Hi all,
Because I knew I was going to be travelling most of the month of Nov., I hired the boat yard to winterize Allia this year. The bill came, and I went down this weekend to admire their professional handywork.
The problem is, they didn't do it. The head is frozen solid, same for the bilge, water tank and holding tank (which was never pumped -- part of the deal).
I can only assume that the engine was never flushed.
Can anyone offer me advice on what I should do? The Yard, so far, has been saying all the right things. They are sorry and planned on putting heaters in the boat today then winterizing.
Is it too late? Is my engine shot, hull cracked, water systems destroyed?
EW
woodman_eric@emc.com
water system frozen
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Chris
Re: water system frozen
Eric - I am not sure what damage may have been caused but would offer two suggestions.
1 - Call your insurance company and ask if they would like to view the boat before the yard begins their corrective measures. This will document the yards failures and assist you in recovering damages should problems be found in the spring.
2 - If the insurance company declines to survey the boat then take photos of the visible issues. Request duplicates of the photos and attach them to a letter address to the yard. The letter should list all of the work you contracted to have been performed and all of the contraindications you have found to suggest the work was not performed. This will again strengthen your position when springtime comes along and something is found to be damaged.
1 - Call your insurance company and ask if they would like to view the boat before the yard begins their corrective measures. This will document the yards failures and assist you in recovering damages should problems be found in the spring.
2 - If the insurance company declines to survey the boat then take photos of the visible issues. Request duplicates of the photos and attach them to a letter address to the yard. The letter should list all of the work you contracted to have been performed and all of the contraindications you have found to suggest the work was not performed. This will again strengthen your position when springtime comes along and something is found to be damaged.
eric wrote: Hi all,
Because I knew I was going to be travelling most of the month of Nov., I hired the boat yard to winterize Allia this year. The bill came, and I went down this weekend to admire their professional handywork.
The problem is, they didn't do it. The head is frozen solid, same for the bilge, water tank and holding tank (which was never pumped -- part of the deal).
I can only assume that the engine was never flushed.
Can anyone offer me advice on what I should do? The Yard, so far, has been saying all the right things. They are sorry and planned on putting heaters in the boat today then winterizing.
Is it too late? Is my engine shot, hull cracked, water systems destroyed?
EW
-
Warren Kaplan
Re: water system frozen
It would help if you have a signed, dated and written contract specifying the work that was to be done, by what date, and when the boat was hauled. I would also document with dates furnished as to what has been going on so if spring comes and there is damage you can "prove" their negligence. Hopefully nothing was damaged but I'll tell you this...when spring comes I would get everything "surveyed" by a professional surveyor and make mention what happened. All the plumbing has to be checked for leaks (perhaps under pressure if that can be done) even if no leaks are obvious. Also make sure that the that machanical parts, pumps etc., haven't been bent or damaged by ice pressure. Whats that old saying..."if you want something done right you have to do it yourself."
Warren
Setsail728@aol.com
Warren
Setsail728@aol.com
-
Neil Gordon
Re: water system frozen
You won't know if there's damage until the spring. Document everything and communicate in writing with the yard. Potentially, this is a very expensive mistake... you might want a lawyer involved to protect your interests.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
-
Bill Goldsmith
Re: water system frozen
Eric,
Sorry to hear about the boatyard screwup. It is possible that the ice did not damage any of the systems and that a heater will melt everything and allow them to winterize the boat like they should have. On the other hand there may be significant damage. You will need a special survey, at the boatyard's expense, to identify the extent of the damage. You may not know the full extent of the damage, if any, until spring commissioning. Do not sit back and accept the yard's assurances that everything is ok--by next spring it could be all your problem. You need to act now, even if it turns out later on that the damage was miniscule.
You should immediately notify your insurance agent or company claim hotline. You should also find out who insures the boatyard and notify their insurance company. Keep a neat file with the bill and all the documentation you will be amassing. Make copies to submit to insurers and keep the originals. Keep notes of conversations. Go to the boat and take photographs of the bilge and head and any other ice that is visible. Preferably with one of those date-stamping cameras. Draft a memo to yourself of every statement made to you and who made it, as well as any other salient facts. You will have to give verbal and possibly written statements to either or both insurers, so become their friends and give them all the detail you can think of (hence the memo to jog your memory and ensure you consistently remember the facts.)
Most of all, be firm but patient. Don't antagonize the insurance companies but be agressive with your rights. That will get you the most mileage in your claim.
The preferable way to proceed would be for your insurer to agree to effect any and all repairs, and then pursue a subrogation claim against the boatyard and its insurer. The better you document your case the more your insurer will like you because it makes their subro claim easier to pursue.
Do not accept any offered lump sum settlement. Rather, do not sign a relaease until an independent surveyor confirms that all repairs are done. You may want to request that the insurer keep its file open until next spring, until the engine in particular can be evaluated fully.
I wouldn't worry too much about spoiling whatever relationship you may have had with the yard staff. They obviously were not very worried about your business. Most of all, the squeaky wheel gets the grease in these matters so be persistent.
Good luck,
Bill Goldsmith
goldy@bestweb.net
Sorry to hear about the boatyard screwup. It is possible that the ice did not damage any of the systems and that a heater will melt everything and allow them to winterize the boat like they should have. On the other hand there may be significant damage. You will need a special survey, at the boatyard's expense, to identify the extent of the damage. You may not know the full extent of the damage, if any, until spring commissioning. Do not sit back and accept the yard's assurances that everything is ok--by next spring it could be all your problem. You need to act now, even if it turns out later on that the damage was miniscule.
You should immediately notify your insurance agent or company claim hotline. You should also find out who insures the boatyard and notify their insurance company. Keep a neat file with the bill and all the documentation you will be amassing. Make copies to submit to insurers and keep the originals. Keep notes of conversations. Go to the boat and take photographs of the bilge and head and any other ice that is visible. Preferably with one of those date-stamping cameras. Draft a memo to yourself of every statement made to you and who made it, as well as any other salient facts. You will have to give verbal and possibly written statements to either or both insurers, so become their friends and give them all the detail you can think of (hence the memo to jog your memory and ensure you consistently remember the facts.)
Most of all, be firm but patient. Don't antagonize the insurance companies but be agressive with your rights. That will get you the most mileage in your claim.
The preferable way to proceed would be for your insurer to agree to effect any and all repairs, and then pursue a subrogation claim against the boatyard and its insurer. The better you document your case the more your insurer will like you because it makes their subro claim easier to pursue.
Do not accept any offered lump sum settlement. Rather, do not sign a relaease until an independent surveyor confirms that all repairs are done. You may want to request that the insurer keep its file open until next spring, until the engine in particular can be evaluated fully.
I wouldn't worry too much about spoiling whatever relationship you may have had with the yard staff. They obviously were not very worried about your business. Most of all, the squeaky wheel gets the grease in these matters so be persistent.
Good luck,
Bill Goldsmith
eric wrote: Hi all,
Because I knew I was going to be travelling most of the month of Nov., I hired the boat yard to winterize Allia this year. The bill came, and I went down this weekend to admire their professional handywork.
The problem is, they didn't do it. The head is frozen solid, same for the bilge, water tank and holding tank (which was never pumped -- part of the deal).
I can only assume that the engine was never flushed.
Can anyone offer me advice on what I should do? The Yard, so far, has been saying all the right things. They are sorry and planned on putting heaters in the boat today then winterizing.
Is it too late? Is my engine shot, hull cracked, water systems destroyed?
EW
goldy@bestweb.net
-
Matt Cawthorne
Re: water system frozen
Eric,
One of the potental trouble spots is the holding tank. Is your holding tank built into the keel? If so, ice could conceivably do serious damage. Not only that, but puting heaters into the boat will not melt a chunk of ice like that. They need to tent the hull and heat the keel. If no damage is yet done and they do not get the lovely stuff out of there it could do damage later on when it melts and re-freezes. I have seen what ice can do to distort a bronze seacock and would not want those forces working on my hull. Try taking a bag of something that will work chemically (like salt) and add it to the tank and pump it out as soon as it re-liquifies. Is the boat on the ground and if so are they going to be able to pump it out? If not, make them move the boat or make them rig up a pump to clean it out. Don't let it sit inside the boat. If you can't get them to do it hook your manual bilge pump up to the tank and pump it out (the smell will help remind the boatyard that they messed up). Most other things can be taken care of with money, but you do not want to question the integrity of the hull.
Additionally, make certain that your seacocks are left in the open position. I left one closed one year and the ice forced portions of the tapered plug into the housing and the resulting bulged plug could not be opened......ever. When it was pulled out of the boat it took a sledge to get the tapered plut out. Needless to say, a new seacock was required.
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
One of the potental trouble spots is the holding tank. Is your holding tank built into the keel? If so, ice could conceivably do serious damage. Not only that, but puting heaters into the boat will not melt a chunk of ice like that. They need to tent the hull and heat the keel. If no damage is yet done and they do not get the lovely stuff out of there it could do damage later on when it melts and re-freezes. I have seen what ice can do to distort a bronze seacock and would not want those forces working on my hull. Try taking a bag of something that will work chemically (like salt) and add it to the tank and pump it out as soon as it re-liquifies. Is the boat on the ground and if so are they going to be able to pump it out? If not, make them move the boat or make them rig up a pump to clean it out. Don't let it sit inside the boat. If you can't get them to do it hook your manual bilge pump up to the tank and pump it out (the smell will help remind the boatyard that they messed up). Most other things can be taken care of with money, but you do not want to question the integrity of the hull.
Additionally, make certain that your seacocks are left in the open position. I left one closed one year and the ice forced portions of the tapered plug into the housing and the resulting bulged plug could not be opened......ever. When it was pulled out of the boat it took a sledge to get the tapered plut out. Needless to say, a new seacock was required.
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
-
Larry DeMers
Re: water system frozen
Eric,
Oh brother, what a way to wrap up the season, huh? Well, the info given so far is spot-on. Do it..don't put it off nor rationalize. Document this case as if it were going to a jury trial, and you needed to show proof of incompetant help.
I would allow the yard to use their heaters to warm the boats interior, and work from the most dangerous situation down to the least dangerous situation. Ie; the bilge area..if it has any water in it, it will have frozen. Now that in itself is not terrible, as the bilge opens up as you go up towards the sole, so as the ice freezes, it expands up wards. If that area were closed off and there was no expansion room, then one could expect that the ice would create a crack or two in the keel. Engine is next. This is where I fear that dmagae may have been done already..depends on how cold you have gotten so far..below freezing a bit..or below zero, like up here in NW Wisc. Neither are particularly good for the boat, but the sub zero stuff is worse of course.
Holding tanks are next. That is the worst smelling stuff.. we had a friend who had the same problem with their boat. The yard did nothing that he had asked. The tank split, and 60 gallons of lovely smelling stuff found it's way all ove rthe boats lower hull interior, and keel. It was a whole summer getting the smell out. THe engine had some freeze plugs blown, the impellor and pump body were toasted, and he had to replace a lot of water lines to the galley, and head etc.
Which boat do you have and where was the marina at? How low in temp have you seen so far this year?
What a shame..
Good Luck,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
Oh brother, what a way to wrap up the season, huh? Well, the info given so far is spot-on. Do it..don't put it off nor rationalize. Document this case as if it were going to a jury trial, and you needed to show proof of incompetant help.
I would allow the yard to use their heaters to warm the boats interior, and work from the most dangerous situation down to the least dangerous situation. Ie; the bilge area..if it has any water in it, it will have frozen. Now that in itself is not terrible, as the bilge opens up as you go up towards the sole, so as the ice freezes, it expands up wards. If that area were closed off and there was no expansion room, then one could expect that the ice would create a crack or two in the keel. Engine is next. This is where I fear that dmagae may have been done already..depends on how cold you have gotten so far..below freezing a bit..or below zero, like up here in NW Wisc. Neither are particularly good for the boat, but the sub zero stuff is worse of course.
Holding tanks are next. That is the worst smelling stuff.. we had a friend who had the same problem with their boat. The yard did nothing that he had asked. The tank split, and 60 gallons of lovely smelling stuff found it's way all ove rthe boats lower hull interior, and keel. It was a whole summer getting the smell out. THe engine had some freeze plugs blown, the impellor and pump body were toasted, and he had to replace a lot of water lines to the galley, and head etc.
Which boat do you have and where was the marina at? How low in temp have you seen so far this year?
What a shame..
Good Luck,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
eric wrote: Hi all,
Because I knew I was going to be travelling most of the month of Nov., I hired the boat yard to winterize Allia this year. The bill came, and I went down this weekend to admire their professional handywork.
The problem is, they didn't do it. The head is frozen solid, same for the bilge, water tank and holding tank (which was never pumped -- part of the deal).
I can only assume that the engine was never flushed.
Can anyone offer me advice on what I should do? The Yard, so far, has been saying all the right things. They are sorry and planned on putting heaters in the boat today then winterizing.
Is it too late? Is my engine shot, hull cracked, water systems destroyed?
EW
demers@sgi.com
-
eric
Re: water system frozen
The boat is in Beverly, Mass. at the Beverly Port Marina. It's the first time I have used them (the last yard billed me 2x for hauling, storage and launching then tried to claim it was my fault.)
It's been well below freezing for several days. Probably in the 15-30 degree range for at least 5 days, maybe more. All the H2O on the boat was solid as a rock when I was aboard on Saturday.
ew
woodman_eric@emc.com
It's been well below freezing for several days. Probably in the 15-30 degree range for at least 5 days, maybe more. All the H2O on the boat was solid as a rock when I was aboard on Saturday.
ew
Larry DeMers wrote: Eric,
Oh brother, what a way to wrap up the season, huh? Well, the info given so far is spot-on. Do it..don't put it off nor rationalize. Document this case as if it were going to a jury trial, and you needed to show proof of incompetant help.
I would allow the yard to use their heaters to warm the boats interior, and work from the most dangerous situation down to the least dangerous situation. Ie; the bilge area..if it has any water in it, it will have frozen. Now that in itself is not terrible, as the bilge opens up as you go up towards the sole, so as the ice freezes, it expands up wards. If that area were closed off and there was no expansion room, then one could expect that the ice would create a crack or two in the keel. Engine is next. This is where I fear that dmagae may have been done already..depends on how cold you have gotten so far..below freezing a bit..or below zero, like up here in NW Wisc. Neither are particularly good for the boat, but the sub zero stuff is worse of course.
Holding tanks are next. That is the worst smelling stuff.. we had a friend who had the same problem with their boat. The yard did nothing that he had asked. The tank split, and 60 gallons of lovely smelling stuff found it's way all ove rthe boats lower hull interior, and keel. It was a whole summer getting the smell out. THe engine had some freeze plugs blown, the impellor and pump body were toasted, and he had to replace a lot of water lines to the galley, and head etc.
Which boat do you have and where was the marina at? How low in temp have you seen so far this year?
What a shame..
Good Luck,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
eric wrote: Hi all,
Because I knew I was going to be travelling most of the month of Nov., I hired the boat yard to winterize Allia this year. The bill came, and I went down this weekend to admire their professional handywork.
The problem is, they didn't do it. The head is frozen solid, same for the bilge, water tank and holding tank (which was never pumped -- part of the deal).
I can only assume that the engine was never flushed.
Can anyone offer me advice on what I should do? The Yard, so far, has been saying all the right things. They are sorry and planned on putting heaters in the boat today then winterizing.
Is it too late? Is my engine shot, hull cracked, water systems destroyed?
EW
woodman_eric@emc.com
-
Larry Demers
Re: water system frozen
Wow, you are having a bit of bad luck with marinas right now. Well, honestly, if it were me, I would treat this situation as if the weather had gotten to zero, and therefore ice expansion has taken place. This is the damaging force that you worry about.
Warm the engine compartment up and watch for water dripping out of any problem areas and freeze plugs if fit. If there is none, you still need to do a complete lookover in the process of winterizing the engine. Winterizing for you will include removing the thermostat from the housing before putting in the antifreeze, in order to get in to the cooling chambers (since you can't run the engine to get it to a temperature that will open the thermostat on it's own).
Boy, I wish you luck with this. You would be wise to talk with a lawyer informally, just to get the options straight, as well as how to approach this problem.
Larry DeMers
demers@sgi.com
Warm the engine compartment up and watch for water dripping out of any problem areas and freeze plugs if fit. If there is none, you still need to do a complete lookover in the process of winterizing the engine. Winterizing for you will include removing the thermostat from the housing before putting in the antifreeze, in order to get in to the cooling chambers (since you can't run the engine to get it to a temperature that will open the thermostat on it's own).
Boy, I wish you luck with this. You would be wise to talk with a lawyer informally, just to get the options straight, as well as how to approach this problem.
Larry DeMers
eric wrote: The boat is in Beverly, Mass. at the Beverly Port Marina. It's the first time I have used them (the last yard billed me 2x for hauling, storage and launching then tried to claim it was my fault.)
It's been well below freezing for several days. Probably in the 15-30 degree range for at least 5 days, maybe more. All the H2O on the boat was solid as a rock when I was aboard on Saturday.
ew
Larry DeMers wrote: Eric,
Oh brother, what a way to wrap up the season, huh? Well, the info given so far is spot-on. Do it..don't put it off nor rationalize. Document this case as if it were going to a jury trial, and you needed to show proof of incompetant help.
I would allow the yard to use their heaters to warm the boats interior, and work from the most dangerous situation down to the least dangerous situation. Ie; the bilge area..if it has any water in it, it will have frozen. Now that in itself is not terrible, as the bilge opens up as you go up towards the sole, so as the ice freezes, it expands up wards. If that area were closed off and there was no expansion room, then one could expect that the ice would create a crack or two in the keel. Engine is next. This is where I fear that dmagae may have been done already..depends on how cold you have gotten so far..below freezing a bit..or below zero, like up here in NW Wisc. Neither are particularly good for the boat, but the sub zero stuff is worse of course.
Holding tanks are next. That is the worst smelling stuff.. we had a friend who had the same problem with their boat. The yard did nothing that he had asked. The tank split, and 60 gallons of lovely smelling stuff found it's way all ove rthe boats lower hull interior, and keel. It was a whole summer getting the smell out. THe engine had some freeze plugs blown, the impellor and pump body were toasted, and he had to replace a lot of water lines to the galley, and head etc.
Which boat do you have and where was the marina at? How low in temp have you seen so far this year?
What a shame..
Good Luck,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Larry DeMers wrote:eric wrote: Hi all,
Because I knew I was going to be travelling most of the month of Nov., I hired the boat yard to winterize Allia this year. The bill came, and I went down this weekend to admire their professional handywork.
The problem is, they didn't do it. The head is frozen solid, same for the bilge, water tank and holding tank (which was never pumped -- part of the deal).
I can only assume that the engine was never flushed.
Can anyone offer me advice on what I should do? The Yard, so far, has been saying all the right things. They are sorry and planned on putting heaters in the boat today then winterizing.
Is it too late? Is my engine shot, hull cracked, water systems destroyed?
EW
demers@sgi.com
-
Warren Kaplan
Re: water system frozen
Larry,
I think Eric may be able to winterize his engine by running it for a while the way I did. Instructions courtesy of Jerry J. Commisso who graciously sold me his CD 27 so he could buy a CD30 like you have. You can do it without removing the thermostat. I got a 5 gallon bucket and put a few gallons of antifreeze in the bucket. I pulled the hose off the raw water intake of my YSM8 engine and stuck it in the bucket of antifreeze for the intake. There is a hose that goes from the thermostat to the mixing elbow. I pulled the hose off at the thermostat and replaced it with a section of hose that I also placed into the bucket of antifreeze as the outlet. I plugged up the hose still attached to the mixing elbow with something, in this case the handle from my manual bilge pump fit perfectly, to prevent the cabin filling with exhaust fumes. You now have a full circle. Antifreeze is sucked into the system from the hose that was attached to the raw water intake and is returned to the bucket via the hose from the thermostat. Round and round she goes. When the antifreeze coming out of the return hose from the thermostat gets hot (about 15-20 minutes), you know the thermostat has opened. Let it circulate for a while so it get throught the entire engine. Then stop the engine. Re- attach the original hose from the thermostat to the mixing elbow and start it again. Now the antifreeze will come out the exhaust port in the transom. When you see that, shut off the engine and your engine is winterized. Certainly this is usually done with the boat still in the water but because it is a "closed loop" it can be done on the hard.
Warren
Setsail728@aol.com
I think Eric may be able to winterize his engine by running it for a while the way I did. Instructions courtesy of Jerry J. Commisso who graciously sold me his CD 27 so he could buy a CD30 like you have. You can do it without removing the thermostat. I got a 5 gallon bucket and put a few gallons of antifreeze in the bucket. I pulled the hose off the raw water intake of my YSM8 engine and stuck it in the bucket of antifreeze for the intake. There is a hose that goes from the thermostat to the mixing elbow. I pulled the hose off at the thermostat and replaced it with a section of hose that I also placed into the bucket of antifreeze as the outlet. I plugged up the hose still attached to the mixing elbow with something, in this case the handle from my manual bilge pump fit perfectly, to prevent the cabin filling with exhaust fumes. You now have a full circle. Antifreeze is sucked into the system from the hose that was attached to the raw water intake and is returned to the bucket via the hose from the thermostat. Round and round she goes. When the antifreeze coming out of the return hose from the thermostat gets hot (about 15-20 minutes), you know the thermostat has opened. Let it circulate for a while so it get throught the entire engine. Then stop the engine. Re- attach the original hose from the thermostat to the mixing elbow and start it again. Now the antifreeze will come out the exhaust port in the transom. When you see that, shut off the engine and your engine is winterized. Certainly this is usually done with the boat still in the water but because it is a "closed loop" it can be done on the hard.
Warren
Setsail728@aol.com
-
M. R. Bober
Won't you tell us the name of the yard?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Regrets,
Mitchell Bober
RESPITE
CD330
Regrets,
Mitchell Bober
RESPITE
CD330
-
Dan H.
Re: water system frozen
Eric,
First let me add my sympathy for your situation. I think you have received an abundance of good advice here and that Bill Goldsmith provides an excellent roadmap for you to follow regarding protecting your investment and your legal rights. As for immediate action to minimize damage, I would suggest that you instruct the yard to move the boat to an indoor heated facility where it can thaw and then dry out completely over a period of days or even weeks. The yards plan to put heaters in the boat could be a recipe for disaster. Not all ice will melt, not all moisture will be removed and refreezing will make matters worse yet. Since you have told us who the yard is, they may be interested in knowing this boating community is watching to see if they "do the right thing". Good luck. Keep us posted.
djhhan@aol.com
First let me add my sympathy for your situation. I think you have received an abundance of good advice here and that Bill Goldsmith provides an excellent roadmap for you to follow regarding protecting your investment and your legal rights. As for immediate action to minimize damage, I would suggest that you instruct the yard to move the boat to an indoor heated facility where it can thaw and then dry out completely over a period of days or even weeks. The yards plan to put heaters in the boat could be a recipe for disaster. Not all ice will melt, not all moisture will be removed and refreezing will make matters worse yet. Since you have told us who the yard is, they may be interested in knowing this boating community is watching to see if they "do the right thing". Good luck. Keep us posted.
Bill Goldsmith wrote: Eric,
Sorry to hear about the boatyard screwup. It is possible that the ice did not damage any of the systems and that a heater will melt everything and allow them to winterize the boat like they should have. On the other hand there may be significant damage. You will need a special survey, at the boatyard's expense, to identify the extent of the damage. You may not know the full extent of the damage, if any, until spring commissioning. Do not sit back and accept the yard's assurances that everything is ok--by next spring it could be all your problem. You need to act now, even if it turns out later on that the damage was miniscule.
You should immediately notify your insurance agent or company claim hotline. You should also find out who insures the boatyard and notify their insurance company. Keep a neat file with the bill and all the documentation you will be amassing. Make copies to submit to insurers and keep the originals. Keep notes of conversations. Go to the boat and take photographs of the bilge and head and any other ice that is visible. Preferably with one of those date-stamping cameras. Draft a memo to yourself of every statement made to you and who made it, as well as any other salient facts. You will have to give verbal and possibly written statements to either or both insurers, so become their friends and give them all the detail you can think of (hence the memo to jog your memory and ensure you consistently remember the facts.)
Most of all, be firm but patient. Don't antagonize the insurance companies but be agressive with your rights. That will get you the most mileage in your claim.
The preferable way to proceed would be for your insurer to agree to effect any and all repairs, and then pursue a subrogation claim against the boatyard and its insurer. The better you document your case the more your insurer will like you because it makes their subro claim easier to pursue.
Do not accept any offered lump sum settlement. Rather, do not sign a relaease until an independent surveyor confirms that all repairs are done. You may want to request that the insurer keep its file open until next spring, until the engine in particular can be evaluated fully.
I wouldn't worry too much about spoiling whatever relationship you may have had with the yard staff. They obviously were not very worried about your business. Most of all, the squeaky wheel gets the grease in these matters so be persistent.
Good luck,
Bill Goldsmith
eric wrote: Hi all,
Because I knew I was going to be travelling most of the month of Nov., I hired the boat yard to winterize Allia this year. The bill came, and I went down this weekend to admire their professional handywork.
The problem is, they didn't do it. The head is frozen solid, same for the bilge, water tank and holding tank (which was never pumped -- part of the deal).
I can only assume that the engine was never flushed.
Can anyone offer me advice on what I should do? The Yard, so far, has been saying all the right things. They are sorry and planned on putting heaters in the boat today then winterizing.
Is it too late? Is my engine shot, hull cracked, water systems destroyed?
EW
djhhan@aol.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: water system frozen
Hi Warren & Eric,
Your idea is a good one, and would certainly be a good way to winterize out of the water. The only concern I would have is that the exhaust hose itself is cooled by the water from the engine, and running the engine that long without any cooling of the hose has been reported to cause problems with melting of the hose, etc. This was apparently not the case for you however, so now I am curious about how hot that hose actually gets when run without water for cooling.
When I was surveying my boat before purchase, I had the yard start and run the engine, in -20 deg. weather. I figured that if they could start the engine in that temp. then the compression, batteries and fuel system were good enough. What they did was to recover the antifreeze that was pumped out the back end, and hand it back up to the mechanic in the cabin, who poured it back into the bucket that was supplying the engine it's coolant.
But your idea is a better one, if there indeed is no danger to overheating the exhaust hose.
Did you notice any smell of hot hose or see any problems after this procedure was done?
Thanks..& Holiday Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~It's so cold out, we have to melt our words before
they can be heard!!~~~
demers@sgi.com
Your idea is a good one, and would certainly be a good way to winterize out of the water. The only concern I would have is that the exhaust hose itself is cooled by the water from the engine, and running the engine that long without any cooling of the hose has been reported to cause problems with melting of the hose, etc. This was apparently not the case for you however, so now I am curious about how hot that hose actually gets when run without water for cooling.
When I was surveying my boat before purchase, I had the yard start and run the engine, in -20 deg. weather. I figured that if they could start the engine in that temp. then the compression, batteries and fuel system were good enough. What they did was to recover the antifreeze that was pumped out the back end, and hand it back up to the mechanic in the cabin, who poured it back into the bucket that was supplying the engine it's coolant.
But your idea is a better one, if there indeed is no danger to overheating the exhaust hose.
Did you notice any smell of hot hose or see any problems after this procedure was done?
Thanks..& Holiday Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~It's so cold out, we have to melt our words before
they can be heard!!~~~
Warren Kaplan wrote: Larry,
I think Eric may be able to winterize his engine by running it for a while the way I did. Instructions courtesy of Jerry J. Commisso who graciously sold me his CD 27 so he could buy a CD30 like you have. You can do it without removing the thermostat. I got a 5 gallon bucket and put a few gallons of antifreeze in the bucket. I pulled the hose off the raw water intake of my YSM8 engine and stuck it in the bucket of antifreeze for the intake. There is a hose that goes from the thermostat to the mixing elbow. I pulled the hose off at the thermostat and replaced it with a section of hose that I also placed into the bucket of antifreeze as the outlet. I plugged up the hose still attached to the mixing elbow with something, in this case the handle from my manual bilge pump fit perfectly, to prevent the cabin filling with exhaust fumes. You now have a full circle. Antifreeze is sucked into the system from the hose that was attached to the raw water intake and is returned to the bucket via the hose from the thermostat. Round and round she goes. When the antifreeze coming out of the return hose from the thermostat gets hot (about 15-20 minutes), you know the thermostat has opened. Let it circulate for a while so it get throught the entire engine. Then stop the engine. Re- attach the original hose from the thermostat to the mixing elbow and start it again. Now the antifreeze will come out the exhaust port in the transom. When you see that, shut off the engine and your engine is winterized. Certainly this is usually done with the boat still in the water but because it is a "closed loop" it can be done on the hard.
Warren
demers@sgi.com
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Warren Kaplan
Re: water system frozen
Larry,
I confess I never considered that the exhaust hose might overheat but having said that, I did not smell any "rubber burning" during the entire procedure. So either I got lucky, or it isn't a problem...at least on a little YSM8.
One detail I left out of my original description was this. When I pulled the hose off the raw water seacock for the intake, obviously the hose is too short to reach into a bucket of antifreeze. So, I have about a 3 foot piece of hose with a piece or copper tubing stuck into one end. The other end of the copper tubing fits snugly into the hose that I pulled off the raw water seacock. That "extension" is actually the intake. When I'm done I store both the intake extension hose and the outlet hose in the engine compartment.
Warren
Setsail728@aol.com
I confess I never considered that the exhaust hose might overheat but having said that, I did not smell any "rubber burning" during the entire procedure. So either I got lucky, or it isn't a problem...at least on a little YSM8.
One detail I left out of my original description was this. When I pulled the hose off the raw water seacock for the intake, obviously the hose is too short to reach into a bucket of antifreeze. So, I have about a 3 foot piece of hose with a piece or copper tubing stuck into one end. The other end of the copper tubing fits snugly into the hose that I pulled off the raw water seacock. That "extension" is actually the intake. When I'm done I store both the intake extension hose and the outlet hose in the engine compartment.
Warren
Setsail728@aol.com
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Eric
Re: Won't you tell us the name of the yard?
Beverly Port Marina
M. R. Bober wrote: Inquiring minds want to know.
Regrets,
Mitchell Bober
RESPITE
CD330