Sydney harbor close call
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Sydney harbor close call
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Re: Sydney harbor close call
Thanks for the video Jim
I stopped at 16 seconds and can't figure out what going on the foredeck
I see a pole and a something white
Maybe it is a broken stay
Looks like the headsail is on a fuller wonder why the did not douse the Genoa when the wind piped up
I stopped at 16 seconds and can't figure out what going on the foredeck
I see a pole and a something white
Maybe it is a broken stay
Looks like the headsail is on a fuller wonder why the did not douse the Genoa when the wind piped up
- tjr818
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Re: Sydney harbor close call
Was that really a close call, or was it a minor hit? Right at the end of the video it looks as though they came to a sudden stop. Does anyone know what the final outcome was? I can understand that they were afraid to gybe, but good grief, it looks like they didn't do anything other than let the sheets fly.
People have to respect those ferries, they are moving fast, watching many different small boats, and reluctant to attempt threading through the crowds.
People have to respect those ferries, they are moving fast, watching many different small boats, and reluctant to attempt threading through the crowds.
Tim
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
- Steve Laume
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Re: Sydney harbor close call
It looked to me, like they sealed their fate long before this video started to roll.
I am thinking they might have lost the jib sheet as the start of this disaster. That would have been enough to cause the sail to flog to shreds. With this amount of wind and only the main, it would have been very hard to control the boat. It kind of looks like they then decided to release all the sheets and slow or stop the boat. Unfortunately, this tactic wasn't enough to keep them from T boning the ferry. I doubt they could have jibed by the time we got to see this situation. They had already lost most of their boat speed and they would have had to overcome a tremendous amount of weather helm to bring her around, with an ineffective rudder. Heading up might have been a better strategy but I don't think they would have been able to tack either, without the jib in that kind of wind.
If they had headed up sooner, they probably could have fore reached until the ferry passed or bought some time to start the engine.
If it can ever be said of a collision; they were lucky. I can definitely see where terror would have entered into all decision making, Steve.
I am thinking they might have lost the jib sheet as the start of this disaster. That would have been enough to cause the sail to flog to shreds. With this amount of wind and only the main, it would have been very hard to control the boat. It kind of looks like they then decided to release all the sheets and slow or stop the boat. Unfortunately, this tactic wasn't enough to keep them from T boning the ferry. I doubt they could have jibed by the time we got to see this situation. They had already lost most of their boat speed and they would have had to overcome a tremendous amount of weather helm to bring her around, with an ineffective rudder. Heading up might have been a better strategy but I don't think they would have been able to tack either, without the jib in that kind of wind.
If they had headed up sooner, they probably could have fore reached until the ferry passed or bought some time to start the engine.
If it can ever be said of a collision; they were lucky. I can definitely see where terror would have entered into all decision making, Steve.
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Re: Sydney harbor close call
I agree with Tim and Steve; it looks like the sailboat bow hit near the aft end of the ferry. The sailboat appears to come to a sudden stop and is then pushed to her port side and lifted up a little. To my eyes that is/was a bad "T-bone".
I have been sitting here calmly thinking what would I do if I found myself in this situation (with no Genoa and perhaps no main). I have no good idea(s) except don't get into the situation in the first place. It is a pretty big ferry and it seems like the sailors would have seen it a long ways off - even in bad weather. I suppose trying to come up into the wind (assuming I had a working mainsail that could be sheeted in close), assuming the wind is starboard, would possibly lessen the blow to a glancing blow instead of a "T-bone" hit. It might also allow for a 180 tack depending on time and distance.
If I found myself in that situation I am not sure I would (I really doubt I would ) have the skill, training, experience, etc., to work through the options and execute a plan. It really comes down to experience and training. In diving we teach "stop, breath, think, breath, act". Don't panic or you will die. For me this is all "second nature". In sailing, sadly, for me it is still "stop, breath, panic, repeat".
I have been sitting here calmly thinking what would I do if I found myself in this situation (with no Genoa and perhaps no main). I have no good idea(s) except don't get into the situation in the first place. It is a pretty big ferry and it seems like the sailors would have seen it a long ways off - even in bad weather. I suppose trying to come up into the wind (assuming I had a working mainsail that could be sheeted in close), assuming the wind is starboard, would possibly lessen the blow to a glancing blow instead of a "T-bone" hit. It might also allow for a 180 tack depending on time and distance.
If I found myself in that situation I am not sure I would (I really doubt I would ) have the skill, training, experience, etc., to work through the options and execute a plan. It really comes down to experience and training. In diving we teach "stop, breath, think, breath, act". Don't panic or you will die. For me this is all "second nature". In sailing, sadly, for me it is still "stop, breath, panic, repeat".
Fair winds,
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Re: Sydney harbor close call
After several viewings (each one with a lump in my throat), here is my amateurish guess on what may have happened -
There appears to be a spinnaker pole attached to the mast which leads me to believe that the boat had been running downwind (a broad reach with the wind from the starboard) in lighter air. Perhaps a sudden squall hit and the genoa broke free of the pole.
With the Genny detached, the boat's weather helm redirects the boat into a beam reach pointing directly at the ferry. At this point, the skipper decides that his best option is to slow the boat enough so that the ferry passes without a collision.
Those with much more experience than I should feel free to point out flaws in this theory.
I go back to what we teach the kids - Tiller towards danger. Heading up directly into the wind would perhaps have been a better option. It is a luxury to be able to experience these situations in a simulated manner so as to analyze what should or should not be done. Very helpful for dealing with an actual crisis.
There appears to be a spinnaker pole attached to the mast which leads me to believe that the boat had been running downwind (a broad reach with the wind from the starboard) in lighter air. Perhaps a sudden squall hit and the genoa broke free of the pole.
With the Genny detached, the boat's weather helm redirects the boat into a beam reach pointing directly at the ferry. At this point, the skipper decides that his best option is to slow the boat enough so that the ferry passes without a collision.
Those with much more experience than I should feel free to point out flaws in this theory.
I go back to what we teach the kids - Tiller towards danger. Heading up directly into the wind would perhaps have been a better option. It is a luxury to be able to experience these situations in a simulated manner so as to analyze what should or should not be done. Very helpful for dealing with an actual crisis.
CDSOA Member 1389
Re: Sydney harbor close call
I'll be concise in my opinion. The sailboat had way on, therefore he should have tacked. The headsail was out of control, the main was let out enough to be rubbing the spreaders but the boat was still moving fast enough (you can clearly see his wake) to be maneuverable so the helmsman should have tacked.
Last edited by Jim Walsh on Mar 4th, '15, 14:22, edited 1 time in total.
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
- tjr818
- Posts: 1851
- Joined: Oct 13th, '07, 13:42
- Location: Previously owned 1980 CD 27 Slainte, Hull #185. NO.1257949
Re: Sydney harbor close call
"...tiller towards danger...." Well he had that right. That tiller was pointing right at the ferry.
I think he just completely drained his Black Box.
I think he just completely drained his Black Box.
Tim
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
- Steve Laume
- Posts: 4127
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Re: Sydney harbor close call
I watched again and he still had jib sheets but not much of a jib.
If he had pointed his tiller towards the danger when it first appeared, he would have tacked and been on his way in the other direction. There are some very serious clouds in the background that might indicate some sort of down burst so maybe there is more to this story than can be seen here. He might have just not been looking, long before the ferry came along and got caught with full sails up.
It is really hard to deal with an overpowered boat, Steve.
If he had pointed his tiller towards the danger when it first appeared, he would have tacked and been on his way in the other direction. There are some very serious clouds in the background that might indicate some sort of down burst so maybe there is more to this story than can be seen here. He might have just not been looking, long before the ferry came along and got caught with full sails up.
It is really hard to deal with an overpowered boat, Steve.
Re: Sydney harbor close call
Steve
The local papers reported this happened during a squall and the ferry was in a channel and could not alter course without running on the reef
I think inexperience crew with a lackadaisical captain
I always check the weather before I leave the mooring even for a 2 hour sail
Was the headsail poled out??
Wish there was another video maybe we could figure out more
The local papers reported this happened during a squall and the ferry was in a channel and could not alter course without running on the reef
I think inexperience crew with a lackadaisical captain
I always check the weather before I leave the mooring even for a 2 hour sail
Was the headsail poled out??
Wish there was another video maybe we could figure out more
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Re: Sydney harbor close call
If he tried passing behind the ferry, the weather helm stopped him from turning to port. That leaves the better option (in hindsight) of turning to starboard, which is way less intuitive (at least to me). I suspect he tried passing behind the ferry and when that didn't work, he tried harder.
Rounding up, his forward progress (i.e., toward the side of the ferry) would have been less than a couple of boat lengths, a move it appears he had room for.
Rounding up, his forward progress (i.e., toward the side of the ferry) would have been less than a couple of boat lengths, a move it appears he had room for.
Fair winds, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
Re: Sydney harbor close call
Maybe it was as simple as the Coriolis effect (counter clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere and clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere) which, acting upon his fin keel, kept spinning him to port, therefore into the path of the ferry.
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
-
- Posts: 4367
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 17:25
- Location: s/v LIQUIDITY, CD28. We sail from Marina Bay on Boston Harbor. Try us on channel 9.
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Re: Sydney harbor close call
Sounds far fetched to me. I am told though, from a reliable source, that when you cross the Equator your winches ratchet in the opposite direction.Jim Walsh wrote:Maybe it was as simple as the Coriolis effect (counter clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere and clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere) which, acting upon his fin keel, kept spinning him to port, therefore into the path of the ferry.
Fair winds, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
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Re: Sydney harbor close call
I have sailed that harbor. Those ferries are Big and they have the right of way. They seldom make concessions. As soon as they see you and determine that you really are a danger to yourself, they start blowing their horns. Nothing more disconcerting then looking aft and seeing this large island bearing down on you. In Sydney harbor you learn to tack and tack quick.
John
John
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Re: Sydney harbor close call
A Ty in Sydney harbor with the opera house in the background. How cool is that?
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time