer: Yes, they are going to boil the scale out of the head while it's off. They're also running a de-scaling chemical through the cooling system, since it's a raw-water cooled engine in salt water that has probably never been de-scaled.

Other answers to come later. I want to be on the water, now!

--Joe

[Joe Myerson]

The yard just called: they boiled out the scale in the head and everything is running fine. It must have been scale that got into the valve--or else that mysterious washer.

Anyway, the mechanic says he just wanted to let me know the worst case, in case it applied.

I'll be on the water tomorrow!

Thanks for following the soap opera.

--Joe

[Lou Ostendorff]

Hi Everyone;
Don't want to hijack this thread with more information, except to tell you my experience quickly with the same situation. I was coming in from a daysail with the motor running, and had just entered the Oriental Channel...a few more minutes and I'll be home! Suddenly, the engine started sounding funny, kind of 'throaty' and low pitched, but running with no problems. I slowed down and continued my channel negotiation until I got all the way into the slip. No problems or overheating bell. Cleaned up the boat and went to the condo, knowing I'd be back the next day to finish up whatever was left. Next day, I opened the engine compartment and the sump below the engine was full of oil! This should have suprised me, but alas, I knew my external oil tube under the flywheel was rusty, and I'd already bought a spare to replace it. Cost about $30 bucks. Replaced in a few hours, because I wanted to clean up and paint the new tube, and the engine panels behind it. Cause of problem was a leaking impeller housing. Solution was to open housing, clean it up with bronze wool, and replace speedseal "O" ring, which had flattened out. After this, I got spooked and replaced all the other oil tubes too, but they weren't really rusty like the first one. Moral? Inspect your engine frequently; stop any leaks ASAP; keep some spares aboard. And whenever possible, put some of Mr. Vigor's 'Black Box' points back in to your vessel, before any real emergency crops up. One more thing...raw water cooled engines, like my 1GM10 and the earlier 1GMs, get clogged up with salt and corrosion deposits over time. When it reaches a certain point, the water pump can't circulate water and one, or both of two things happen; your engine can overheat, and your water pump will leak at the weep hole. For this case you'll need to clean out your cooling passages with something like RydLyme, formerly known as Marsolve. Somewhere in the archives is an explanation about how to set up and circulate this solution through your engine. Do it; and Happy Sailing!

[Oswego John]

Joe,

Great news. Now I can stop knocking on wood that your engine would turn out okay.

I've been knocking so hard, my knuckles are a bloody mess.

But on a serious note, it sounds like you have a reputable yard doing your work. Sorry to say it, but there are some places out there that would take full advantage of a situation like this and take the unsuspecting boat owner over the high hurdles for all the $$$ they could extract.

My personal thought is how long a boat repair business has been in operation. The fly-by-nights come and go but the honest, steady professional shops have been around for several generations. Their reputation preceeds them.

The boating population certainly needs the good shops. They are entitled to earn a fair dollar for their efforts. As in medicine and many other professions, one of the greatest assets is to have an experienced shop manager who is adept in diagnosing unseen trouble. He is worth his weight in platinum, both to the shop and to the boat owner.

Good luck, Joe
O J

[Joe Myerson]

Lou:
How right you are!
When I first bought my boat, I took a basic diesel-engine class. I also installed a SpeedSeal and carry spare impellers. Other than that, I have neglected my trusty old 1GM. Lesson learned!

OJ:
The yard recently celebrated its 50 anniversary under the same family. They've been servicing my family's boats for almost as long. (That said, sometimes they do get sloppy.)

Mark, the mechanic, has been servicing my engine since I bought the boat in 2003. He has a very good reputation in this area, and I've always liked the guy. At $85/hour he should be good (not everybody is that good at that price).

So, tomorrow I'm back on the water. Damn the small-craft advisories -- full speed ahead!

--Joe

[trapper]

Joe,

So glad you engine turned out fine.

[Bruce Barber]

Since a lot of this thread has to do with internal corrosion, I'd point out that it's a good idea to fresh-water flush a raw-water-cooled engine when you can. I've been doing this on my 1GM whenever I return to my slip, sucking from a bucket of water to a tee just before the water pump. (If you're on a mooring, obviously it wouldn't be as easy.) So far (knocking on wood) my 1982 engine hasn't had any cooling issues.