Thinking of making a circumnavigation on a cape dory 28
What kind of modifications have people made to make the cape dory 28
a true blue water boat ?
Have added:
steel post under mast, seals to cockpit lockers, changed rigging
up one size, post in cabin.
Concerns are how strong is the cabin in case of roll over.
Ports look nice but they are attached via a rollpin which looks
pretty weak. How about storm shutters and how to attach them so they look good.
Thru hulls drain slowly - how about sealing them off and opening
the back to allow a flow thru - sort of like a flying sucthman type arrangement.
What do people think ????
Dave
flea@xvslink.com
circumnavigation
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Jon Larson
Re: circumnavigation
Dave,
Wow, that might be a first for a CD28!
I changed the standing rigging on PERI last year, the upgrade in size to the next size rigging was pretty reasonable, all things considered. I stayed with what Carl Alberg had originally designed, however. I think part of rigging design is designing the order of failure, should one occur. If you should be in a situation of extreme stress, I'd much rather have the mast rail than to have a piece of the deck pulled off. Staying afloat is the very highest order of priorities. I think if you were to check a number of other production 30 foot boats you'd see that the rigging on CD's is already staunch.
Yup, I'd also seal those cockpit hatches, fix the companion way boards so they can't fall out, etc.
I'm not sure about the adding of posts under the coach and mast step, that might be necessary or it might not. You may wish to contact a naval architect and see if he'd give you a free opinion on that. You may also have created the need for that by increasing the size of the standing rigging.
Faster draining for the cockpit would certainly be a plus, but anything faster is better, why seal the ones you've already got? If you drain to the stern, better make sure that you're not creating a situation where water can come in, also.
I'm not sure how I'd set up emergency covers for the ports should one fail. I know Cape Dory's have made significant voyages, one 36, at least, has circumnavigated with those ports and must have made some kind of provision. I'd guess that the glass would go and some kind of through bolt arrangement with a backing piece of lumber in side and a sealing board on the outside could do that. It wouldn't be watertight, but it sure would make a difference, by that time, everything in the boat is going to be wet anyhow. We did have a CD30 come to one CDOA rendezvous this past year that had two Panama Canal transits under her keel, I didn't see any special mods for the opening ports.
They did add a wind vane, I'd think that would be a must.
What are you bringing for ground tackle? All chain is always recommended especially in tropical areas with coral which means a winch, etc.
Hey, good luck, keep us all posted!
Jon Larson
Cape Dory 30 PERI
San Francisco Bay
jon9@ix.netcom.com
Wow, that might be a first for a CD28!
I changed the standing rigging on PERI last year, the upgrade in size to the next size rigging was pretty reasonable, all things considered. I stayed with what Carl Alberg had originally designed, however. I think part of rigging design is designing the order of failure, should one occur. If you should be in a situation of extreme stress, I'd much rather have the mast rail than to have a piece of the deck pulled off. Staying afloat is the very highest order of priorities. I think if you were to check a number of other production 30 foot boats you'd see that the rigging on CD's is already staunch.
Yup, I'd also seal those cockpit hatches, fix the companion way boards so they can't fall out, etc.
I'm not sure about the adding of posts under the coach and mast step, that might be necessary or it might not. You may wish to contact a naval architect and see if he'd give you a free opinion on that. You may also have created the need for that by increasing the size of the standing rigging.
Faster draining for the cockpit would certainly be a plus, but anything faster is better, why seal the ones you've already got? If you drain to the stern, better make sure that you're not creating a situation where water can come in, also.
I'm not sure how I'd set up emergency covers for the ports should one fail. I know Cape Dory's have made significant voyages, one 36, at least, has circumnavigated with those ports and must have made some kind of provision. I'd guess that the glass would go and some kind of through bolt arrangement with a backing piece of lumber in side and a sealing board on the outside could do that. It wouldn't be watertight, but it sure would make a difference, by that time, everything in the boat is going to be wet anyhow. We did have a CD30 come to one CDOA rendezvous this past year that had two Panama Canal transits under her keel, I didn't see any special mods for the opening ports.
They did add a wind vane, I'd think that would be a must.
What are you bringing for ground tackle? All chain is always recommended especially in tropical areas with coral which means a winch, etc.
Hey, good luck, keep us all posted!
Jon Larson
Cape Dory 30 PERI
San Francisco Bay
flea wrote: Thinking of making a circumnavigation on a cape dory 28
What kind of modifications have people made to make the cape dory 28
a true blue water boat ?
Have added:
steel post under mast, seals to cockpit lockers, changed rigging
up one size, post in cabin.
Concerns are how strong is the cabin in case of roll over.
Ports look nice but they are attached via a rollpin which looks
pretty weak. How about storm shutters and how to attach them so they look good.
Thru hulls drain slowly - how about sealing them off and opening
the back to allow a flow thru - sort of like a flying sucthman type arrangement.
What do people think ????
Dave
jon9@ix.netcom.com
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B. Andrews
Re: circumnavigation
Have a look at the March '98 Cruising World, page 39. The article offers advice from James Baldwin, a sailor who modified a Pearson Triton for solo circumnavigation. Good luck. BAflea wrote: Dave
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: circumnavigation.... Rollovers
Dave,
Why not keep it from rolling over in the first place? We use our CD36 for some offshore work (ie Bermuda) and one piece of equipment that I will not go without is the series drogue. It was a real pain to make, but I suspect it will prevent most rollover situations from developing. Along with it install a flapper valve for the exhaust to keep following seas from flooding the engine.
Three years ago on our way to Bermuda we were hit by a gale for about 18 hours. Our anemometer died so I can only guess at wind speeds. We were sailing on a beam reach in seas which I estimate reached 25 feet. With just the staysail up we were making 6.5 knots.
We didn't need to go to the storm sails, or use the drogue, but it was nice knowing that they were there. The cockpit filled about half way two times. Since we were in the gulf stream the water was comfortable and it seemed like the cockpit drained very quickly.
You will want lots of anchors. Big ones with lots of chain. If you don't have room or money for three anchors then you will need to buy at least four!
How about upgrade the roll pins to dowel pins?
I have installed some little dead-bolt mechanisms into the hatch boards to minimize the chances of them being washed out.
Ventilation can be very important. I have upgraded the cowels on the Patrica Louise to much larger units. I have also installed a solar powered ventilator for the engine compartment.
If you plan to ever use your Ice box (I suspect that refrigeration is out of the question) then tear it out and install insulation. Lots of insulation.
If you don't have a dodger then get one or make one. That is one creature comfort that is a must.
A steering vane is probably another must have item.
Most of all go! I met a couple who had been cruising for about 4 years when I was last in Bermuda. Their boat was a very salty thing. They couldn't have paid much for it. All of the yachties looked down at them as they didn't even have a working head. They were out living the cruising life that I dream of and they did it on a budget of 1/20th of what most would probably spend. Patricia and I were planning an extended cruising adventure two years ago. We were going to take our time and do it right. A truck ran a red light and she is gone. I wish we had spent less time planning........
Just go,
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
Why not keep it from rolling over in the first place? We use our CD36 for some offshore work (ie Bermuda) and one piece of equipment that I will not go without is the series drogue. It was a real pain to make, but I suspect it will prevent most rollover situations from developing. Along with it install a flapper valve for the exhaust to keep following seas from flooding the engine.
Three years ago on our way to Bermuda we were hit by a gale for about 18 hours. Our anemometer died so I can only guess at wind speeds. We were sailing on a beam reach in seas which I estimate reached 25 feet. With just the staysail up we were making 6.5 knots.
We didn't need to go to the storm sails, or use the drogue, but it was nice knowing that they were there. The cockpit filled about half way two times. Since we were in the gulf stream the water was comfortable and it seemed like the cockpit drained very quickly.
You will want lots of anchors. Big ones with lots of chain. If you don't have room or money for three anchors then you will need to buy at least four!
How about upgrade the roll pins to dowel pins?
I have installed some little dead-bolt mechanisms into the hatch boards to minimize the chances of them being washed out.
Ventilation can be very important. I have upgraded the cowels on the Patrica Louise to much larger units. I have also installed a solar powered ventilator for the engine compartment.
If you plan to ever use your Ice box (I suspect that refrigeration is out of the question) then tear it out and install insulation. Lots of insulation.
If you don't have a dodger then get one or make one. That is one creature comfort that is a must.
A steering vane is probably another must have item.
Most of all go! I met a couple who had been cruising for about 4 years when I was last in Bermuda. Their boat was a very salty thing. They couldn't have paid much for it. All of the yachties looked down at them as they didn't even have a working head. They were out living the cruising life that I dream of and they did it on a budget of 1/20th of what most would probably spend. Patricia and I were planning an extended cruising adventure two years ago. We were going to take our time and do it right. A truck ran a red light and she is gone. I wish we had spent less time planning........
Just go,
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Douglas McMullin
Re: circumnavigation.... Rollovers
"Why not keep it from rolling over in the first place? We use our CD36 for some offshore work (ie Bermuda) and one piece of equipment that I will not go without is the series drogue. It was a real pain to make, but I suspect it will prevent most rollover situations from developing."
A drouges and sea anchors are essential offshore tools! They can greatly reduce knockdowns and rollovers, but do not prevent them.
I know of 2 boats that have been knocked down while a sea anchor was deployed (I was on one). I have read of boats that rolled 360 while towing a drouge. Rouge waves and other conditions do a good job foiling our best protection... (other than not being there!)
dmcm@pctech.net
A drouges and sea anchors are essential offshore tools! They can greatly reduce knockdowns and rollovers, but do not prevent them.
I know of 2 boats that have been knocked down while a sea anchor was deployed (I was on one). I have read of boats that rolled 360 while towing a drouge. Rouge waves and other conditions do a good job foiling our best protection... (other than not being there!)
dmcm@pctech.net
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chuck yahrling
Re: circumnavigation
I'm adding larger cockpit drains to my CD-27. The designer I consulted recommended large (2 to 2 1/2") drains directly thru the rear of the cockpit, sloping down and out the transom, with flappers on the outside. No cocks or below waterline holes; in fair weather screw caps or bungs on the inside could be used if it got sloppy inside.flea wrote: Thinking of making a circumnavigation on a cape dory 28
What kind of modifications have people made to make the cape dory 28
a true blue water boat ?
Have added:
steel post under mast, seals to cockpit lockers, changed rigging
up one size, post in cabin.
Concerns are how strong is the cabin in case of roll over.
Ports look nice but they are attached via a rollpin which looks
pretty weak. How about storm shutters and how to attach them so they look good.
Thru hulls drain slowly - how about sealing them off and opening
the back to allow a flow thru - sort of like a flying sucthman type arrangement.
What do people think ????
Dave
Having removable fore and backstays attaching at the spreaders for extra margin when heaving-to under storm sails was also recommended, as was the installation of at least one bilge pump that could be operated from the inside when hove-to.
yahrling@cybertours.com
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Derek Hillen
Re: circumnavigation.... Rollovers
I am planning on taking off this fall in my CD 33. And I will just go. However, between now and then I have been extremely busy researching/planning etc. One really good book I have come across that changed my mind about sea anchors is: "DDDB Drag Device Data Base," by Victor Shane. This guy makes the Para-Anchor brand and one could argue he has a vested interest in promoting the use of his brand. However, this is not a book of one fanatic's opinions but a database of stories submitted by a whole range of vessels including ones that were successful in using a sea anchor or drogue (they're different, by the way) and those that weren't.
For 24 bucks this spiral bound book is well worth the investment. His conclusions are that the two most important factors in deploying a sea anchor and the areas where most get it wrong are 1) size - it has to big enough to "pull your boat through the waves" 2) rode - it has to be long enough (300-400ft) to act as a shock absorber.
I haven't used one of these yet and hopefully will not need to but I won't leave shore without it.
Cheers.
Derek
"Galileo"
For 24 bucks this spiral bound book is well worth the investment. His conclusions are that the two most important factors in deploying a sea anchor and the areas where most get it wrong are 1) size - it has to big enough to "pull your boat through the waves" 2) rode - it has to be long enough (300-400ft) to act as a shock absorber.
I haven't used one of these yet and hopefully will not need to but I won't leave shore without it.
Cheers.
Derek
"Galileo"
Douglas McMullin wrote: "Why not keep it from rolling over in the first place? We use our CD36 for some offshore work (ie Bermuda) and one piece of equipment that I will not go without is the series drogue. It was a real pain to make, but I suspect it will prevent most rollover situations from developing."
A drouges and sea anchors are essential offshore tools! They can greatly reduce knockdowns and rollovers, but do not prevent them.
I know of 2 boats that have been knocked down while a sea anchor was deployed (I was on one). I have read of boats that rolled 360 while towing a drouge. Rouge waves and other conditions do a good job foiling our best protection... (other than not being there!)
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: circumnavigation.... Rollovers...correction
I regret having used the word "prevent" in the original reply. If I could fix the original I would change the words to "greatly reduce the chances of". You are correct. When it comes to the sea NOTHING is guaranteed. In my defense I did use the word "most"
I have noticed that our CD36 tacks back and fourth through some very large angles while at anchor. Once when a squall line came through the anchor plowed through the softk mud about 30 feet before setting more solidly and the boat went broadside to the wind. This may be why the coast guard studies have recommended towing a series drogue from the stern and not the bow. The forward motion acting on the rudder would help keep the boat pointed down wind. If a boat were to present her side (even at a 45 degree angle) to a nasty enough wave then we all would expect a rollover. I don't have all of the answers so for now I will follow the C.G. recommendations.
Sorry for using the word "prevent".
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I have noticed that our CD36 tacks back and fourth through some very large angles while at anchor. Once when a squall line came through the anchor plowed through the softk mud about 30 feet before setting more solidly and the boat went broadside to the wind. This may be why the coast guard studies have recommended towing a series drogue from the stern and not the bow. The forward motion acting on the rudder would help keep the boat pointed down wind. If a boat were to present her side (even at a 45 degree angle) to a nasty enough wave then we all would expect a rollover. I don't have all of the answers so for now I will follow the C.G. recommendations.
Sorry for using the word "prevent".
Matt
Douglas McMullin wrote: "Why not keep it from rolling over in the first place? We use our CD36 for some offshore work (ie Bermuda) and one piece of equipment that I will not go without is the series drogue. It was a real pain to make, but I suspect it will prevent most rollover situations from developing."
A drouges and sea anchors are essential offshore tools! They can greatly reduce knockdowns and rollovers, but do not prevent them.
I know of 2 boats that have been knocked down while a sea anchor was deployed (I was on one). I have read of boats that rolled 360 while towing a drouge. Rouge waves and other conditions do a good job foiling our best protection... (other than not being there!)
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Zeida
Re: circumnavigation.... Rollovers
I happen to own a CD 33, commissioned in 1982. I bought her from a second owner, just over 7 months ago. Of course, I am looking to exchange experiences with any other CD33 owner... I have made a series of small improvements, but they are mainly for making cruising more comfortable. Anyway, comments and ideas are always welcome.
Zeida.
planning on taking off this fall in my CD 33. And I will just go. However, between now and then I have been extremely busy researching/planning etc. One really good book I have come across that changed my mind about sea anchors is: "DDDB Drag Device Data Base," by Victor Shane. This guy makes the Para-Anchor brand and one could argue he has a vested interest in promoting the use of his brand. However, this is not a book of one fanatic's opinions but a database of stories submitted by a whole range of vessels including ones that were successful in using a sea anchor or drogue (they're different, by the way) and those that weren't.
zcecil@ibm.net
Zeida.
planning on taking off this fall in my CD 33. And I will just go. However, between now and then I have been extremely busy researching/planning etc. One really good book I have come across that changed my mind about sea anchors is: "DDDB Drag Device Data Base," by Victor Shane. This guy makes the Para-Anchor brand and one could argue he has a vested interest in promoting the use of his brand. However, this is not a book of one fanatic's opinions but a database of stories submitted by a whole range of vessels including ones that were successful in using a sea anchor or drogue (they're different, by the way) and those that weren't.
Derek Hillen wrote: For 24 bucks this spiral bound book is well worth the investment. His conclusions are that the two most important factors in deploying a sea anchor and the areas where most get it wrong are 1) size - it has to big enough to "pull your boat through the waves" 2) rode - it has to be long enough (300-400ft) to act as a shock absorber.
I haven't used one of these yet and hopefully will not need to but I won't leave shore without it.
Cheers.
Derek
"Galileo"
Douglas McMullin wrote: "Why not keep it from rolling over in the first place? We use our CD36 for some offshore work (ie Bermuda) and one piece of equipment that I will not go without is the series drogue. It was a real pain to make, but I suspect it will prevent most rollover situations from developing."
A drouges and sea anchors are essential offshore tools! They can greatly reduce knockdowns and rollovers, but do not prevent them.
I know of 2 boats that have been knocked down while a sea anchor was deployed (I was on one). I have read of boats that rolled 360 while towing a drouge. Rouge waves and other conditions do a good job foiling our best protection... (other than not being there!)
zcecil@ibm.net